To think there is no shame in having self imposed limits with driving

[Cheeseandlobster]

I passed my test 2 years ago but remain nervous. I work 15 miles away in a city and have forced myself to do the drive but there are still parts of the city I won't drive in (it has no effect on my job), I go to the supermarket during quiet times so its easier to park, I have done the motorway but again do this at quiet times. This only affects me and the way I see it is that I went for 40 years not driving so just being able to drive myself to Aldi is brilliant. And I do still push myself to do different things but I have stopped putting pressure on myself as much as I used to as I am happy with my limits.

But on here threads from nervous drivers often contain a few posts from people who say that if you wont drive absolutely everywhere then you shouldn't be on the road etc.

I just think where else does this logic apply. I mean we don't say to people who cant run a marathon that they therefore shouldnt be running at all, or to those who are not confident cooks that they should try to cook gourmet food rather than tried and tested recipes they are comfortable with. I think we all have limitations somewhere and it is safer to do this sometimes. I know its a lifeskill but I don't depend on others for lifts so really where is the harm?

Aibu?

@apooagnuandyou I completely agree with everything you just said! It just frustrates me, not that I act on that frustration at all! The same when I can see the roundabout is empty but drivers still want to slow into first gear and then proceed.

The worst is when they sit in the right hand lane of a dual carriageway, but that's a whole different thread

[quote BoredatHome321]@echt there's a reason you can fail your driving test for driving too slow... [/quote]
Have I said anyone should drive too slow?

Slowly, not slow.

@echt Fair enough, I guess it just depends what you determine slow vs slowly.

I dont mind slowly/cautious.. doing 40 in a 50 for example.

However, someone doing 20 in a 50 is as much of a hazard as someone speeding, and also as likely to be stopped by the police and done for driving without due care and attention.

If you're doing 20 and someone comes around the corner/over the hill doing 50 and has to break, you can cause a serious crash, same as hesitating while merging onto a motorway, or pulling onto a roundabout.

IF you're unsure on a roundabout, go right, go all the way around, do it twice if you have to until you're sure of the exit you need to take.

If you're unsure on a motorway, stay left, leave room for people to merge when you get to junctions, take your time... don't sit in the middle lane doing 60.

*brake (not break.)

Driving Confidently does not equal reckless/dangerous.

Driving anxiously/hesitantly/nervously is a lot more likely to cause accidents because you're unpredictable/hesitant.

and tbh, right now i'm coming across a lot more hesitant/slow drivers because it seems, locally at least, quite a few people haven't driven much in the last year and are nervous behind the wheel after not driving for a while.

I'm having to treat everyone like a learner driver and give them room, but its still irritating when i'm stuck behind someone doing 20mph below the speed limit!

@Excilente

I dont mind slowly/cautious.. doing 40 in a 50 for example.

However, someone doing 20 in a 50 is as much of a hazard as someone speeding, and also as likely to be stopped by the police and done for driving without due care and attention.

If you're doing 20 and someone comes around the corner/over the hill doing 50 and has to break, you can cause a serious crash, same as hesitating while merging onto a motorway, or pulling onto a roundabout.

IF you're unsure on a roundabout, go right, go all the way around, do it twice if you have to until you're sure of the exit you need to take.

If you're unsure on a motorway, stay left, leave room for people to merge when you get to junctions, take your time... don't sit in the middle lane doing 60.

If someone comes over a hill and has an accident due to someone ahead driving 20 miles per hour it’s not the fault of the slow driver. That slow car could of been a tractor or a cyclist or even a broken down car. You should always take into account visibility of the road ahead in your speed this is basic stuff!

I have only ever heard of people being stopped by police for driving slow on motorways when the road ahead is 100% visible not bendy roads with hills!

It doesn't help to say 'go all the way around on a roundabout' when they are spiral roundabouts with many lanes that feed into each other and then off at different exits. You have to be really clear which lane does what, how does it turn off, where the bus lanes are when you do get off and whether you should be turning off from the other lane, etc. etc. - lots of specific knowledge that seems easy when you've done it a few times, but not very easy when you don't come across them that often and aren't clear on what lane ends up where. It's not like normal one or two-lane ones that you just go round and round and indicate when you want to get off!

Or a junction that has lots of uneven roads going off in various directions, and you're trying to work out if something is a through road or a turning or a pedestrian alley or whatever, these old city centres with narrow lanes that weren't set up for cars at all - it can be very confusing, trying to read all the signs and work out what's happening and where you should be. I have lots of sympathy for people getting confused, even if it's irritating at times when it's somewhere you know. I am a more patient driver myself now for being a nervous learner.

I think when people have children who are learning to drive, and they see how processing so much information at one time can be confusing in the moment, then they might have more patience with other drivers who make mistakes or look like they are hesitating for a second. You can't get good until you've had some time to practice, and that means there will be people on the road at different levels of ability. I took over a year of lessons and more after I passed, and I still get freaked out at times, even when I make myself do it. It's not stress-free, and I worry a lot, and that doesn't necessarily get better the more I do it. I dread the slip roads every time.

So some of you think people like me should never drive. But you only have to look at the threads about non-drivers on here to see that that isn't an acceptable solution either! The only thing that is allowed is someone who learns quickly and then is fearless, and too bad if you don't happen to fall into that category.

Unfortunately a fair number of drivers CANNOT tell the difference and believe their recklessness is just confidence. But it's easy to spot the signs in family and partners. Unfortunately a lot of over confidence gets mistaken as skill rather than aggression and incompetence.

I know a family who have lost the dad due to a dangerous driver being over confident, speeding & losing control, forcing their car off the motorway. Those children never get to see their dad again. I worry I will encounter someone reckless like that on a motorway, I avoid driving in them.

But I also get frustrated when people drive way under the speed limit on A roads, I don’t understand why they drive at 30 on a 50mph road for example in normal driving conditions?

Basically people who are too slow or too fast are hazardous.

I find overcautious and incompetent drivers display traits likely to cause accidents - poor reading of road signs, wrong usage of lanes at roundabouts, poor lane-joining habits onto dual carriageways and motorways. The overconfident fast drivers are extremely easy to predict.

I've been driving for 25 years and very nearly (I have no idea how I reacted to avoid them, on the same road, the A50 into Uttoxeter from Stoke - about a mile before the town centre roundabout just past JCB is a tiny country road that has great long visibility of the dual carriageway, I was travelling an indicated 75 in a Rover 827 (I'd done 144mph on track two weeks prior, fab car). A woman pulled out from the country road with me under 50 meters away. She was 25. And had two babies in the back. How I didn't kill two babies, the woman, myself and everyone in my car (including two young children) I never know and have revisited the moment many times in my head. My hear rates spikes 130+ every time I drive past this point.

The other is just past the town roundabout heading from Uttoxeter to Stoke on the A50. Maybe I've offended Uttoxeter for some reason. A mile down the road there's a hotel & services setup and a slipway to join the road. I had an elderly man pull out on me, doing 70, in his beautiful Jag. I had a car immediately at my right, somehow he hadn't seen me. His wife said he never looks. Somehow we made three lanes.

All I ever ask is that somebody is competent, able to read the road and react proficiently. Driving at 20 in a 30, 50 in a 70, haggling the RHL on a dual carriageway, never moving over for oncoming traffic, poor lane discipline is incompetence, difficult to read and dangerous. If you choose to stick to your own area and never use motorways then you should question what you would do in a diversion onto one; same with darkness. If your answer is you'd shack up for the night in a B&B I'll grant you some leeway. For any of the others, I'll be showing you my exhaust pipes at the earliest possible opportunity - in a safely executed and legally approved manner, of course.

@LolaSmiles

My gut instinct is someone who is genuinely fearful of entirely normal driving experiences is probably an overly hesitant driver in their comfort zone as well.

I think a lot of competent drivers might get a little nervous doing something or somewhere new for the first time, but they wouldn't be scared or fearful or drive in a way that is hesitant and unpredictable for other road users.

Those in the unduly hesitant and nervous camp seem to think that they are cautious and safe drivers, responsible for staying in their limits (which can mean anything from a competent driver having a reasonable preference to drive at quiet times through to an unreasonably fearful driver only having set routes, set areas and dawdling along under the illusion this makes them safer and competent). Meanwhile they view everyone else is overconfident, impatient, and unreasonable for expecting fellow road users to go at empty junctions, not stop at empty roundabouts, drive at a speed that is appropriate for the road and conditions, etc.

Great post, completely agree.

@yawnthisway i assure you, while of COURSE you should take care for unseen hazards, if you're the cause of an accident because you were in the wrong place or crawling along, the blame will not 100% be with whoever hit you.

Or are you one of those people that expect under normal driving conditions that people should slow to 10 mph a a blind bend? You are asked to be cautious, not a danger to the people behind you.

as for the broken down car, you should have a warning triangle in your car to put out to warn other drivers you're there.

www.carkeys.co.uk/news/driving-below-the-speed-limit-can-land-you-a-huge-fine

[quote Excilente]www.carkeys.co.uk/news/driving-below-the-speed-limit-can-land-you-a-huge-fine[/quote]
For driving below fifty on a motorway, yes. Not for doing 25 in a 30 zone!

[quote Excilente]@yawnthisway i assure you, while of COURSE you should take care for unseen hazards, if you're the cause of an accident because you were in the wrong place or crawling along, the blame will not 100% be with whoever hit you.

Or are you one of those people that expect under normal driving conditions that people should slow to 10 mph a a blind bend? You are asked to be cautious, not a danger to the people behind you.

as for the broken down car, you should have a warning triangle in your car to put out to warn other drivers you're there.[/quote]
Right ok but if someone going 20mph just after the blind bend causes you to crash so is a broken down car or a cyclist with or without a warning triangle!

I drive in the peaks a lot. I’m know the roads well so I don’t hold anyone up or anything but there are some bends you just have to slow down on because you have zero visibility round the other side. I’m especially aware of this in some months in summer because of wobbly cyclists. They are legally entitled to cycle two abreast and if you hit one because they were only doing 10mph and you were attempting to maintain high speeds round a sharp bend and so didnt see them before you were right behind them it’s no ones fault but your own.

Ah I misread your warning triangle thing but my point still stands about cyclists. And that’s before you add in things that shouldn’t be in roads but might be like people and sheep and ice.

I used to be like this, and limit my driving. I would never drive on the other side of town because there are some huge, horrible roundabouts that are always busy, and you take your life into your own hands trying to use them!

Then, I met DP. He lives in that part of town. In order to see him, I had to drive on routes I wasn't comfortable with before. I eventually moved in with him, so the routes I always avoided now became part of my daily routine.

Now, I don't even think about it. It wouldn't occur to me to try to avoid those roundabouts anymore. Not ever.

It's obviously entirely up to you where, when and how you drive - but I would say that if you pushed yourself specifically to do what you DON'T feel comfortable doing, you would most likely get over it and be a much better driver for it.

What makes me mad is people presuming a nervous or anxious driver is hesitant!
Iam anxious about the whole driving thing and i find it mentally exhausting. O would describe myself personally as hesitant at all!!
In fact,on the odd time i am hesitant is when i may be unsure of where im going or where im meant to pull in to and someone behind is irrationally impatient that theh have had to wait a millisecond.
I drive at the correct speed.sadly the correct speed isnt enough for most drivers, they want you to go faster than the speed limit

@Allwokedup

Yabu. If you are nervous you are dangerous. You shouldn’t be driving at all.

Fuck Off Allwokedup. OP said she is fine within her confidence. I have driven for 40 years and drive in a crowded Asian city but my confidence and I think ability has declined as I have aged so I actually think more about the route, parking etc. When I am in the UK I don't tend to drive on motorways but I am a very good, safe driver.

What a horrible thing to say to a relatively new driver who is proud of what she has achieved. What has Mumsnet turned into when this is the standard of replies?

@apooagnuandyou

Nervous drivers are unpredictable. If they're driving too slowly for the road, or dithering before making decisions about where they're going/changing their minds at the last minute about what lane they should be in, they can cause accidents. If they drive too slowly on the slip road to join a motorway, they cause the traffic behind them to be too slow to safely join it themselves. If they end up in the wrong lane at a roundabout and have to leave it at the 'wrong' exit, they cause accidents.

that's a lot of "if" and even more confusion about "nervous" and "bad driver".

Nervous driver also means someone who is concentrating really hard and finding driving exhausting,

as opposed to "confident" driver being so confident they get distracted by music, food, conversation, don't bother respecting the rules let alone common sense, zig zag through high-speed traffic, so confident they are on the phone and kill people.

This^

Yawnthisway
The cyclists thing comes under driving in a way that is appropriate for the road and the conditions.

When I used to live rurally I used to joke with friends about the permanent 35mph drivers. They would plod along stretches with good visibility on NSL roads at 35mph, but then also drive through rural villages with 30 zones at 35mph. We also used to notice there were a reasonable number of people who seemed to think every corner needed to be zone at snail pace, though they weren't as annoying as the drivers in summer who were lightly tapping their brakes every 5 seconds in such a way that doesn't actually reduce their speed but sends a message to anyone behind that they're a bit of a twitchy driver. I've also pulled over to let impatient arseholes past as well as I'd rather they were in front of me on country roads than behind me sitting on my back bumper.

If people drive in a way that is appropriate for the roads and conditions then there is no reason for anyone to be crawling along tapping their brakes every 5 seconds, nor is there any reasons for excessive speed.