To only get socially married?

[Enormousnamechange]

Hi all

So here's the thing - DP is ambivalent about getting married (he'd do it for me but equally if we never married he'd be just as happy), and I have come to realise that all the things I want from marriage come from the social side rather than the legal side if that makes sense. I'd keep my own name regardless, and can't have kids so we won't be having any of our own, and financially I'm in a much stronger position and will likely be for the rest of my life for one reason or another. From what I know so far, getting married would if anything being a bad idea for me.

But I'd feel so sad never being someone's wife, and to grow old watching my friends get married. Never getting to do the dress and have the party. Never being able to introduce this lovely man to people as my husband. Having everyone wonder why we never got married and if we were really committed. You get the idea. But these doesn't seem like good enough reasons!

I have wondered about doing everything except the legal bit, and as no one would think they were entitled to know my legal/financial situation in any other circumstance they wouldn't need to know here either. We would live our lives after the non-legally binding ceremony exactly like any other married couple. I suppose it could 'come out' if we were to split but not need to go through a divorce.

The thing is I've never ever heard anyone else even think about doing this? It seems to totally solve my problem but I also don't know how people would feel - would they feel betrayed and lied to? But equally I feel that the particular ways in which DP and I are legally bound to each other are not other people's concern. DP's views on this are that he's bought in whatever I'd like to do and he quite likes the idea of being socially not legally married.

But what do you think? Have I lost the plot? Would you be upset/annoyed/amused if you found out you'd been to a wedding of two people who weren't legally married?

YABU - No sham weddings please
YANBU - Seems harmless enough

I was the financially stronger person owning a house and earning twice as much as DH - I married him because I loved him and wanted to share my life with him. Thats a good enough reason to get married in my book.

20 years later, he's now in a financially stronger position than me (we dont have children) - things dont always stay the same financially

Im struggling to get my head around it all tbh. If you want to call him your husband then do that, if you want a big party and a lovely dress, then have one but you still wont be married.

You're either married or you're not. He's your husband or you're not.

If you do this "socially married" thing you will still go through life never having been somebodies wife.

Wanting him to be your husband is enough. That IS the point of marriage.

Do it, call it a ceremony of commitment and get a humanist celebrant in or something. My friends had one and it was lovely.

Since you don't need legal protections that the legal side gives you then I don't see the problems at all.

I actually don’t think it’s a bad idea - the issue is if people find out and resent that you weren’t honest. But there’s no way to do it with the outcome you want and be honest at the same time. I have a friend who got married for visa reasons and tried to keep it a secret as she hated the idea of marriage- it didn’t work, everyone knows, and while most people of my generation “get” that he’s still “just” her boyfriend despite the marriage, many people of her parents’ generation don’t get it at all.

I don’t think it’s wrong though and from a financial stand point sounds like it makes more sense for you than getting married.

I hope this comes across in the way it's intended to - I think the comments saying that if we aren't married we aren't committed are being a bit obtuse. Of course we're committed, we've been together for years through some awful stuff, we live together, we support each other, we've done great things and crap things together and are the best team I've ever been a part of. I'm absolutely committed to him, and he me. Being legally married wouldn't change our level of commitment to each other - and he doesn't mind either way. It is not at all that he wants to get married and I don't, he could get excited about getting married if I wanted to, but would be just as happy not to.

I really love the idea of the commitment ceremony. For those finding my reasoning a bit weird and difficult, it basically boils down to the fact that my head says "You don't need marriage - you're the financially stronger one with more to lose, you can't have children and you're most likely to maintain good health and outlive DP. Why would you get married?!" And my heart says "I want to be married to him and for anyone who knows us to know we're each others' people". But ultimately marriage is a legal document, not a feelings document which is why I think my head has to win this one.

I do really love the commitment ceremony idea. Thank you everyone who suggested it - as I said upthread, I would hugely rather not lie to my friends for the rest of my life if it can be helped!

If you're in it for life why wouldn't you get married but both take proper legal advice and put a prenup in place? That way when you die you can pass on assets within the husband and wife exemption.

He's not your husband if you dont get married. You still won't be a wife (why you see this as better I don't know. I'm married and dont think its better than a LTR. It's just my preference ). I think when dc are involved marriage is better, generally.

Your friends and family would likely come to a commitment ceremony but would as again: why bother?. They might resent buying a present and paying for an outfit childcare taxis and overnight stays if it wasn't a lavish do. Just seems like pointless attention seeking and like you have self esteem issues. If anything a sham wedding would draw attention to your unmarried status.

People have long term partners and dont get married and the long term eventually outweighs the marriage status. For example id see partners of 20 years as more "married" than newlyweds. Live your commitment. What other people think doesn't matter.

I know marriages break up but anecdotally in my experience people who aren't married break up more often because its easier.

I suppose I think your preoccupation with what will happen to your assets if you split as evidence you don’t actually want the level of commitment that marriage is supposed to be. You’re becoming a single unit, that’s the entire idea.

@IbrahimaRedTwo

What is the definition of a common law wife? Isn't that what you would be anyway if you stayed together, Op?

It's a myth. Common law wife is not a thing and means nothing.

Not in the UK, anyway -- it does have some legal basis in certain other jurisdictions.

I'm a bit puzzled about what you term your 'social motivation' to get married, when you're now fairly upfront about the fact that neither you nor your boyfriend want to actually get married. That sounds like an odd thought pattern -- wanting 'wide social acknowledgement' of something neither of you wants to do.

For what it's worth, I really didn't want to marry DH, despite being absolutely certain he was my person, because for me the institution has a lot of unpleasant patriarchal baggage. But it mattered to him, and he'd asked often, so I married him. But with no 'wide social acknowledgement' at all -- we just went down to the register office with two witnesses, and didn't actually get around to telling anyone for ages. I'm sure lots of friends and family have no idea we're married.

If you have a lifelong commitment to each other, why wouldn’t you just get married.

If finances are the issue then get a prenup.

You may feel very differently about the legal bit if one of you is in accident and the other can’t make end of life of donation decisions because you aren’t legally next of kin, when you are paying excessive inheritance tax, or if an obscure relative appears to challenge one of your wills because you were never married and so weren't committed anyway.

If the traditional implications of giving away etc. bother you then have a civil ceremony.

I think this is a great idea OP. It sounds like you want the public acknowledgment of your commitment to each other and some of the rituals that honour that but without the stuff that comes with doing that legally. A humanist celebrant will help you to think about the ceremony and as it isn’t the legally binding bit you can do it wherever you like. Beach, mountain, etc. You can shape it completely and make the promises to each other that matter most and it can truly reflect your values.

I know people that have done similar ceremonies and then had a quick registry office thing to do the legal bit. You can just skip that bit.

The only thing that you might want to consider is that marriage can be hard. Staying in a long term relationship can have its struggles. You don’t know what life will throw at you. Being legally married puts a whole extra barrier between being together or separated. Whilst this doesn’t prevent relationships ending it can be something that helps to keep both parties trying when things get tough.

Mostly though do what feels right for the two of you.

Have a fab honeymoon first and get married there. Somewhere like Fiji [or somewhere the marriage won't be legally recognised here]

Then have a lovely reception here when you return with your husband. Job done.

I kind of get what you mean. It's not something that I have put a lot of thought into, but I also don't need the 'protection' of marrying my partner, and would be worse off if we split assets than if I stayed single. But I still like the idea of a celebration with my family and friends. You've raised some interesting points here.

@FOJN

Have a commitment ceremony and exchange rings, tell your friends and family you will be referring to each other as husband and wife from that point on. Be open and above board with it and I've no doubt most people will respect your choices.

I think many adults understand boyfriend/ girlfriend terms feel as if they trivialise long term committed relationships and perhaps partner also feels as if it doesn't reflect the intended permenance of your commitment.

I don't think it's necessary to deceive to achieve what you would like.

Absolutely this.

If you want a ceremony that is fine, as long as you are honest about it. Otherwise (in the social marriage scenario), you are gathering all your nearest and dearest and lying to them and that's not good.

I think the comments saying that if we aren't married we aren't committed are being a bit obtuse. Of course we're committed, we've been together for years through some awful stuff, we live together, we support each other, we've done great things and crap things together and are the best team I've ever been a part of. I'm absolutely committed to him, and he me. Being legally married wouldn't change our level of commitment to each other - and he doesn't mind either way

No, you're being obtuse. Legally tying yourself together in a way that makes it harder to split IS another layer of commitment. It's the point of marriage. It's what you are doing when you get up there and make the vows.
If you feel as committed as you can possibly be, that's great. But then whey do you want a fake wedding ? What would it achieve for your relationship? Nothing.

Sorry but I find this really odd and it feels like you are lying to your friends and family, which can't be a good start. If they are good friends and family that is worthwhile caring about, surely they will understand your decision not to be married. If the opinion of others matters that much to you, then get married. Just because you're married doesn't mean you have to change your name, or that you'd have to split things a certain way if you divorced.

I’d just get legally married. If your concern is people not thinking your committed “enough” then having a non-legal ceremony won’t help with that.
And I get what you’re saying about your finances, but marriage would give you the inheritance tax protection.

Common law wives or husbands are not wives or husbands. If you want him to be your husband, get married. Introducing him as your husband, which is freighted with legal meaning, when he isn't anything of the sort, is a deceit.

However would you be more upset by this lie than any other?

Generally when friends lie it doesnt cost me hundreds of pounds in clothes/travel/hotels/presents so, potentially, yes.

I remember years ago someone telling me that many Muslim weddings in the UK are not legally registered- I think it could make sense if you were religious and wanted a marriage recognised in your religion without having to do the legal stuff.
Even if this isn’t the case I think you could do it especially if you chose a venue where you can’t legally marry anyway. I’ve been to a few weddings (usually abroad) where the venue doesn’t have a licence or the couple can’t marry in that country so the actual legal bit is done in a registry office on a different day with no guests. None of the guests has ever minded that the couple aren’t getting legally married that day and it still felt like a wedding with vows gifts white dress etc. I doubt anyone checked that these couples actually went to a registry office at a later date/demanded to see the marriage certificate so I’m sure no one would notice if you never really got married.

Having said that I think you may as well just get married, with a prenup if you want the added protection

Prior to marriage I always referred to my now DH as my partner as boyfriend sounded like I was 16 .

But I do wonder how many knots you might find yourself in referring to each other as husband and wife at all times when you are not. I don't mean to friends and family but more like institutions where being married does give you different legal rights etc and they may make inaccurate assumptions.

I don't have the same surname as my DH and I suspect people make assumptions about that but we are married and being husband and wife is very different legally than being a partner therefore I am surprised you want the title with no backing.

If you’re both happy together why bother. Marriage , kids and being a family is overrated . Just do your thing and be happy .

You actually want all of the good bits without any of the risks. You want a one way commitment - to be able to say 'this is my husband' without taking the risk that this will go wrong and you might have to give him some of your money at some point. I know you say he doesn't want it, but that's not really the point.

Marriage is a state of being, freely entered into - (I may well be misquoting!) - the point is that things change because you make this commitment to another person. If you can't do it wholeheartedly (and no judgement on that) you don't get to have the social trappings. If you only go to church for weddings and don't believe in God, you can't call yourself a Christian. If you put milk in your tea but eat plant-based the rest of the time, you can't call yourself a vegan.

And I know you think you're getting a battering, but my god if you were a man suggesting this you'd be destroyed.

What you're suggesting is fundamentally dishonest. If you want to have a party to celebrate your commitment, do so. If you don't want to get married, with all that entails, then that is completely fine but you don't get to cherry pick the bits you right. You can't be slightly married, in the same way that you can't be slightly pregnant.

it seems silly to get legally bound (to the extent it would take months if not years to extricate ourselves if it went wrong)

I think this is the crux of it, OP. Marriage is a greater commitment than just living with someone because of the legal aspect. That's why it has a greater status as a marker of commitment- it's harder to extricate yourself from and a bigger risk.

This plan reminds me of an article I read about women in Japan or Korea who 'marry themselves'. They have the dress, hair, makeup, ring, a party etc, even a solitary honeymoon.. A professional photographer takes an album of photos. It costs an arm and a leg and the next day they are still single.

Marry him if you want to. Stay single if you don't but don't conflate a fancy dress and a tiara with a marriage or think it will make you husband and wife.

Op. I get it. However I'd suggest you both get good legal advice about how to set up protection for each other in the future, for things like medical dm treatment/pensions/funeral arrangements etc so that your lack of legal marital status doesn't go against you, and where marriage affords you certain automatic legal privileges.

Get those set in place, so tjat you each have the security of knowing that future situations won't cause a problem - making sure you have robust exit clauses and then gave a lovely hand fasting ceremony.

It's doable but not cheap, which is why marriage is the easier option, but I completely see why you feel that way. Then you can refer to him as your husband and legally you know you have invested time into ensuring that you are both protected and secure in the future.

That's what I would do going forward. It'll probably cost a bit, but it's probably the solution that offers the closest fit!

I think it's called a cohabitation agreement and can be tailored to your personal circumstances.

Good luck op and have a happy hand fasting!