To only get socially married?

[Enormousnamechange]

Hi all

So here's the thing - DP is ambivalent about getting married (he'd do it for me but equally if we never married he'd be just as happy), and I have come to realise that all the things I want from marriage come from the social side rather than the legal side if that makes sense. I'd keep my own name regardless, and can't have kids so we won't be having any of our own, and financially I'm in a much stronger position and will likely be for the rest of my life for one reason or another. From what I know so far, getting married would if anything being a bad idea for me.

But I'd feel so sad never being someone's wife, and to grow old watching my friends get married. Never getting to do the dress and have the party. Never being able to introduce this lovely man to people as my husband. Having everyone wonder why we never got married and if we were really committed. You get the idea. But these doesn't seem like good enough reasons!

I have wondered about doing everything except the legal bit, and as no one would think they were entitled to know my legal/financial situation in any other circumstance they wouldn't need to know here either. We would live our lives after the non-legally binding ceremony exactly like any other married couple. I suppose it could 'come out' if we were to split but not need to go through a divorce.

The thing is I've never ever heard anyone else even think about doing this? It seems to totally solve my problem but I also don't know how people would feel - would they feel betrayed and lied to? But equally I feel that the particular ways in which DP and I are legally bound to each other are not other people's concern. DP's views on this are that he's bought in whatever I'd like to do and he quite likes the idea of being socially not legally married.

But what do you think? Have I lost the plot? Would you be upset/annoyed/amused if you found out you'd been to a wedding of two people who weren't legally married?

YABU - No sham weddings please
YANBU - Seems harmless enough

I think the best advice is wait and see how you both feel in 5 years time.

I feel concerned that there are some very important differences between you at this stage of your relationship which may be behind your worries over a divorce in the future.

The imbalance between earnings isn't so important if you both have a good work ethic, but his debts would concern me, if I were you now.

I also (sorry to mention it again) would be concerned about the decision to be childless. It does matter which one of you is infertile and if the other is being 100% honest and certain about never wanting a family.
It's a huge thing to accept in your 20s. If you are both on the same page that's great and I accept some couples never want a child. BUT in my experience I do know couples where one changed their minds, or one felt very sad that they never had a child, many decades down the line. I just hope that you are being really honest with each other and the one who is fertile is happy to be childless not just now but 20 years from now.

If someone I know did this and I later found out it wasn’t a ‘legal’ wedding I can’t say I’d give a shiny shit tbh. Your life. Do as you please.

@OwlBeThere

If someone I know did this and I later found out it wasn’t a ‘legal’ wedding I can’t say I’d give a shiny shit tbh. Your life. Do as you please.

I agree. You could always say you’re planning to do the legal bit in a registry office after the party and if anyone asks if you ever did it (which they probably won’t) you could always say you decided not to do it in the end

This all seems a bit 'cake and eat it' to me.

@LeopardSheet the amount people care about other people’s lives really confuses me sometimes.

My dad and his wife didn’t get legally married until about 5 years after everyone thought they had, they didn’t pretend to have a wedding or anything but people just started refering to them as wife and husband and they didn’t deny it.

As for comments about someone you share your life with being ‘only’ a boyfriend is really cruel and minimising of relationships.
My best friends parents have been together since they were 16, they’re now 70. To claim that he is ‘only’ her boyfriend is ridiculous. They’ve had 4 children, 3 serious ill health scares, Job losses, promotions, houses, grandchildren, an entire life time together. They just didn’t have a wedding.

@Lanique in what respect? That implies they are skipping the ‘down’ side which is what?

@gottakeeponmovin

If you are the higher earner don't get married. End of

That doesn't make sense. Unles you're both on the exact same salary, one person in each relationship will be th higher earner. If everyonebthought that,noone would get married.

Or what if the lower earner's career takes off after marriage and they end up being thge higher earner? Wwould that beok?

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

Oh for an edit button. Hurry up, MN.

@AquaTorfana

I agree with another poster. This false marriage is because you want to show people your relationship is serious and progressing because you believe, or believe others to believe, that you're not 'serious' without calling each other husband and wife. However, you don't actually want to get serious. You know marriages end and you're not prepared to pay the cost of that marriage ending if and when it does because you're the higher earner and in a far more stable position.

You want the party but don't care about the commitment - you just want the show of commitment so people believe you're committed. It seems a waste of time and money but that's on you. Do whatever you like. Call him your husband. Call yourself his wife. It doesn't make it true.

This, but to be honest, if I got invited to something like this, I'd just assume you will have split up in a year tops because this was your way of trying to fix the relationship. It doesn't sound like a serious relationship already, and not one that you are committed to in reality.

The financial risk, the potentially messy divorce, the whole scary commitment shebang @OwlBeThere. Or whatever potential downsides are holding the op back from just getting married 🤷🏻‍♀️

There are some really sad interpretations of what I've said here. I appreciate that I may be being naive, and I do know I have more research to do here but some of the theories coming out here are completely backwards. The "proposal can be a surprise but the engagement shouldn't be" has been taken in a totally different way than it normally would on Mumsnet- it means by the time we decide if that's what we want we would have agreed how our finances will run, kids (out of our hands in this case), how to manage our careers if they pull in different directions and together fully decided that's what we want. Basically make sure that we are totally sure and ready, but not spoil the actual moment whenever it happens - which I have always been raised to believe is the smartest way to do it and what people have suggested on Mumsnet before. On this thread it's been made to seem weird and negative.

Ambivalent is the wrong word. He loves me and is committed to me and our future together. To him, above all else he wants me to feel secure and safe in our relationship whether that means marriage, no marriage, commitment ceremony, handfasting (had never heard of that before this thread!), anything. He would throw himself into a wedding and be excited about it if it was what I wanted - but I just don't know what it is that I want (hence starting the thread).

Again - this is all hypothetical and none of this would be happening within a couple of years at least!

but I just don't know what it is that I want

You want to be married and have the fuss. But you aren't ready for it, and are still too worried about the implications of doing so. Which is fair enough given your age.

You just haven't got there yet.

I'd put a good 50 pence on you eventually getting married rather than not.

My friend got religiously married in their faith but not legally married.

Goodness op you have shown some staying power. No idea if you'll ever come back to this (wouldn't blame you if you didn't!) I read the op and just knew you were going to get ripped apart

Fwiw I don't think you're at all unreasonable. Your set up means you don't need the legal protection, in fact it could be counterproductive if things went wrong in the future. Not getting married legally now doesn't mean that you never can should circumstances change. Wanting to be a couple who are seen as committed in the way a married couple are is not unreasonable either. It's a fact that society sees married couples in a different way than those who aren't even if they've been together for decades. It's just one of those things and you obviously notice it.

In your position I'd look at a pagan ceremony, a handfasting or exchange of vows away from a legal setting (commitment ceremony or similar). People are aware they are not legally binding but they are seen in a similar light to a wedding by most people - and those that get arsey about them are probably not people you really want as friends anyway - just look at this thread as evidence

Wanting to be recognised as committed to someone is a wonderful thing and no one has the right to say a ceremony to recognise that is not proper if it's not legally binding. This is your life, live it your way.

@OwlBeThere the downside is the mess of a divorce (and OP’s supposed possible loss of assets)

@Bufferingkisses @Enormousnamechange

Genuinely curious - what exactly do you mean by society recognising married couples in a different way?
I live with my partner and we’re generally treated as a unit. Invited to family events together etc. So are my friends (in fact most of them are invited to events with the partner even though they don’t live together).
We haven’t been living together long but as the years go by - if we still aren’t married some people might gossip but this makes no difference.

What benefit does this external validation bring?

Also to add apart from my parents the rest of my family are very conservative so if you come from a background like that where people actively ostracise you I can see why - but they don’t support living together either ...

Op I think if you had opened with this post this would have been a much shorter thread! if you want him to be secure and safe too then I think you will have the perfect basis to get engaged. I think you sound like you are both on the same page just not quite there yet. In its purest form I think that’s what marriage should should be a mutual agreement to take care of each other. I don’t think you will need to do the non legal wedding I think it sounds as if you not many years away from being ready to get married. Then you can create all the amazing family memories that you are hoping for. Oddly this soul searching will probably be amazingly beneficial in working through everything together before you make that final commitment.

Whoever invented the idea of 'magic moments' has a lot to answer for.

[quote ChairmansReserve]**@81Byerley* Nobody worried about the signing of a register or the lack of officialdom. It was perfect, lots of people there to wish them well. My husband (stepdad) officiated with wording he had written. And each year they celebrate that anniversary. Four months later they had a quiet family register office wedding, followed by a picnic. But the first wedding was the real one.*

No, it wasn't. And you were all very lucky that neither of them died or experienced a life-changing accident or illness in the intervening four years.

You could get married in a field, or in the woods. You could do it in a hotel with the ceremony in the evening. You could do it in your garden. Choose someone to officiate. Have a hand-fasting. Whatever you decide, Have a wonderful day!

Marriage isn't about 'a [single] wonderful day', a dress, dragonflies, lakes, woods, ribbons, 'ceremonies personalised and tailored all about you'. That's just a big party, or a 'pageant' as someone said upthread.

Getting married is a legally and financially binding contract.[/quote]
They got married 4 months later. And the point is that @Enormousnamechange doesn't want to be legally married, but she WOULD like the lovely day.

If your latest post was your first post then I think the thread would have gone differently.

Apologies as I think I was someone who got the wrong end of the stick on the proposal thing. I agree that a couple should decide they want the same things and then if they want the romantic proposal it comes after knowing they're on the same page. From your previous posts it sounded like you wanted a nice proposal, but with no wedding to propose and no engagement because there's no wedding. That's why I found it a bizarre thing to want. What you've said now makes sense.

It sounds like you're both in a good position in the relationship but it's just the wrong time to be making a decision on marriage. If you're both happy being committed and cohabiting then there's nothing wrong with that, and if you choose to marry in due course then great, if you don't and are happy that's also great.

I had some friends, well acquaintances, who were very lovely but seemed in a rush to get into the serious stuff and at times it felt they were doing what they felt they 'should' do on time frames they felt they 'should' have. If you can chill and enjoy the journey you might get a resolution quicker either way.

If the financial problem you are worried about is his debt, surely that will be paid off at some point? You could get married after that?

I'm not sure if the legality but if he is paying toward the home he could have a stake in it anyway regardless if you are married or not.

My friends had a handfasting ceremony in a field. I brought a new dress. We paid for accomodation. It was beautiful. They're still together. I don't feel lied to.

I happen to know they got married in a registry office a few weeks prior with her bro and sil for legal reasons but don't even know if it's common knowledge.

Do it. And if you like it, the handfasting ceremony is lovely and represents a ceremony about what marriage should be - love.

I don't go to anyone's wedding because of the legal clauses of their commitment.

Marriage isn't about 'a [single] wonderful day', a dress, dragonflies, lakes, woods, ribbons, 'ceremonies personalised and tailored all about you'. That's just a big party, or a 'pageant' as someone said upthread. Getting married is a legally and financially binding contract yes but you don't pay hundreds on clothes, accomodation, gifts and an extortionate bar to mark your loved one entering into a legally binding contract. You go to celebrate their love and commitment. You go to be a part of their happiness to make those vows and promises to each other. Not to go "sorry, can we hurry up and get to the legal bit, I really don't care about your love, love does!"

@Enormousnamechange I hadn't read your others oats when I replied but think the hand fasting is Def what you want. Of people ask about the legal ceremony, say you'll sort it in time but the important thing for you is the commitment you make on that day. If people don't want to come because there's no legal contract they are, I'd suggest, a bit odd and don't love you enough to share your day