My daughter does not want to go to grammar

[Scarletbutnotohara]

This is my first post and this group was recommended to me by a friend as an anonymous place to post rather than ask on Facebook!
She also told me to post in this section, not sure why but hope I’m doing it right!!
My daughter is in year 6 and will be going to secondary school in September.
She has got a place at a top grammar school. This was something she had wanted since year 4 after we started looking at schools to think ahead. We looked at schools as suggested by her school as to what would suit our daughter.
She loved the grammar and worked even harder to work towards the 11+, which she passed and consequently was offered a place at her first choice school.
In the last month she has made it very clear that she has changed her mind and doesn’t want to go there now.
I know she’s being influenced by her other friends at school who are mostly carrying on in indie schools and have told her many a story about this grammar.
My daughters happiness comes first of course, but I’m at a loss at what to do. Our financial situation has changed dramatically due to covid, and to continue in another indie school would mean some serious cutbacks. It’s possible, but it will be very hard. I feel guilty that I really want her to just be happy with the grammar school, but also guilty that I’m not offering her other options- I don’t know what the options are if I’m honest. Places have been offered. We could make the cutbacks and try and find a school for her that still has places.
We could send her to the local comprehensive school. That school does have places, but it also has a terrible reputation, the ofsted is ‘requires improvement’ and it’s well known in our area for being ‘bad.’ The children there stand outside smoking and a few times I’ve walked past, I’ve seen spitting, swearing and general bad behaviour. On top of that, the school has a high turnover of staff.
I’ve asked my daughter what she actually wants to do and where does she want to go. She says ‘anywhere but the grammar.’
Any advice please?
Am I being unfair to insist she tries out the grammar school and say if it doesn’t work out after a term, we can reconsider?
Is another 7 years of school fees Worth having to sell our second property that we currently rent out? (I Would feel awful for our amazing tenants- a lovely family)
Other good state schools are full with long waiting lists and they are nowhere near us. If she is worried about bullying at the grammar, I can’t consider out local comp as I’m sure it would be worse there!!
All advice welcome and Thankyou

The children there stand outside smoking and a few times I’ve walked past, I’ve seen spitting, swearing and general bad behaviour

This will happen at grammar and independent schools as well. It wasn't so obvious at my grammar as the teachers told us where to smoke so we wouldn't be seen by parents.

I had one with a scholarship place but they pleaded not to go so went to the local comp. instead where they did well academically and socially because it was where they wanted to be.

That’s different as they made a positive choice of where they wanted to be. OP’s DD hasn’t really made any choice - just a negative one because her friends are filling her head with a lot of nonsense.

@listershologram

There will be bullying, smoking and swearing at all secondary schools.

This. They do it at my dd's school, they did it at my school (a small, strict Catholic school) and they do it at the 'posh' school in the 'best' part of town. If you think the kids won't be doing any of that because it's a grammar, I think you're in for a shock.

Stick with the grammar.

Have found sometimes those paying for education slag off non fee paying options to justify their own outlay and their kids will pick up on that.

If she’s broadly social she will make new friends very quickly. Dd2 year 7 now in a lovely new group. Both mine kept only one or none old primary pal so I wouldn’t put store by that.

Don’t beat yourself up. She’s 11 she doesn’t see the bigger picture. Yes listen to her but ultimately you are the parents with the wider view.

I was the only girl who went to the grammar from my school. About 10 passed but only me abd 2 boys went. The others all preferred to go with their friends to the big comprehensive on the edge of town. For quite a while I wanted to as well, I didn’t want to leave my frievds or be seen as different. There was a lot of “urgh snobby grammar” pressure tim all the other kids too

Went to the grammar and never regretted it

She absolutely goes to the grammar!

I think it’s potentially dangerous to commit to moving her after a term or so if she really doesn’t like it. A year perhaps. That said a friend of mine sent her son to a Vg school (indie) that he did not want to go to, said he had to stick it out for a term, and he was ok there and is now in yr10.

I would however go to great lengths to get these ideas out of her head. Do you know any families at all that go there?
Are they having any kind of induction day this term?

Agree with Sympathy upthread - it's either the grammar or the state school.

My DD was similar, she knew which schools she wanted to go to but wouldn't consider others. I held my ground - you cannot possibly know how it will turn out. However if you decide to pay and it goes 'wrong' or you aren't impressed you will begrudge spending that money. Your DD may also feel under pressure to not admit she isn't happy as she will know she are making sacrifices.

You need to hold your ground here and you need to tell her that she cannot go to the indie - that you just don't have the money. If she knows you have options she will put you under pressure. Do not let an 11 year old do this!

Ps no grammar option where I was but my parents wanted me to go to an indie (could afford it luckily) and I wanted to go to the local comp (it wasn’t great but wasn’t terrible). As a very stubborn 11 yo I dug my heels in and refused to go to the indie.
I tell my dad all the time I wish he’d just sent me to the indie (I eventually ended up there anyway). No way did I understand the bigger picture at that age.

It’s a no brainer to me...send her to the grammar!! Why would you pay to send her somewhere else, or send her to a complete school that you obviously already don’t like?! Children don’t make the best decisions...you are the parent and therefore the final decision maker here.

Of course her friends who are not going will only have good things to say about their schools! Friendships often change anyway at this point, so don’t dwell on this as you also say she’s good at making friends.

I don’t understand the guilt thing...you’ve done way more than many parents ever do for their child’s education. She’s got an excellent opportunity that many children would love.

I went to a grammar school for secondary and remember being scared shitless (I moved from the local comprehensive). I was told all the girls have eating disorders and would be mega cliquey/bitchy; anyone who didn't get full marks in tests would get detention; bullying was rife; there would be so much homework I'd have to spend all of my free time/holidays working....it was all nonsense. There was far worse bullying at the local comprehensive, I made life long friends and while I did have to work hard I also fully participated in extra curricular stuff and had a social life too! In fact my social life soared there as being clever was seen as very uncool at the local comp so I'd been pretty unpopular. The teachers were fantastic and I thoroughly enjoyed myself. Definitely encourage your daughter to try the grammar. Maybe she will hate it but maybe she will absolutely love it and either way she needs to make the decision for herself, not be put off by second / third hand rumours.

It is a difficult age as they have strong opinions and it is right they are listened to but they so young it’s for the parent to weigh it up and make the right call.

Had similar with option choices with dd1 who now accepts we were right spanish is more useful than sociology and she now wants to do Spanish a level 😁

Stick with the grammar

So her friends haven’t got into the grammar? So not only are they jealous but also their own parents are probably saying “it doesn’t matter darling, you wouldn’t have wanted to go to the nasty grammar school anyway”.

If she gives up the grammar place then that option is basically gone for good. If she tries it and it isn’t the right fit, then she would still have a good chance of getting a place reasonably quickly at local comp or an independent.

No secondary school is going to be free of the potential for bullying and drugs. Independent schools are often awful for drugs as dealers know the children have money!

She sounds perfect for grammar, given her drive. I completely agree with the first poster about having meetings with the school to help her feel better, and you deciding to move her (if that happened) setting up a concerning precedent for quitting based on anything other than your own experiences and measured reasons.

If she is your only then yes, perhaps you will feel more inclined to acquiesce to her wishes but I do think you need to stand firm here and help her move on from what her friends say. She is still in control of herself; what her friends speak of are not inevitabilities. Teenagers are often as desirous of boundaries as babies and toddlers. They needn't be imposed at all aggressively but I think she'll thank you for giving her boundaries over this. Talk, talk, talk your way through this and encourage channels of communication that stay open throughout her schooling.

Talk to her about bullying and strategies to combat it, should it happen to her. 'Bully-proof Kids' is a good volume I read, and my DS (also Y6) loved 'Bullies, Big-mouths and So-called Friends'.

It would be awful if any new school didn't turn out as she'd hoped and you were all left feeling regret. If it's really that terrible after a year you can choose to move, but I bet she'll love it.

Ahh we were told that we’d have our heads shoved into the toilets and flushed, that we would have to stand still when the 6th year pupils wanted to walk past in the corridor, that the older kids would pee on the bus seats so we couldn’t sit down.

NONE of these things happened!

Op - not read the thread but dd was the only one in her primary going to a grammar school. Some went private and the majority were going to the same boys/girls school. Like you dd had really wanted to go to thr grammar since year 4 and worked hard to get in.
She changed her mind in the last few months of year 6 and the settling in day in the summer term put her off the grammar even more.
However I continued to sing its praises and remind her why she wanted to go etc.
She's now in year 12 at the grammar and has never regretted it. I can see how it doesn't suit everyone but fortunately it was the right place for dd. I'm so glad I didn't buckle when she got cold feet.

My husband thinks it’s just a normal wobble over moving up.

I think he’s right. It is also very late in the day to be changing her mind and finding somewhere else. Her friends seem to be filling her head with a lot of nonsense about a school that they’ve not attended and know little about.

I assume the school she attends now stops at 11. Is she the only leaver going to the grammar school? If she knows literally no-one else going, it can be scary. Though if the school has a wide catchment, there will be others in the same boat. Could there be anyone from her sporting activities who attends and could put her mind at rest? Does the school have any activities for new pupils in the summer term? Is there any way of meeting other potential pupils before she goes?

I certainly wouldn’t feel guilty about sending her to a school she previously loved. And you shouldn’t overstretch yourselves to continue with private school based on the nonsense rumours of some silly 11 year olds.

Agree with everyone else, also y7 is a big friendship change year, wherever she goes she is likely to have different friends by the end of it.

I have had a similar issues, I just kept reiterating the best points of the school move and that it was the best thing for my child. They have never looked back and it was the best decision. Somethings can not be left to a child to decide. Also if grammar really doesn't fit her she can transfer to the comp, if she starts at the comp she has no where else to go.

Also slightly concerning you are hand wringing and feeling guilty. I hope you don’t let her be rude to you? I see this with friends and it’s sad to see parents doing their absolute best and little Verruca Salts being unappreciative and rude in return. Awful dynamic.

The risk is whatever you do she will blame you for it not working out. The independent is out of the question when she’s got into the grammar, just don’t even entertain the idea, it’s not affordable. But if you send her to the comp and it doesn’t go well then she could blame you when she’s older for not parenting and for listening to her whims. If you do grammar first then you can switch to the comp. Don’t be her short term friend in this, be her long term parent. X

Your daughters views are important but you need to remove the burden of decision making from her little 11 year old shoulders. Time for you to be the adult and parent.

I don't mean 'dictate' in the way a PP put it, but you definitely need to make it clear that whilst you've listened to her concerns, it would not be sensible or in her best interests to pass up this amazing opportunity because of second or third hand rumours from a bunch of children. I hate the phrase but this is a 'teachable moment' about peer pressure, about evaluating the quality of evidence put before us when making decisions, about the long term consequences of our actions etc etc. Run through all that with her, and then be clear that on balance of all the above, you have decided she is going to the grammar.

Oh, bless her.

It sounds like her friends are disappointed she is not continuing on with them and trying to manipulate the situation so she stays in the clumsy way 11 year olds do.

Speak to the new school, they will have a teacher who manages year 6 to 7 transition. Her anxieties are genuine but not based on fact but rather a mythology about state schools that reinforce the idea that independent or public schools are better. As you said, this is one of the best grammar schools in the country and it will be lovely. It won't be the teachers first rodeo and he/she will be able to formulate a transition plan to aid her understandable anxiety.

There is no choice here really, it is just about managing her apprehension and expectations. It is completely usual to fear the unknown, bit not always accurate.

I agree with everyone here in that she goes to the grammar. She is 11, she doesn't get to make life long decisions at her age. Keep talking to her, maybe get the school to also chat /do a tour etc. No way should you be selling your home etc to fund a school. She is having a wobble, just keep talking and reassuring her.

Not in the UK but was in this position last year with a child moving from primary to secondary. We had two choices, one where the vast majority of her friends were going and a totally new fresh start in another school. She had always wanted to go to the school where nobody else was going but last year she wobbled a lot. Lots of the others were making her feel bad for going elsewhere and it was amazing the in depth knowledge some of these kids had about the school she wanted to go to! When Covid hit and we all went home we all wobbled with our choice a bit and there were a few weeks where we all started to lean towards the other school. We thought it might be easier in what we expected to be a tricky year to go where she would know lots of people. Amazingly, it was her that came back to the initial plan ahead of dh and I. She has never looked back and that's having had the full second term at home remote learning. She has made new friends, loves the dynamic in the school and is very happy. Wobbles are normal, even for you but I think you have to trust your gut on this. Eventually we realised that the absolute worst that might happen was she may not like the school and not settle and in that case we would look at moving. Best of luck with the decision!