To only get socially married?

[Enormousnamechange]

Hi all

So here's the thing - DP is ambivalent about getting married (he'd do it for me but equally if we never married he'd be just as happy), and I have come to realise that all the things I want from marriage come from the social side rather than the legal side if that makes sense. I'd keep my own name regardless, and can't have kids so we won't be having any of our own, and financially I'm in a much stronger position and will likely be for the rest of my life for one reason or another. From what I know so far, getting married would if anything being a bad idea for me.

But I'd feel so sad never being someone's wife, and to grow old watching my friends get married. Never getting to do the dress and have the party. Never being able to introduce this lovely man to people as my husband. Having everyone wonder why we never got married and if we were really committed. You get the idea. But these doesn't seem like good enough reasons!

I have wondered about doing everything except the legal bit, and as no one would think they were entitled to know my legal/financial situation in any other circumstance they wouldn't need to know here either. We would live our lives after the non-legally binding ceremony exactly like any other married couple. I suppose it could 'come out' if we were to split but not need to go through a divorce.

The thing is I've never ever heard anyone else even think about doing this? It seems to totally solve my problem but I also don't know how people would feel - would they feel betrayed and lied to? But equally I feel that the particular ways in which DP and I are legally bound to each other are not other people's concern. DP's views on this are that he's bought in whatever I'd like to do and he quite likes the idea of being socially not legally married.

But what do you think? Have I lost the plot? Would you be upset/annoyed/amused if you found out you'd been to a wedding of two people who weren't legally married?

YABU - No sham weddings please
YANBU - Seems harmless enough

What about a commitment ceremony? Get a humanist to lead it and incorporate something like jumping over a broom or hand tying if you don't want rings.

If you don't want or need the legal aspects of marriage you don't need to adopt them, you can still declare your commitment to eachother. Some traditionalists might think it's a bit odd but they'll get over it.

I've been married for 30 years, so some might class me as a traditionalist but I say do what you want.

[quote Planty13]@TheLastLotus and? What is the etc? I know plenty of people that refer to the hubby or the wife.... many of them aren’t married. What else is there to social approval?[/quote]
People I know call them their partner.
Never heard anyone use wife or husband if not married.

I dont think anyone really cares about husband/partner/boyfriend thing as much as you or as much as you think.

If you want to be married and he said he would do that then why not do that?

In actual marriage you don't hedge your bets in the sense of trying to tell yourself that this is actually what you want because you want to protect your assets.

I think you should be honest w9th yourself that deep down you want to get properly married and are upset that he doesn't really want to do that but will do if he HAS to.

Do what you want but be honest with everyone. However, surely it is very common for one person in a couple to be better off financially than the other? Are we saying that if you are the rich one then you shouldn't get married? I find this rather depressing.

@Whitegrapewine

Handfastings are lovely, a friend of mine gets Handfasted for a year and a day each time - and that means they get either a party, or their own private recommitment ceremony, every 366 days. That might be nice?

Marriage does have a status in society, even today - which as pps have said is to do with the recognition of risk and the acknowledgement of a couple's bravery in making a commitment that is hard to get out of. How vulnerable it makes you, and what a level of trust there is to do that.

the wide social acknowledgement of our commitment to each other and the life we are building together is what I'm after

You see, unless you marry, you don't get that! I don't see a couple taking a risk to make that commitment, so society doesn't have to recognise it. There is nothing for me to applaud.

It's like the other thread where the OP wanted presents like people who get married and have babies do. Marriage isn't a wholly positive fun thing, neither is having a baby- it's a huge personal challenge, yet with huge personal and societal rewards.

I think you sense a sort of "grown-upness" of people who are married and you want that for yourself, but you have not realised that they are getting that recognition because of the practical and psychological work they have put in.

You are trying to have your wedding cake and eat it, OP.

This sounds great. I love the flexibility of handfastings (which is why we did it)!

OP.
Is it his debt that is making you nervous ? Do you worry he could remake some of the foolish financial mistakes he made in his 20s? Is it something he could relapse into? Could he slip up again and put joint finances or joint mortgage in jeopardy?
How many years will you have to carry the can on the other household expenses while he clears the debt?
I think if the debt can be cleared within the next 5 years I would plan to get married once that has happened. He will have shown the commitment and self discipline to getting himself back on an even keel and then you could move forward together on an equal footing. Or get engaged now, have a really beautiful engagement party and plan to marry when the debt is cleared. I think clearing the debt will go along way to reassuring you about joining your finances and it will remove the sense of imbalance that currently exists where you are topping up everything to facilitate him clearing his debts. Most people wouldn’t try and finance a wedding when they are trying to clear a substantial debt so it makes sense to wait until the finances are more sorted. You could have a really beautiful engagement party with photos and create some great memories. You would also have a time line for your wedding when your then fiancée is solvent.

Not rtft but what happens if either of you die? If you’re married it’s much simpler to sort all the financials/property.

@CaraherEIL Dropdtuning Just out of interest do you have kids? Do they have your husbands surname or both names? I had to have a very lengthy heated debate with my husband on this and my children have both.

Hi, yes we do have children and they have both of our surnames, hyphenated.

We had kids before we were married, and at that point the kids had my surname only, and his name as a middle name.

When we got married, we re-registered the kids and double-barrelled their surnames.

Nice one for sticking to your guns on this. I honestly think these seemingly trivial, 'everyday' sort of issues have a big impact en masse. I have a son and a daughter and I would never want them to get the message that their dad's family/name/heritage/ethnicity is more important than their mum's.

@Planty13
The ‘etc’ is whatever the OP’s friends are doing that make her so anxious to seem married. For example, in her own words, ‘everyone wondering why we never married and whether we were really committed’.

I live with DP and family/friends treat us as a couple - we’re both invited to all events. And we haven’t even been living together that long. Should we decide to marry tomorrow absolutely nothing from a social perspective will change. Except for my surname.

Actually I could understand it if the OP was from a different culture where only marriage = commitment or that specific family members haven’t been accepting but she’s have said so if it was as she’s been verily slammed on her.

So I’m guessing she wants the wedding celebration and all the stuff that goes with it as she mentions things like calling him her husband, watching friends get married (and presumably the fuss made over them)

*slammed on here not her!

@Enormousnamechange I have mentioned this before - I do not want a big party. There are a few specific wedding day moments I would love to have , which involve things getting ready with my mum and best friend, having a special moment with my dad, writing and saying the vows/not-vows, having some nice photos together. Things like that. Nothing big or fancy or extravagent and certainly not about having a "big party and a nice dress".

It doesn't matter how 'big' the party is or how 'extravagant' the dress is. The whole thing is a superficial Hallmark/Kodak/Instagram idea of what it means to get married.

Why would you have 'a special moment with your dad' when nothing is actually changing or happening on that day? You're cohabiting with someone you've been going out with for four years.

Exactly the same will be true the day after your faux 'wedding day'. You're not making any kind of commitment or moving on to a different stage in your life. It's all fake.

I just feel the same want to have the same nice moments that most women look forward to and hope for.

No. As evidenced by this thread, many, many women have not bought into the 'fairytale' stereotype of 'magical moments and memories'. That isn't what marriage is.
Perhaps you've been overly influenced by the type of people you hang out with. You don't have to buy into this crap, you know.

I want him to be my life partner and to be recognised as exactly that by our family, friends and anyone we happen to meet.

If you really wanted him to be your 'life partner', you wouldn't be so worried about the prospect of him having a claim on your 'assets' when if you split up. You wouldn't be thinking in those terms.

I won't even get into why it should matter for even a fraction of a second whether or not 'anyone you happen to meet' thinks he's your 'life partner' or not.

Mine was the same and i convinced myself i only wanted the social side of m. 9 years later, still not married. It was all bollocks. He just doeant want marriage. I'm off!

@TheMotherlode

I don’t think you can be ‘socially married’, you’re either married or you’re not. Totally fine if you don’t want to be, but don’t pretend.

If it’s about the party then just have a party. Don’t lie to your friends and family that it’s a wedding if it isn’t though.

This. Just seems stupid to have a pretend wedding. Sounds like you want the party and the presents but not the 'proper' marriage.

Comment below from the OP:

10 pages in I am starting to struggle with essentially being called shallow and attention-seeking, and saying that I'm not committed to DP. That is all really hard to hear, and not an accurate reflection of me or our relationship - if I were talking about a different topic I'd come across totally differently!

I don't blame you one bit. People are peculiarly precious about marriage, the same way they sometimes are about the ways other people to structure their family life and division of domestic and paid labour. It's a similar attitude to the one that prompted me to be asked why I'd bothered to get married in the first place, given I'd taken the liberty of retaining my own family name.

It affects absolutely no one but you. Your partner and you know each other's attitudes to marriage and are presumably happy with that. IMO weddings if not marriage are far too much about what other people think you should do and often less about what the couple themselves actually want. That's why we eloped.

As per the 'marry for love' comments: I love my partner to the extent that I didn't need a public affirmation. Other things took far more immediate priority in our earlier lives for me in particular: caring for my dying mother, writing a PhD thesis, establishing a career. We stood by each other through both some wonderful and very hard times. Marriage couldn't have (and didn't) deepen the commitment that was already there.

We had a wonderful, romantic day and what anyone would have described as a 'dream' wedding, if your dream doesn't happen to be Insta-wedding catering for 100+ guests. That's not for everyone. But yes, the eventual decision to marry was made for hard-headed, practical, cool, legal reasons. And that's fine. Doesn't mean we loved each other any less.

22 years together, 12 of them married, we are still happy. 'Should' is a futile word.

just one final thing. Inheritance tax. Definitely a reason to get married

And the reason people are commenting on this thread is because you say that you want him to be recognised as your life partner by the wider world but you won't actually give him the security of being your life partner.

Yes. You want the appearance of the commitment, and the social capital that comes with that, without the risk of actual commitment.

DP and I have exchanged rings and are going to have a “not getting married” party when it’s allowed 😊

The things you want in a wedding [ceremony] are not what everyone wants or has.

I didn't give a fig about the things you list as 'wanting'.

They are highly romantic ideas about 'the day' and the lead-in to it.

I know loads of couples whose weddings were not like that in any way.

Given the vows say 'for better or worse, richer or poorer' you ought not to get married as you aren't happy about the 'richer or poorer' part.
You want to hold onto your assets.

It's all quite sad really.

Personally, I don't think you love this man as much as you say.
If you did you'd not over-analyse it all.

I find it bizarre that anyone thinks this is weird.

Fantastic idea imo for all the reasons you've listed.

People get married just for the legalities every day. In fact it's regularly recommended here on mumsnet 🤣

Do whatever the fuck you want mate

Agreed there is no such thing as socially married. Making it up doesn’t mean it’s a thing. Pretend married isn’t a thing either.Basically you want people to think you’re married and you want it so bad you’d even pretend and have a fake wedding.

If you want to be married, and I think irrelevant of what you’re writing you really want to be, then talk to your partner again. If he doesn’t want to then acccept you will not be his wife, he won’t be your husband and that lying about it won’t change that.

Op I don’t know how recent the information about the infertility is but it seems a lot to already have to know while you are still in your 20s that you will never get married and never have children I think that might make me feel quite aimless and looking for a celebration or a way my life might move forward especially after Covid stagnation. I think talk to your partner again ambivalence can be quite annoying especially when it is connected to his feelings about you.

The only person I know who used wife or husband or hubby when not married had a wife who thought she was legally married to him but she had just had a religious ceremony and the man's legal rights were much stronger for that absence of the marriage.

By the way people need to remember Scotland has different laws from England on this.

People I know use "Partner" if they are not married as they do not want to lie and say they are married.

Personally, I don't think you love this man as much as you say.If you did you'd not over-analyse it all

I’ve a very different take, I think she does love him. The issue is he doesn’t wish to get married. So the ops rationalised it on why that’s ok for her legally, but she’s desperate so she’s come up with the fake wedding as a compromise. I think if he got down on one knee and said I’ve changed my mind I really want to marry you, she’d say yes in a shot.

The whole reason she’s trying to come up with this hair brain idea is because she desperately wants to get married and she’s thinking this is a compromise.

Love and wanting to protect assets are not mutually exclusive. More like sensible, given how many marriages fail.