To only get socially married?

[Enormousnamechange]

Hi all

So here's the thing - DP is ambivalent about getting married (he'd do it for me but equally if we never married he'd be just as happy), and I have come to realise that all the things I want from marriage come from the social side rather than the legal side if that makes sense. I'd keep my own name regardless, and can't have kids so we won't be having any of our own, and financially I'm in a much stronger position and will likely be for the rest of my life for one reason or another. From what I know so far, getting married would if anything being a bad idea for me.

But I'd feel so sad never being someone's wife, and to grow old watching my friends get married. Never getting to do the dress and have the party. Never being able to introduce this lovely man to people as my husband. Having everyone wonder why we never got married and if we were really committed. You get the idea. But these doesn't seem like good enough reasons!

I have wondered about doing everything except the legal bit, and as no one would think they were entitled to know my legal/financial situation in any other circumstance they wouldn't need to know here either. We would live our lives after the non-legally binding ceremony exactly like any other married couple. I suppose it could 'come out' if we were to split but not need to go through a divorce.

The thing is I've never ever heard anyone else even think about doing this? It seems to totally solve my problem but I also don't know how people would feel - would they feel betrayed and lied to? But equally I feel that the particular ways in which DP and I are legally bound to each other are not other people's concern. DP's views on this are that he's bought in whatever I'd like to do and he quite likes the idea of being socially not legally married.

But what do you think? Have I lost the plot? Would you be upset/annoyed/amused if you found out you'd been to a wedding of two people who weren't legally married?

YABU - No sham weddings please
YANBU - Seems harmless enough

@Lanique

This all seems a bit 'cake and eat it' to me.

That's what cakes are for.

YANBU - didn't mick jagger do this?

@Snog

YANBU - didn't mick jagger do this?

Jerry thought it was legally binding, as he wanted her to think.

He really is a shitbag.

@Lanique @TheLastLotus

But that ‘downside’ doesn’t affect anyone else in the slightest...if someone wants to avoid a potentially messy divorce then that’s entirely their prerogative surely?
I don’t understand why anyone would care??
She already has the commitment, they live together. That doesn’t change. And if her reasoning is that she wants to avoid a potentially messy divorce...well, that’s not bad reasoning.

I think the problem here is not OPs, but this weird idea that unless you are married your relationship somehow isn’t as valid. Which in a time where 50% of marriages end in divorce is nonsense. Maybe when marriage really was a life long thing you were stuck with then it might have meant more in that respect, but today? It doesn’t prove commitment to be married.

@OwlBeThere your point is valid - but the OP doesn’t agree. And neither do the people around her. Which is why the initial post was asking whether it’s U to hold what is essentially a wedding without the legal bit. With a lot of points raised , but I came away with the impression that apart from wanting a party (fine) the OP wanted to validate their relationship in the eyes of others who apparel only consider marriage an actual commitment (not fine).

Several posts later it appears that the OP is quite sensible and just doesn’t know what she wants. Which is all well and good. She might eventually end up marrying if things go on like this.

But nobody has really answered my question as who these judgy people are and why anyone should be in a rush to ‘prove’ any commitment to them.

Unless the OP’s friends are all getting married and keep comparing themselves to her ...

You’re overthinking it OP. Just get married.

Having a wedding but not getting legally married is very weird. It’s like I dunno having a party to celebrate passing your driving test but not actually doing the test 🤣🤣

@TheLastLotus yes, that’s what I mean really. I’m sad for the OP and others who really think that way about relationships. Marriage doesn’t have the first thing to do with how much you love your spouse.
I think your question is valid, certainly it’s not something I’ve experienced in my life. Lots of my friends are married, plenty are not. I don’t consider their relationships merit based on that, and I don’t think any of them do either.
I was married. Won’t be doing that again

@Enormousnamechange

I should add this is all hypothetical at this stage (if that wasn't obvious), more casting around for ideas!

I suppose my argument is that I wouldn't need the protection, my career is solid and children aren't an option for us. The protection would be for DP, who doesn't want it (I have made it very clear to him that if does want it, then that's something I'm open to!). The sad thing is marriages do end sometimes, sometimes acrimoniously and I don't want to lose my assets to him in that case when he didn't even want them in the first place!

The lying part I do get and understand why people
would be upset. My family would know, I haven't passed the idea any further than my parents but the view there seems to be that DP and I are both get what we want and my financial situation is protected so they're happy. However, would you be more upset by this lie than any other? All lies are shit to be on the receiving end of, but it wouldn't effect anyone except us (unless there's a way it would that I haven't thought of)?

Finally - the "he's just a boyfriend" line is exactly why I'd want to do get socially married. He's not just my boyfriend, he's my life partner, best friend etc. I'd hate to be in my 50s and 60s and have people still consider him "just a boyfriend". Feel quite emotional about that.

Then just get married.

If I knew the ceremony/party wasn’t a legally binding marriage, I would still see him as your boyfriend, not your husband because he still would not be. I wouldn’t refer to him as your husband, because that would be a lie. There’s no such thing as socially married. You either are married or you’re not. I would assume you were having this fake wedding because HE wouldn’t marry you. This is of course not true; but I would think it as I’m sure a lot of your guests will.

It’s a complete waste of time. I think if you go through with it, you’ll see that for yourself in days to come because you’ll know that it doesn’t mean anything. It was just a show. Everyone else will know that too, and it won’t change your position legally or emotionally. No one will see him as your husband because he wouldn’t be.

Just get married. It changes your relationship to something better (if you’re already in a good relationship), and you deserve that if you want to be married, and be real husband and wife.

@Enormousnamechange

I hope this comes across in the way it's intended to - I think the comments saying that if we aren't married we aren't committed are being a bit obtuse. Of course we're committed, we've been together for years through some awful stuff, we live together, we support each other, we've done great things and crap things together and are the best team I've ever been a part of. I'm absolutely committed to him, and he me. Being legally married wouldn't change our level of commitment to each other - and he doesn't mind either way. It is not at all that he wants to get married and I don't, he could get excited about getting married if I wanted to, but would be just as happy not to.

I really love the idea of the commitment ceremony. For those finding my reasoning a bit weird and difficult, it basically boils down to the fact that my head says "You don't need marriage - you're the financially stronger one with more to lose, you can't have children and you're most likely to maintain good health and outlive DP. Why would you get married?!" And my heart says "I want to be married to him and for anyone who knows us to know we're each others' people". But ultimately marriage is a legal document, not a feelings document which is why I think my head has to win this one.

I do really love the commitment ceremony idea. Thank you everyone who suggested it - as I said upthread, I would hugely rather not lie to my friends for the rest of my life if it can be helped!

You wouldn’t be able to lie to them. The person holding the ceremony makes sure everyone knows it’s NOT LEGAL (I.e not a real marriage ceremony).

I get it OP. You want to be validated as a couple, treated as married couples are, except you don’t actually want the legal contract. Just the social contract. Makes sense to me! Why not have a humanist wedding as pp suggested?

I’m really surprised at all the ‘YABUs’.

With or without the legal part, the social aspect of a marriage is important: performing a commitment and statement of intent in the presence of your family and friends is the reason they attend. If it really was just a legal thing everyone would do it in a council office, or perhaps a case of sending off a form like a passport.

I think your idea sounds sensible. What would you be ‘faking’ if the commitment is genuine? (Just don’t use the ‘lawful wedded’ terminology: adapt the vows to suit your situation). If you’re worried about people feeling duped, why not just tell them that it’s a commitment ceremony rather than a legal marriage.

You sound a bit mad tbh.

OP,
I have just read through all your posts. I think I missed the post where you sound really excited about the commitment ceremony. I think you could structure that as much like a wedding day as you liked and have commitment rings and vows. I am sure it also possible to have the person conducting the ceremony say that you now consider yourselves husband and wife in life if not in law. Then you can take this next step. If in the future you want to cement that commitment then you can have a short legal ceremony. Some people will ask questions when they get the invite, my Nan wouldn’t get it at all but everyone who is invited will want to love and support you and once people are clear what going on everyone is going to be happy for you. Some people will think you are being daft and trendy but I bet loads of your 20 something friends will think it’s a really cool idea. Ultimately if it makes you feel really happy and settled and brings you and your partner joy then how can it be anything other than a lovely idea. Your life and your choices can be tailored to what makes you happy and if you are open and straightforward about it nothing you are planning is hurtful or damaging to anyone else.

OP I think once you have got over the hurdle of telling everyone your plan if you do decide to do the commitment ceremony then it sounds like you will just be able to relax and start planning and getting excited. I think feeling uncertain about what people’s reactions would be has held you back.Also people have heard of or might have attended commitment ceremonies , they are already a recognised event.

I think if you started a new thread (not that I am suggesting you do!) with a different username and titled it I am having a commitment ceremony no one would have batted an eye It was the idea of the fake wedding that seemed strange,
If it is your once in a lifetime day with your choice of man then you have every right to pick a dress, choose your flowers, have a cake. Plan those moments with your mum and your best friend have all the things you have ever wanted. It can be as romantic and fairy tale as you have ever hoped for. Your guests will definitely perceive you and your partner as more committed and serious than before. If you make something an event people do tend to pay it more attention so you should have that sense that your social circle see you and your partner in a more a committed light than before. It could be a perfect fit for what you want.
I think sound out your mum and dad and your best friend and see what they say.

it changes your relationship to something better

You can’t possibly state that as if it’s a fact. It’s not, not least because domestic violence often starts after a marriage. (I’m not suggesting OPs partner will, it’s just a statistical average), but also because for many people it changes nothing.

I don't really get the concept of a social marriage. Many people do not get married because they do not like the idea of it - but in a partnership wills etc can take care of most things. Inheritance tax ( if you have enough assets ) and Next of Kin I think are the hardest . But apart from that day to day who knows who is married or not. Equally you can probably protect your assets to an extent if you do want to get married ( i.e. to have a husband)

I would agree, if you want to tell the world you are committed to this man ( & vice versa) , have a party / ceremony and announce it. Perfectly valid. But there is no such thing as a "social marriage" - he is your partner - nothing wrong with that if it what you both choose . However if you are thinking along the lines of how long it would take to extricate yourself if it went wrong - probably not the mindset for marriage . ( & I do not mean that people do not have long lasting unmarried relationships where not being able to get out of it is their main thought )

Well there's my tuppence worth - for what it is ( probably not) worth

twit - took me so long to type that missed a few posts - sorry @Enormousnamechange

Hope you find an answer that works for you and your partner - all best wishes

I can see what you mean.
But if you don't see the legal side as a problem (eg its not beneficial for you but you're not worried about the downside)- and you can possibly protect it to some degree with pre-nups/post nups then I would just get married. the fact you don't need the legal bits doesn't mean you need to avoid them
I think in your position the important bit for you would be making the public committment - i do think thats undermined a bit by its not being legal. Also there are advantages in terms of giving you both stronger next of kin rights/better inheritance tax rights etc

The one fact missing from all of this (and sorry if I've missed it) is their current living arrangements. @Enormousnamechange has said she doesn't want to go into those specifics.

I may well be barking up the wrong tree but, bearing in mind the man's debts, her higher earning power and his being lower, I assume he is living with her (either in a home she is buying or renting.) I think she has said he couldn't support himself fully because of his current debts.

So....it seems to me that she has got very cold feet at the idea of marriage because already she is supporting him financially. If they married and divorced she'd potentially lose her assets even though he's said he wouldn't want any pay-out.

She says all of this herself.

It all comes down to the imbalance of their income and earning power and how she wants a lovely wedding 'dream' but doesn't want to lose out financially to someone who has debts and a lower income.

That to me says she already has more doubts than she's willing to admit over the stability of their relationship.

It would be interesting to know how she felt it this was reversed- a high earning man who refused to marry her because he didn't want to lose out financially if they split up.

I think you should have a proper wedding. Thanks to the law Gyles Brandreth introduced when an MP, it can be without any religious vows, can be in a place you love, and be more social even with the legal bit.

@newnortherner111

I think you should have a proper wedding. Thanks to the law Gyles Brandreth introduced when an MP, it can be without any religious vows, can be in a place you love, and be more social even with the legal bit.

But it’s the legal bit the OP doesn’t want.

No I think it's a stupid idea. You don't go into marriage thinking only of your husband taking your assets, that's sad. So no I don't think you should get married, but the fake marriage seems weird and a waste of time. You would be doing it just to make yourself appear to other people a certain way but no one would really care. It just sounds a waste of time for nothing.

CookieCreamPie

As women the message we have received explicitly and subliminally since birth is that we get married for a man to look after us and take care of us.

If you find yourself in a minority position (marriage / partner wise) of being financially more secure and stable than a man and not needing one of the biggest advantages of marriage, security due to child bearing, it isn’t that hard to see how a conflict of thought and feeling arises.

And I don’t see it as more ‘sad’ that the OP considers what she has to lose financially ( her home!) than women going into marriage with men on the basis of what they gain financially.

And while it is obvious that women who lose out financially due to child bearing and care should be treated as co owners of money and assets in a divorce, it is hard to see why a man who has had no childcare responsibilities and comes into a partnership with debt should have the claim on the OPs assets that marriage would give him.

Getting married is clearly what you want op. To the extent you’re willing to have a pretend wedding so you can fake being married, if he’s willing then get married, if he’s not, just accept it, all this pretend stuff is not healthy.

@RainingBatsAndFrogs Really? Is that your kind of experience? That you were expected to find a man to support you? It's an incredibly dated idea. It didn't even apply to my generation and doesn't apply to my DDs. Most of my peers (now in their 50s and older) worked and supported themselves and didn't marry until their late 20s or older, buying their own homes and having professional jobs.

On average, men do earn more than women unless they are in the same profession working the same hours, so if they all took the approach of the OP, none would ever marry.