Do I challenge how my DS described this boy?

[RickyZoom]

My DS is 4 and will make friends with anyone wherever we go.
Recently we went to an playground and he made friends with a boy around his age. When asking him if he enjoyed his day he said "yes, first I had an ice cream, then I played with the black boy." Now AIBU just to let this description pass as a 4 year old describing what someone looks like, the same as if he was telling me his hair colour or should I be starting to discuss what is and isn't appropriate ways to describe people. Or am I worrying about nothing?

[quote worriedatthemoment]@Butwasitherdriveway what are you talking about ? Why can someone not say black, thats how my friends described themselves to my children ?[/quote]
Omg

I agree.

My issue was with PP who said 'but why didn't he say brown? '

@Butwasitherdriveway how do you think the 4 year old should be told to say ?

@Butwasitherdriveway your post is confusing

You're failing to make any sense at all, Butwasitherdriveway
You are actually looking quite foolish.

@GreyhoundG1rl

You're failing to make any sense at all, Butwasitherdriveway You are actually looking quite foolish.

Don't you pile on. I don't look foolish at all. You do for jumping on me.

Il make it very clear.

The boy is presumably black.
That is fine.
Earlier on a PP said oooh that's worrying that they use the word black.
Why didn't they use the word brown?
I said presumably because he's black.
It's okay to say black.
PP tried to claim brown and black is the same.
It isn't.

I then had a completely unrelated conversations with a PP about whether s four year old is taught about skin colour.

There is no issue with refering to a boy as black if that is what he is.

Is that bloody OK with everyone?!

At least RTFT before jumping on my posts.

It isn't taught. It just isn't. Let's stop fluffing around it.

Except , if you look into it .

1.There are plenty EYFS resources online (like twinkl,bbc and many more). There wouldn't be if there wasn't a demand/need for them.
2.Again, a bit of searching shows various nurseries,reception classes etc. (school based and otherwise) celebrating Black History Month in some form or another .

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

It isn't taught. It just isn't. Let's stop fluffing around it.

Except , if you look into it .

1.There are plenty EYFS resources online (like twinkl,bbc and many more). There wouldn't be if there wasn't a demand/need for them.
2.Again, a bit of searching shows various nurseries,reception classes etc. (school based and otherwise) celebrating Black History Month in some form or another .

Celebrating.

Educating?

In primary school we did Diwali.

We coloured in a candle.

My Dc have a new boy in school. Apparently he is a “straight” boy. I asked what that meant and he’s “up and down” “straight” then they stand very tall. So I don’t know what that means. Kids say what they see.

When my youngest was around the same age, he reportedly said that he wanted to lick his friend because he was brown like chocolate.

The nursery told me it had to be logged as a racist incident. No joke.

I also worked in a company where no one was allowed to describe black/Indian/Chinese colleagues as such and would go all round the houses describing their hair, if they wore glasses, age, accent, height etc.

PC gone mad.

I have read the thread, Butwasitherdriveway.
I was responding to your utterly ridiculous It isn't taught. It just isn't. Let's stop fluffing around it. comment.

@Butwasitherdriveway I'll stop now as I saw you were pretty annoyed/upset in your earlier comment about the pile on.

Plus, at the end of the day we actually agree on the black/brown issue and this an entirely separate point.

[quote AccidentallyOnPurpose]@Butwasitherdriveway I'll stop now as I saw you were pretty annoyed/upset in your earlier comment about the pile on.

Plus, at the end of the day we actually agree on the black/brown issue and this an entirely separate point. [/quote]
Nah I'm good.

I just think people are being deliberately awkward when I actually was agreeing with PP!

😘

@GreyhoundG1rl

I have read the thread, Butwasitherdriveway. I was responding to your utterly ridiculous It isn't taught. It just isn't. Let's stop fluffing around it. comment.

Do you know many four year olds who can tell you about the slave trade then?

If anyone wants some good resources about teaching your child to be anti-racist, Google the conscious kid. It has an American bias but I've picked up some great books with black protagonists for my 5 year old.

Do you know many four year olds who can tell you about the slave trade then?
You're still missing the point, what's the matter with you?
The reception kids would be introduced to it at a very age appropriate level but the salient point is they'll be aware that black people refer to themselves as black.
I honestly don't know what you find difficult to understand.

Of course it’s taught. My 4 year old learned about black role models and the fact what they did was important because of the way black peoples were treated in history. One was Rosa Parks and one was Mary Seacole and it was explained why for a long time she was less celebrated than Florence Nightingale. We went to the book shop that specialises in black literature and she chose a story about Floella Benjamin that talks about racism in a pre school appropriate way. None of this is suspect or unusual ime. I still maintain that although a child might do so it’s not really appropriate to describe a person as “brown” and I would gently correct my child if they did that as part of educating them about how to talk respectfully about people.

Black people. Not peoples, sorry that was a typo.

@Butwasitherdriveway well in my kids school they did more than colour in a candle so it will vary
Im in my 40's and went to school a long time ago and we did a lot ob Diwali as we had lots of children who celebrated it
All things can only be taught in an age appropriate way and so teaching 4 year olds about slave trade wouldn't be appropriate , we were not just talking about that though , people mentioned black history month

Wouldn't be appropriate as in full details I mean it may only be touched upon

My 2 year old nephew did black history month at nursery. Ok it was in the US. and I don't know what was actually taught. But the word black to describe people is not unheard of for young children. I used to work in a very mixed school and the 5 year olds would describe themselves or others as black or white.

Black is fine as a descriptor for a person who is of black ethnic origin. I'd be a surprised if a 4 year old knows this though so likely they were talking about the actual colour of the boy's skin.

Sorry but it's pretty racist to assume anything about someone's origins from their skin colour. A black person may have originated in Britain, Europe, the Caribbean, Africa, or elsewhere. Yes their ancestors were more recently in Africa than most white people. (Although there are plenty of white Africans too.) But it could have been several generations since they were in Africa. You wouldn't expect a white person to describe their "ethnic origin" based on the place their ancestors left 200 years ago. If they are born in Britain that's enough to describe them as British. Why do people of other races need to be differentiated by their "ethnic origins"? It just seems to be another way of making people feel foreign or not really welcome here.

This is often how thoughtlessness re race starts ‘that’s the black / muslim / Indian boy’ but I bet the white kids all have names or get get described by other characteristics. I fought back with a white acquantence who did this by describing her as ‘ruddy’ and she hated it

I think that’s a far fetched leap of a conclusion. It’s also why I gave other examples of describing other children, ie glasses, tall one, yellow hair.... if they specifically didn’t know the name.

[quote worriedatthemoment]@Butwasitherdriveway well in my kids school they did more than colour in a candle so it will vary
Im in my 40's and went to school a long time ago and we did a lot ob Diwali as we had lots of children who celebrated it
All things can only be taught in an age appropriate way and so teaching 4 year olds about slave trade wouldn't be appropriate , we were not just talking about that though , people mentioned black history month [/quote]
What do any four year olds you know learn about black history?

@longestlurkerever

Of course it’s taught. My 4 year old learned about black role models and the fact what they did was important because of the way black peoples were treated in history. One was Rosa Parks and one was Mary Seacole and it was explained why for a long time she was less celebrated than Florence Nightingale. We went to the book shop that specialises in black literature and she chose a story about Floella Benjamin that talks about racism in a pre school appropriate way. None of this is suspect or unusual ime. I still maintain that although a child might do so it’s not really appropriate to describe a person as “brown” and I would gently correct my child if they did that as part of educating them about how to talk respectfully about people.

Mm.

@notalwaysalondoner

I don't understand everyone saying 'how come he knows the word 'black' and didn't call him 'brown'?' 'Black' is the accepted terminology in the UK for someone of Afro-Caribbean descent. It is used frequently in the media. His parents might use it (perfectly acceptably) to describe somebody they met, a celebrity etc. It's not like other terminologies that are offensive. Children pick up all kinds of things, I don't see why it's so surprising he's picked that up.

Agree. My daughter celebrated 'Black history month' at her nursery when she was three.

And no, as many have suggested, saying someone is 'Black' is not like saying someone is 'fat' or 'bald'.... the second two are aspects that either suggest Ill-health or something lacking, which 95% of people would prefer not to be if they could easily choose...to label someone that way is to essentially point out something they and others may well regard as a fault that they regret.

To suggest that 'Black' is an equivalent is insulting at best.

GreyhoundG1rl

You're still missing the point, what's the matter with you?
The reception kids would be introduced to it at a very age appropriate level but the salient point is they'll be aware that black people refer to themselves as black.
I honestly don't know what you find difficult to understand.“

This. Some years ago, I worked for a prominent black person in the public eye who always described themselves as black. Incidentally yes, their 4 year old was aware of the slave trade, as were my children by the time they were 4/5 years old. I’m white but have black, African ancestors who were enslaved. One was a published abolitionist here in the UK and our family are very proud of him. As you say, it is very easy to explain these things in age appropriate terms.