My daughter does not want to go to grammar

[Scarletbutnotohara]

This is my first post and this group was recommended to me by a friend as an anonymous place to post rather than ask on Facebook!
She also told me to post in this section, not sure why but hope I’m doing it right!!
My daughter is in year 6 and will be going to secondary school in September.
She has got a place at a top grammar school. This was something she had wanted since year 4 after we started looking at schools to think ahead. We looked at schools as suggested by her school as to what would suit our daughter.
She loved the grammar and worked even harder to work towards the 11+, which she passed and consequently was offered a place at her first choice school.
In the last month she has made it very clear that she has changed her mind and doesn’t want to go there now.
I know she’s being influenced by her other friends at school who are mostly carrying on in indie schools and have told her many a story about this grammar.
My daughters happiness comes first of course, but I’m at a loss at what to do. Our financial situation has changed dramatically due to covid, and to continue in another indie school would mean some serious cutbacks. It’s possible, but it will be very hard. I feel guilty that I really want her to just be happy with the grammar school, but also guilty that I’m not offering her other options- I don’t know what the options are if I’m honest. Places have been offered. We could make the cutbacks and try and find a school for her that still has places.
We could send her to the local comprehensive school. That school does have places, but it also has a terrible reputation, the ofsted is ‘requires improvement’ and it’s well known in our area for being ‘bad.’ The children there stand outside smoking and a few times I’ve walked past, I’ve seen spitting, swearing and general bad behaviour. On top of that, the school has a high turnover of staff.
I’ve asked my daughter what she actually wants to do and where does she want to go. She says ‘anywhere but the grammar.’
Any advice please?
Am I being unfair to insist she tries out the grammar school and say if it doesn’t work out after a term, we can reconsider?
Is another 7 years of school fees Worth having to sell our second property that we currently rent out? (I Would feel awful for our amazing tenants- a lovely family)
Other good state schools are full with long waiting lists and they are nowhere near us. If she is worried about bullying at the grammar, I can’t consider out local comp as I’m sure it would be worse there!!
All advice welcome and Thankyou

@MarthaGinyard

The children there stand outside smoking and a few times I’ve walked past, I’ve seen spitting, swearing and general bad behaviour

Somehow I doubt that.

I don't doubt it at all - regular occurrence at a school near me.

She's 10. She doesnt get to decide. In the future IF there was a problem you could consider alternatives. She will probably be fine.

She is our only child and we've tried to give her what we didn't have ourselves

Where to start with this one. Erm - my parents did exactly this to me. When they were growing up there were a lot of opportunities which were denied to them for various reasons. My mum had been desperate to be able to go to piano lessons, dance classes, Brownies, all that sort of thing. So they went out of their way to make sure I did them all. What they forgot to do was consider my feelings or whether I really wanted to do those things or not. I begged for pony riding lessons, but they never materialised.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that she is her own person, an individual, and although you want her to have the opportunities you didn't, please don't fall into the trap of living your lives through her.

When she was in year 4 and you were starting to plan where she might go, think back and be honest with yourself. How much influence do you think your opinions of this school had on her desire to go there?

My parents had a saying: "We only want what's best for you, dear" and I loathed hearing it. Their idea of what was best and what was actually right for me were not necessarily the same thing.

@Hereforthedramaz

I was in the daughter's place in year 6 and didn't want to go to the grammar I had a place at, purely because friends were going elsewhere.

Tbh my parents never entertained a debate, I was going and that was that!

And I totally agree, firstly an 11 year old is not mature enough to make those types of decisions.

And secondly to give you peace of mind, as soon as I got there and made new friends my original opinion was long forgotten!

School choices are parent/ guardian decisions.

I would agree, my friends DD lovely independent school has now closed because of financial difficulties so choosing a independent school isn't always the safest route either.

I think remind your DD that she is the brightest of the bright and that she will meet lots of like minded people there. Also her friends will always be her friends whatever school they go to

Oh OP, every single parent struggles with guilt at times, and wonder if we're doing a decent job. I tell myself that if I care whether I'm doing it right, then I am.

And don't beat yourself up about her being an only child. You had your own reasons for that, and they are valid. We all make our decisions based on what we know and we feel at the time and your decision was undoubtedly the right one for you. Remember, there's no guarantee siblings will get on, and then she'd be telling you how it's SO UNFAIR that she has to live with her brother or sister, and how she can't do X or Y because he or she is doing Y.

Parenthood means never knowing the answers, but trying your best to figure them out...

Send her to the grammar. She’s too young to have perspective on this, and will be easily influenced by where her friends are going, which will become irrelevant very quickly.

Take her to look round the comp and then let her choose between the two if you can't afford private.

Send her to the Grammar.
I was given no choice and it was the best decision for me.

@Sillyduckseverywhere

Send her to the Grammar. I was given no choice and it was the best decision for me.

My DH was sent to a Grammar. He was given no choice and it was the worst possible decision for him.

Everybody is individual and what suited your personality will not necessarily be right for someone else.

OP, you cannot afford an independent school. The issue here is that you have, wanting the best for your child, made choices that you cannot afford. Lots of children do really well in the state sector and your child has a place at a grammar, which is the holy grail for lots of parents wanting a private education without the cost.
These friends are already showing their true colours, and arguably some low level bullying/snobbery which is an indication of how things will continue.

OP with regards having a sibling my 8 year old regularly says she wishes she didn't have a younger brother, how much better her life would be etc etc she also tries to make me promise we won't have another child (we won't). The grass is always greener. Unfortunately if given the choice DD would choose private school, nicer holidays and more extracurricular activities over her brother any day! Fortunately she doesn't get the choice!

Op I've not read the thread, unfortunately she's probably being fed into chips of shoulders of parents!

People have such issues with grammar school, their dc may not be able to get in, etc. Sometimes of course there are issues, I've personally been put off several grammars for various reasons, too serious, not diverse, and yet others have been wonderful.
Same with any school.
However I wouldn't advise the comp..

Tambora, I don't know what choices were laid before your dh, and indeed each school is different and each child is different.

I have 2 (now grown up ) daughters. One got in to a grammar the other didn’t. They have both achieved success now, but the grammar was definitely educationally better and she was with likeminded people . It’s over 10 years since they’ve left their respective schools and the peers of the grammar school daughter are definitely in a higher income bracket and have got better jobs and careers than the peers of the local comp daughter . Gaining a grammar place is a god given opportunity that shouldn’t be wasted and her future will be better for it. I also notice that attending a grammar gives a confidence that’s priceless . I wouldn’t give her the choice to not go. She’ll settle in just fine .

I was going to give some advice but sounds as if you've sorted it with your DD, OP - well done.

It is understandable that it's difficult for her - she's very young, and as the financial issues are new due to Covid, perhaps she hasn't had to be denied something she really wanted for financial reasons before. But after your talk she seems to have taken it on board.

And once she's started at the grammar, I'm sure she'll be fine.

@Puttingouthefirewithgasoline

Tambora, I don't know what choices were laid before your dh, and indeed each school is different and each child is different.

He wasn't given any choice. His older brother went there, and he had to have the same, so that was that. The fact that it was the wrong school for him was never considered.

I think it’s quite harsh to judge that as the “wrong” school for the dh though I am sure the parents were trying their best and thought they were doing right by him at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

My uncle was sent to totally the wrong school (got a full scholarship to a public school) it almost destroyed him he is still affected at 72! But my lovely grandparents thought it was best for him at the time and were blinded by the prestige - most parents would have done the same.

There is a good chance a few of friends at indie schools did the 11+ and didn't pass. They and/or parents might therefore be down playing it and this is influencing her.

Just if where you live is anything like where I live!

Yeah we had very ambitious extended family who moved to grammar school area especially for the system then the eldest didn’t get in...

One of the friends filling her head with stories didn’t get a place there

Ah the classic - "I didn't get a place, but I never wanted to go there anyway because it's rubbish". Glad you've had a productive talk with your DD.

On the only child thing - you should feel NO guilt about only having one child. You made a sensible and rational decision. You might have had a second and they'd have hated each other, or fought like cats and dogs, or been completely indifferent to each other! The grass might seem greener, but as adults we know that there is no right or wrong decision on this and every family is different. Just remember the reasons you had for only having one child and hang on to those, and set them against her rose-tinted spectacles of what having a sibling might have been like.

It's certainly true that some parents "invest" fees at the earlier stage so that their child can gain a grammar school place, hence no fees, for the longer haul of KS3; it can also "give the edge" if a university application comes from a good candidate currently at a state school.
I taught in the Junior part of an independent school (7-18), and parents talked quite openly of aiming for the local super-selective grammar school at the end of Y6, or one of the good local comprehensives. I can see how face-saving might be necessary if their son actually ended up staying put in Y7.

I know that this isn’t really relevant but I presume that your daughter would be going to what used to be called a Secondary Modern school not to a Comprehensive school, there is a huge difference!
You certainly get smoking, awful bullying and physical fights in Grammar schools - especially single sex ones.
As a secondary school teacher, who has taught in all types of school, I would send her to a true Comprehensive school and then, is she wants to, she could do the 13+ and transfer to a Grammar.