My daughter does not want to go to grammar

[Scarletbutnotohara]

This is my first post and this group was recommended to me by a friend as an anonymous place to post rather than ask on Facebook!
She also told me to post in this section, not sure why but hope I’m doing it right!!
My daughter is in year 6 and will be going to secondary school in September.
She has got a place at a top grammar school. This was something she had wanted since year 4 after we started looking at schools to think ahead. We looked at schools as suggested by her school as to what would suit our daughter.
She loved the grammar and worked even harder to work towards the 11+, which she passed and consequently was offered a place at her first choice school.
In the last month she has made it very clear that she has changed her mind and doesn’t want to go there now.
I know she’s being influenced by her other friends at school who are mostly carrying on in indie schools and have told her many a story about this grammar.
My daughters happiness comes first of course, but I’m at a loss at what to do. Our financial situation has changed dramatically due to covid, and to continue in another indie school would mean some serious cutbacks. It’s possible, but it will be very hard. I feel guilty that I really want her to just be happy with the grammar school, but also guilty that I’m not offering her other options- I don’t know what the options are if I’m honest. Places have been offered. We could make the cutbacks and try and find a school for her that still has places.
We could send her to the local comprehensive school. That school does have places, but it also has a terrible reputation, the ofsted is ‘requires improvement’ and it’s well known in our area for being ‘bad.’ The children there stand outside smoking and a few times I’ve walked past, I’ve seen spitting, swearing and general bad behaviour. On top of that, the school has a high turnover of staff.
I’ve asked my daughter what she actually wants to do and where does she want to go. She says ‘anywhere but the grammar.’
Any advice please?
Am I being unfair to insist she tries out the grammar school and say if it doesn’t work out after a term, we can reconsider?
Is another 7 years of school fees Worth having to sell our second property that we currently rent out? (I Would feel awful for our amazing tenants- a lovely family)
Other good state schools are full with long waiting lists and they are nowhere near us. If she is worried about bullying at the grammar, I can’t consider out local comp as I’m sure it would be worse there!!
All advice welcome and Thankyou

Just talk to her. Tell her the truth. Ask her what's been said. Tell her that's not the case. Tell her the other girls have said stuff about the grammar that's just not true, and you think she'll love it, and you can go and see it again.
Get her involved in meeting the other grammar girls, open days, Skype groups. I'll make a couple of friends immediately and then she'll be happy.

In the end the Indy isn't gonna work for you anyway. you now can't afford it, this is fine, just tell her so!

these are the girls pfftt.

I had that wobble at exactly the same age. My mother listened to me. Sent me to the school I very suddenly announced I wanted to go to. I hated it, painted myself into a corner and, it's the main regret of my life. I know that sounds dramatic but that's the way it is

Don't commit yourself to independent school fees for the next 7 years if it's going to stretch you financially. In any case, it's not your choice alone - it's yours and your DH's, and he's already made his view clear.

Tell her it's the grammar or the comprehensive. And that you'll pull her out of the grammar and send her to the comprehensive if she's unhappy there after a year.

I'm sorry if you've said this already, but do you know anyone with children who are going to the grammar? She's probably apprehensive about leaving her friends behind so if she could meet some girls who were going to the grammar, she might feel better about it.

I wouldn’t sell your second property as that could be your pension (or part of the pot) maybe talk to her and say you can’t afford private school, the grammar is the next best thing.

Stick with the grammar.

I think you should make her go to the grammar for a year, and tell her that if she hates it after that she can go to a private school.

I went to a pretty rough state secondary school OP and I would sell a kidney before I send one of my DC to one. I can only imagine that they’re even worse these days.

Sometimes we need to be the parents and make our children do things they don’t want because we as adults know what’s best (easy for me to say that by the way - I’m terrible at it in practice!).

Oh and if she’s interested in going to Oxbridge, you can tell her she’s got a much better chance coming from a grammar school than a private school.

Absolutely send her to the grammar school, & although it sounds harsh it is not up to her to decide as it is your decision to make as her parents. She will get an education second to none and will of course meet new friends.

My daughter was the only one from her school to go to the grammar which was an hour's bus ride away. So she didn't know anyone else but within a week of starting had met lots of new friends, and signed up for lots of sports clubs/activities She thrived in that environment and her school days were happy and fulfilling, culminating in attending a top notch university & graduating with a first class degree which has enabled her to have an excellent career.

Look at her long term future rather than being influenced by her current mindset!

I agree it's just a wobble. I did this, all my friends went to a different school and I was the only one from my school going to a different secondary school and I was terrified but it was the best thing to happen to me.

I was your daughter. We had a 13+ system so I was at a Secondary Modern where the top 20% of kids were offered a place at Grammar for years 9 upwards. I claimed I wanted to stay with all my friends. Cried and tantrummed for at least the first two terms of Grammar school.
I didn’t mean any of it. I was just scared of change. And the Grammar school was the best thing that ever happened to me.

@SpamTasesNice
You dictate

Absolutely not this. Not at her age. Have a proper conversation. If she doesn’t want to go she has to have real proper reasons not to go. So treat her like an adult with a say.

As for kids smoking and swearing outside school , that happens EVERYWHERE. that really had no bearing in the school at all. That’s what KIDS do. I know people from public, private, and elite schools and I have to tell you in my experience, the behaviour of those with money and privilege is FAR worse than those at the local public school.

Stick with the grammar school. She’s worked hard and she deserves to see that rewarded with the place at grammar. Every child has worries about moving to secondary. I had no choice but the local comprehensive, and I was terrified I’d be bullied mercilessly. It was all just stories told by older kids and those moving to private schools to frighten us.

I think that with some people who know nothing but independent/fee paying schools, other routes of education are looked down on and my guess is that these kids saying these things to your daughter are picking this up from their parents.

In fact, it sounds like she loves to work hard and prove herself and have a goal to work towards. If I were you, I would plan two day trips - one to Oxford and one to Cambridge. Have a look around the colleges, go and watch the rowing on the river, go punting, have a picnic at Port Meadow, etc - I bet you she will come back talking about nothing else than getting into Oxford or Cambridge one day! And tell her that by far her best chance of achieving that is by going to the grammar.

Sometimes I think if you broaden children’s horizons a bit and show them something new away from the small world that they know, then it can really change their perspective about things.

While it’s important to listen to kids, it’s also important to remember she has no idea what any secondary school is like. It’s all theoretical and probably very scary right now. All she knows is she won’t be with her current friends, You know it’s going to be the best place for her - stand firm.

It would be NUTS to send her to a crappy comprehensive or sell your house based on the opinions of a bunch of 10/11 year old snobby well off children . Why are you even considering it?! Tell her she is going to the grammar and don't give the impression that she gets to choose. She is only 10 or 11 and will have no idea about whether a school she hasn't even been to will suit her for the next few years.

I'd be honest and tell her you cant afford private, the local comprehensive wont be a good fit so she tries the grammar for a year and see how it goes.

I agree with others . Send her to the grammar and say after a year if she really hates it you will talk again . I heard all sorts of rumours about my secondary school before I went and I was dreading it . Feeling sick .

It was all lies .

I agree with your husband, it's a wobble. She's lucky to have this opportunity, so let her try it before sticking her in a dreadful school!

In the nicest way possible, none of us care how wonderful/confident/sporty your daughter is- and it's not at all relevant to your question or to what you need to do to resolve your problem.

You've already fucked up by letting her think there's a chance she'll get her way here. You SHOULD have, from the start, treated it as the ridiculous request it is - the same way you'd act if she'd asked for three ponies or diamond shoes. "Darling that's ridiculous, we can't afford that and even if we could, it wouldn't happen - it's neither reasonable nor practical." It's not too late. You just have to say that you made a mistake by letting her think she had a choice here, and that you absolutely won't be indulging this nonsense any further.

It seems like your daughter runs you, which is awful for you and even worse for her. Children who run their parents turn into absolutely awful adults. If you love her, you'll stop this nonsense now.

I would tell her that theyre making up stories and thats not fair for them to lie just to get her to go to their school.
That she won her place in the grammar school fair and square. That its normal to second guess your decision and have fears and worries before a significant change, but shes going to the grammar school. Reassure that what it doesnt mean, is that she would have to stay there forever if for whatever reason it was awful and everyone were ogres and bullies, and obviously you wouldnt stand for that, but the likliehood is that it would be nothing like that, and she will make friends and be in the best place to excel and shine

Maybe if you find cobfronational dialogue with her a bit challenging - my daughter can give really compelling arguments and knows how to tug my strings.
I think if you tell her that you respect what shes saying and are impressed with how much shes researched it and how eloquently she argued her case, that you obviously are the final decision maker and that you absolutely insists she gives grammar a chance and thats your final word and if shes cross with you then thats a shame, but doesnt change anything.
Repeat that youre not discussing it.

@HappyDaysToCome

So her friends haven’t got into the grammar? So not only are they jealous but also their own parents are probably saying “it doesn’t matter darling, you wouldn’t have wanted to go to the nasty grammar school anyway”.

Spot on!

And also...guilt is a wasted emotion as a parent. You do what is best at the time.

This.

The world is very likely to not get a lot better in the next few years. The economy is crushed, and if you are feeling financial pressure now, then it might get better, but it might also get worse. It would be far, far worse if you start her in a fee paying school and then have to withdraw her part way through her time there. She may be young, but she isn't a baby; and she is old enough to understand the conversation, but in the end I think it's a choice that you make - not her. At this age, the world will come crashing down if she doesn't get her own way. That will last for all of a week or two at worst. The choice that you make will last years, whatever choice it is - and in the end I would personally opt for being confident that I had the spare money to add enrichment on top of school, rather than risk impoverishing everyone for a school.

I feel for you. This new chapter in your child's life is such a big step for them.

My DD got a place at a specialist school, which happened to be almost local to us and would save us a small fortune in training costs. She only went because she recognised that it was a fantastic opportunity and that she might regret it if she didn't try it. One of her main worries, completely unfounded, was that she wouldn't be able to see her friends and the friendships would dwindle. She's 24 now and 2 of her closest friends are friends from her first school.

I told her she should give the specialist school her best shot for a year. If she then absolutely hated it and was completely miserable she would go to the same school as her friends, if she still wasn't sure she, should do one more year and then decide.

She went to the specialist school and after a tricky time for about the first fortnight she loved it. She now says she was glad she was pushed into it as it gave her confidence to be more independent and broadened her horizons.

I would also say give her an element of choice, but I would absolutely make it clear what options are on the table, and that saying “anything but the grammar” suggests that she may not be mature enough to make this decision and she needs to be thinking about the alternatives. If that’s just the local comp then so be it- and maybe you could take her to visit it with an open mind. Absolutely do not send her to independent school if you’re not confident you can afford to see it through. I would also say that if there isn’t a sensible, affordable, alternative sending her to the grammar for a year to see how it goes would be fine.

OP I too agree with everyone else to send her to the grammar.

I knew a child in a similar position to your DD. I taught her privately on her instrument in her prep school which went up to 13. At the last minute, with zero preparation her DP put her in for the 11+ and she passed but was on the waiting list. A place very quickly came up and she was offered it, around the end of March of y6. She was unsure so they asked if I could show her round as I also worked as a class teacher in the grammar school. I showed her & mum round, sang its praises blah blah and they accepted the place. She was put into the same class as my DD1 as they played in the same orchestra to help her settle in. My DD didn't know anyone else (apart from me).

The prep school was really angry at losing both a clever child and the fees for 2 years. They dripped a load of poison into her about how she's be Head Girl in y8, awarded scholarships for this that & the other. They invited her on their sport/music tour in October of y7. The Head of the grammar asked my opinion, knowing she wasn't very settled. I said that he shouldn't allow her to go, but give her longer to build friendships at the grammar. He ignored me but was a wanker of a Head and gave her time off. Lo & behold, staff & pupils of the prep worked on her and she left the grammar at Christmas to go back to the prep. However, she wasn't made Head Girl. She did get a 10% scholarship at at extortionate boarding school - think £30k+ per year - but she only stayed until the end of y11 and moved to another less extortionate one for 6th form. My DD went straight through the grammar, had a fantastic time and is finishing her masters at Cambridge.

In my case, the school had a vested interest in keeping her there. The other kids wanted her to stay so spouted all sorts of bullshit at the girl.

OP, if you can find someone who went from her school to the grammar who could chat to her, or ask the grammar if there is someone local who could meet your DD and chat with her, it might help to reassure her. However, you are the parents, you know best and I think you and she are in an enviable position which it would be a real shame to lose.