To only get socially married?

[Enormousnamechange]

Hi all

So here's the thing - DP is ambivalent about getting married (he'd do it for me but equally if we never married he'd be just as happy), and I have come to realise that all the things I want from marriage come from the social side rather than the legal side if that makes sense. I'd keep my own name regardless, and can't have kids so we won't be having any of our own, and financially I'm in a much stronger position and will likely be for the rest of my life for one reason or another. From what I know so far, getting married would if anything being a bad idea for me.

But I'd feel so sad never being someone's wife, and to grow old watching my friends get married. Never getting to do the dress and have the party. Never being able to introduce this lovely man to people as my husband. Having everyone wonder why we never got married and if we were really committed. You get the idea. But these doesn't seem like good enough reasons!

I have wondered about doing everything except the legal bit, and as no one would think they were entitled to know my legal/financial situation in any other circumstance they wouldn't need to know here either. We would live our lives after the non-legally binding ceremony exactly like any other married couple. I suppose it could 'come out' if we were to split but not need to go through a divorce.

The thing is I've never ever heard anyone else even think about doing this? It seems to totally solve my problem but I also don't know how people would feel - would they feel betrayed and lied to? But equally I feel that the particular ways in which DP and I are legally bound to each other are not other people's concern. DP's views on this are that he's bought in whatever I'd like to do and he quite likes the idea of being socially not legally married.

But what do you think? Have I lost the plot? Would you be upset/annoyed/amused if you found out you'd been to a wedding of two people who weren't legally married?

YABU - No sham weddings please
YANBU - Seems harmless enough

[RainingBatsAndFrogs]

@BeneathYourWisdom

The tradition of wedding presents was to set up a couple starting from scratch, in the days when people moved from their parents' home into the marital home on marriage and not before

Marriage is still a financial contract, and a promise to each other witnessed by family and friends.

Wedding gifts may well have started to help a young couple set up home (or in the cases of wealthier families, to out-do each other on the lavishness of the ceremony?) But gifts are still expected today. Often dressed up as a ‘we don’t need anything but please contribute to our honeymoon or charity of our choice’ or an extravagant gift list where the cheapest item is £50.

In some cultures bank notes are pinned to the bride’s dress or showered over the couple.

A wedding without a marriage sounds very false and a bit greedy, unless you call it a party to celebrate your relationship or something!

Yes, and part of my point was that I see the current wedding emphasis on wedding presents and contributions towards lavish honeymoons to be greedy and materialistic, rather than a ceremonial and cultural ‘transition’.

I wouldn’t see gifts voluntarily given for a commitment ceremony of some kind as any more greedy than some wedding lists and cringed honeymoon requests I have seen.

[BeneathYourWisdom]

The tradition of wedding presents was to set up a couple starting from scratch, in the days when people moved from their parents' home into the marital home on marriage and not before

Marriage is still a financial contract, and a promise to each other witnessed by family and friends.

Wedding gifts may well have started to help a young couple set up home (or in the cases of wealthier families, to out-do each other on the lavishness of the ceremony?) But gifts are still expected today. Often dressed up as a ‘we don’t need anything but please contribute to our honeymoon or charity of our choice’ or an extravagant gift list where the cheapest item is £50.

In some cultures bank notes are pinned to the bride’s dress or showered over the couple.

A wedding without a marriage sounds very false and a bit greedy, unless you call it a party to celebrate your relationship or something!

[RainingBatsAndFrogs]

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@RainingBatsAndFrogs Really? Is that your kind of experience? That you were expected to find a man to support you? It's an incredibly dated idea. It didn't even apply to my generation and doesn't apply to my DDs. Most of my peers (now in their 50s and older) worked and supported themselves and didn't marry until their late 20s or older, buying their own homes and having professional jobs.

On average, men do earn more than women unless they are in the same profession working the same hours, so if they all took the approach of the OP, none would ever marry.[/quote]
I think it is the subtext of many of the endless threads and posts on MN advising women to marry , which assume that the male partner will need to financially support the woman.

Agreed much of this is due to childbearing and childcare - but SO many threads and posts assume that (beyond newborn) it will always be the woman who does this. So many posts about the woman's salary being compared to childcare costs, not both. That the mother will take sick days off from work. Men assuming that the woman will put her career on the back burner and not him, not to any extent.

As it happens I have always been the (slightly higher) earner. We co-parented - equal assumption of sick days, the mad dash to school when you get that call, taking time off to cover holidays, and covering children's parties.

My DC's Dad was the only one who covered toddler parties, or took a home made dish to a 'group picnic' when it was 'his' day to cover weekends.

Endless MN threads waiting for a man to 'propose'.

Princess stories - not just the old trad ones, but new ones.

It is all deeply, deeply ingrained.

[RainingBatsAndFrogs]

Marriage is a financial contract as well as a sacred ceremony to many people. It marks a transition, hence the traditions and gifts and parties to celebrate!

The tradition of wedding presents was to set up a couple starting from scratch, in the days when people moved from their parents' home into the marital home on marriage and not before.

[BeneathYourWisdom]

A sham wedding is just that and I’m afraid most people may see it as a fake wedding, like asking for wedding gifts, showing off a wedding gown, a first dance... yet you’re not getting married?

Marriage is a financial contract as well as a sacred ceremony to many people. It marks a transition, hence the traditions and gifts and parties to celebrate!

You may be paying for a meal, drinks and party but don’t forget a lot of wedding guests have to travel, pay for childcare and hotels, a gift, outfits etc.

[VaVaGloom]

It can cost a fortune to get married and for guests to attend so yes it would feel odd and guests would feel duped to realise it was just a celebratory party.

Why not just say we want to throw a celebration of our happiness for our family and friends. Buy a fantastic dress but not a wedding dress as that would just be weird.

[TheVamoosh]

I'm focused on what would happen when we split up

When you split up? Not ,'if'?

[BertrandRussell]

I don’t like “boyfriend” either. DP and I have used partner with no problem for 35 years. We both use our own names. Our children use both names with a hyphen. If anybody questioned our commitment based on our marital status, we’d laugh in their face. And cross them off our joint Christmas card list.

[dayslikethese1]

I don't like the word "boyfriend' either for what its worth (just sounds a bit teenage) so I call my OH partner. We've been together 10 years and like you, no kids. We have no real assets either (not enough for IHT) but have wills and have named each other as pension beneficiaries so I don't think there's a need for us to marry. I don't need any outside validation of my relationship so I guess I'm having trouble understanding why you need some kind of event to prove something when you don't want to actually be married. Have your family and friends been saying things about your relationship?

[Cloisters]

@PerveenMistry

"the wide social acknowledgement of our commitment to each other and the life we are building together is what I'm after. "

What do you mean by wide social acknowledgment?

If it's not about the party -- well, anyone not at the party would be unlikely to know about your commitment ceremony or whatever, right? Who exactly would be 'acknowledging' your relationship?

Tbh, who besides you actually cares?? I don't spend two seconds pondering whether couples of my acquaintance are married, single, committed, handfasted or otherwise.

DH and I got married for to resolve a visa issue (we were temporarily relocating to another country for his job while I freelanced, and he could only sponsor me for a visa if we were married) after over 20 years together.

We just got married very quickly and casually with two friends as witnesses in the country we were living in at the time. Neither of us used social media, and we didn't really tell people because we were in the middle of subletting our flat, packing, moving across the world, and I was arranging work cover in the job I would be returning to.

So, nearly ten years on from our marriage, some friends and relatives still don't know we're married, or people we've met since just assume we are, or don't give it any thought either way.

Which is a long way round of saying that I've never had any sense of being treated differently as a longterm, visibly committed, cohabiting couple and the same couple, but married. Another couple I know got married in December after fifteen years together, and I don't think it's made the slightest difference, other than obviously legally, and having had a nice (very small) party.

[MoreThanANonMan]

For what it's worth, I think it's absolutely wonderful that you are thinking about marriage so sensibly as the binding contract it is (as well as potentially a lovely romantic commitment to stay together).

To my mind you can do whatever you want and good luck to you, and that would be the attitude if I knew you too. I'd suggest you to think carefully about things like wills, the lack of inheritance tax between spouses and how to nominate him as beneficiary under insurance policies or decision maker over your health of you're incapacitated too (LPA?)

However. The very reason I view marriage differently is precisely because you are choosing to throw in your legal and financial lot with someone rather than keep it separate and proactively protect yourself. Next to having children, legal marriage is probably the biggest commitment you can make because it may well disadvantage one of you if it all goes tits up. You are forming a legal family and committing to ensuring that the other has legal rights against you and your assets, enforceable in a court, even if you split up later.

So although I would never be crass enough to describe someone's life partner as "just a boyfriend", I would consider that that couple had made less of a binding commitment to each other than if they had been legally married, no matter how many celebrations they had or non-legal declarations they had made. For what it's worth, I view marriages based on extensive pre-nups largely the same way.

If you told me you were married when you were not in fact legally married (and I have had someone claim this to me) I would assume that you haven't understood that distinction or really wanted people to think you were more legally committed than you actually were.

I'm sorry that's not very 'nice'. It's not something I would think much about because genuinely to each their own, but that's an honest assessment of how I would view it.

[PerveenMistry]

@IbrahimaRedTwo

Anyone who thinks you aren't a real couple is not going to change their minds because you have a party to tell people you are
But why would you care what they think anyway?

This sums it up.

[IbrahimaRedTwo]

Anyone who thinks you aren't a real couple is not going to change their minds because you have a party to tell people you are
But why would you care what they think anyway?

[TheLastLotus]

@WouldBeGood who were the people telling you this (family, friends, colleagues)?
From what I remember Covid restrictions would’ve applied equally to married couples who don’t live together (unless you’re in the armed forces etc). And people automatically assumed that marrying would mean you move in together when that's not a given. Even if you had a party but didn’t live together these sort of people would probably still be judgy.

[WouldBeGood]

I see @Enormousnamechange‘s point here.

I don’t live with and am not married to my DP. We’re old and fully committed. But last year with the Covid restrictions people like me were persistently told we weren’t a “real couple” or would be married etc. “Just a boyfriend”.

I don’t want to get married as I need to preserve my dcs finances for the future (not that I don’t trust DP but he has a grown up son which obviously affects things). I’ve been through a horrible divorce and know that things don’t always turn out the way you think.

Hence why we are doing a public show of commitment as a gesture, and a party but no legalities.

[PerveenMistry]

"him and for anyone who knows us to know we're each others' people"."


Perplexed. Don't they already know this by virtue of the fact that you've been together for years, and live together?

[PerveenMistry]

"the wide social acknowledgement of our commitment to each other and the life we are building together is what I'm after. "

What do you mean by wide social acknowledgment?

If it's not about the party -- well, anyone not at the party would be unlikely to know about your commitment ceremony or whatever, right? Who exactly would be 'acknowledging' your relationship?

Tbh, who besides you actually cares?? I don't spend two seconds pondering whether couples of my acquaintance are married, single, committed, handfasted or otherwise.

[PerveenMistry]

"Finally - the "he's just a boyfriend" line is exactly why I'd want to do get socially married. He's not just my boyfriend, he's my life partner, best friend etc. I'd hate to be in my 50s and 60s and have people still consider him "just a boyfriend". Feel quite emotional about that."

Why do these labels matter so much to you, and why do you consider being a girlfriend/SO somehow socially inferior to being a wife??

[PerveenMistry]

@Azerothi

You won't be married so he'll still be a boyfriend and you surely wouldn't lie to all your friends and family and introduce him as your husband?

I don't get the point of all this.

It just seems sad.

There's nothing wrong with being unmarried. Maybe spend money on a counselor helping sort out identity issues.

[JinglingHellsBells]

@RainingBatsAndFrogs Really? Is that your kind of experience? That you were expected to find a man to support you? It's an incredibly dated idea. It didn't even apply to my generation and doesn't apply to my DDs. Most of my peers (now in their 50s and older) worked and supported themselves and didn't marry until their late 20s or older, buying their own homes and having professional jobs.

On average, men do earn more than women unless they are in the same profession working the same hours, so if they all took the approach of the OP, none would ever marry.

[Bluntness100]

Getting married is clearly what you want op. To the extent you’re willing to have a pretend wedding so you can fake being married, if he’s willing then get married, if he’s not, just accept it, all this pretend stuff is not healthy.

[RainingBatsAndFrogs]

CookieCreamPie

As women the message we have received explicitly and subliminally since birth is that we get married for a man to look after us and take care of us.

If you find yourself in a minority position (marriage / partner wise) of being financially more secure and stable than a man and not needing one of the biggest advantages of marriage, security due to child bearing, it isn’t that hard to see how a conflict of thought and feeling arises.

And I don’t see it as more ‘sad’ that the OP considers what she has to lose financially ( her home!) than women going into marriage with men on the basis of what they gain financially.

And while it is obvious that women who lose out financially due to child bearing and care should be treated as co owners of money and assets in a divorce, it is hard to see why a man who has had no childcare responsibilities and comes into a partnership with debt should have the claim on the OPs assets that marriage would give him.

[cookiecreampie]

No I think it's a stupid idea. You don't go into marriage thinking only of your husband taking your assets, that's sad. So no I don't think you should get married, but the fake marriage seems weird and a waste of time. You would be doing it just to make yourself appear to other people a certain way but no one would really care. It just sounds a waste of time for nothing.

[Incognitool]

@newnortherner111

I think you should have a proper wedding. Thanks to the law Gyles Brandreth introduced when an MP, it can be without any religious vows, can be in a place you love, and be more social even with the legal bit.

But it’s the legal bit the OP doesn’t want.

[newnortherner111]

I think you should have a proper wedding. Thanks to the law Gyles Brandreth introduced when an MP, it can be without any religious vows, can be in a place you love, and be more social even with the legal bit.