That friends meet up without me?

[lovevlyt]

I have friends that sometimes meet without including me.

The annoying thing is they all met through me and didn't know each other before. They also have kids, I don't - probably another factor in it.

Do they not understand it's upsetting?

Am I being too sensitive? It really annoys me and part of me feels like distancing myself from them.

YABVU.

You don't get to control who people meet up with, even if you did introduce them initially.

Nope, @IbrahimaRedTwo, I disagree, people do leave people out. The OP is hurt by their actions whether intended or not

OP being hurt does not mean other people did anything wrong. You are using the wrong measurement.
In my example, my friend was hurt and upset and very angry. But that does not mean anyone did anything to her, or did anything wrong.

Not being included in something is not the same thing as being left our.

@Happycat1212

This is interesting because none of my friends that didn’t have children (or had teens etc) have ever wanted to come to the park/ soft play etc, I wouldn’t expect someone to want to do those things that didn’t have small children so I wouldn’t have thought to invite you

Similar except I have one friend who is my children's godmother / they call her auntie who WAS willing to come to soft play ect. I think she may have been using them as market research as she wasn't sure if she wanted kids. But she had to make this clear to me, I wouldn't have assumed it. Normally my adult social life and my "mum" social life are two separate areas on the Venn diagram. My other close non-mum friends are happy with that. Perhaps communication is key.

Also, yes, I hate when people think they "own" me and get a say in who I meet up with and when because they met me first or introduced us or something. My DSis introduced my DB to the woman who's now his wife, but she didn't get to go on their dates and she doesn't have a stake in their marriage. Adults who want to socialise together don't have to ask someone else's permission.

If an established group - say uni friends or the six central characters from a sitcom or something - have a habit of meeting up as a group and then start doing it minus one person, that's excluding someone, but two people who met through you meeting without you is just... Two people meeting. People get to like other people more than they like you, or just get to decide who and how they meet.

@IbrahimaRedTwo

Unless you've been left out or not invited its hard to understand the hurt it causes, whatever the reason

No. If you choose to see it as being left out, if you choose to be hurt, you are. Other people can be in the exact same situation but are able to see that they don't always need to be invited to everything. It's about perspective, not experience.

Well, I expect OP is upset as she is upset that she is going to get dropped from the friendship group altogether. That's a reasonable and realistic fear.

I made a group of friends at a playgroup, and we started to meet socially too outside of that. They all had their second babies at the same time and I went back to work. They set up a whatsapp group just for them that I was not invited to as it was to discuss ' new baby stuff' . I knew then that I would just get dropped out altogether as they had this thing to bond them, and their conversation group as well and I was not part of it. And that is exactly what has happened. I see one of them occasionally but I have no expectation of seeing any of the others or being invited on their joint night outs again. I'm just not part of the group anymore. I understand the reasons for this and I don't think it is personal. But that doesn't stop the outcome, does it?

So its not fair to tell OP that this is just a matter of needing to 'reframe' how she sees things and it will all be fine. I suspect OP can see what is potentially going to happen, that she will get sidelined socially, and she is worried and upset by it. Its a reasonable fear.

Well, I expect OP is upset as she is upset that she is going to get dropped from the friendship group altogether. That's a reasonable and realistic fear

Well it is when she is acting the way she is, yes. Ranting about it being disrespectful to her for them to see each other without her. That's how my ex friend got dropped, not because she had been excluded but because she would bang on and on and on about her perception that she had been excluded.

Similar except I have one friend who is my children's godmother / they call her auntie who WAS willing to come to soft play ect. I think she may have been using them as market research as she wasn't sure if she wanted kids. But she had to make this clear to me, I wouldn't have assumed it. Normally my adult social life and my "mum" social life are two separate areas on the Venn diagram. My other close non-mum friends are happy with that.
Perhaps communication is key.

That’s true my friends use to make comments such as “oh poor you” “rather you than me!” “Couldn’t think of anything worse” so they always made it clear they didn’t want to come

@IbrahimaRedTwo

Well, I expect OP is upset as she is upset that she is going to get dropped from the friendship group altogether. That's a reasonable and realistic fear

Well it is when she is acting the way she is, yes. Ranting about it being disrespectful to her for them to see each other without her. That's how my ex friend got dropped, not because she had been excluded but because she would bang on and on and on about her perception that she had been excluded.

My point is she may end up getting excluded anyway.

Its ok to feel upset and I expect she wanted to use this forum to vent her feelings. How she chooses to behave in RL is up to her. But its just not true to assume that if she conducts herself the 'right way' she will definitely maintain this friendship group (though it is true that how she behaves may mean she definitely loses the friendship group), and it may be that fear of being out of control of what is happening that is causing her to have the feelings she is. Her feelings are legitimate.

I get that you are hurt, it hurts like hell. I have similar but with my mother and sister, always get together but never include me. My sister never thinks to call to me to do something. She has to pass my house to get to my mothers. And before anyway says anything yes i have tried in the past but have now given up. I have gotten over it and moved on and tried to be the bigger person. Yes it does hurt when i drive through town and see them coming out of the coffee shop etc, but i dont let it get to me anymore. Humans have feelings we are allowed to be hurt but it how we deal with it is the main thing

We need to be more realistic about adult friendship. In my experience friendships can only endure with either significant history or because its mutually convenient to, with neither of these things you're more than likely going to drift apart because there is nothing there. Obviously as you get older the opportunity to develop new deep history based friendship wanes so convenience is going to be the more important factor.

I don't see why this has to be so taboo or how it helps to think of adult friendships as being like teenage ones.

OP obviously none of us here know the motivations of these women leaving you out but there are a variety of potential explanations.

I can't really get my head around this. I love introducing friends from different parts of my life to each other and if they met up without me i'd feel glad that they got on so well? Two friends in particular (one I went to school with and one i worked with) met at a bbq of mine a few years ago and now they're inseparable and have been on holiday together. It's a nice thing!

But then I'm not insecure and worried that they'll forget about me. And if they did then they're not really friends are they? Such an odd post

@Loftyswops988

I can't really get my head around this. I love introducing friends from different parts of my life to each other and if they met up without me i'd feel glad that they got on so well? Two friends in particular (one I went to school with and one i worked with) met at a bbq of mine a few years ago and now they're inseparable and have been on holiday together. It's a nice thing!

But then I'm not insecure and worried that they'll forget about me. And if they did then they're not really friends are they? Such an odd post

Yes your post is odd. Its like you can't really imagine someone being different from you, or having different past and present circumstances from you.
Like you say, odd.

[quote lovevlyt]@PurpleDaisies I think it's rude of them to assume that. They could say 'this is happening - we understand if you don't want to come because it will be a kid outing but the offer is there'

That's what someone thoughtful would do, IMO[/quote]
Yeah agree with that. It must be very hurtful OP

No-one has been spiteful @yellow42. The OP has asked for opinions, and people have given them. Holding a different opinion from the OP doesn't make a poster 'spiteful'.

Unless you've been left out or not invited its hard to understand the hurt it causes, whatever the reason

No. If you choose to see it as being left out, if you choose to be hurt, you are. Other people can be in the exact same situation but are able to see that they don't always need to be invited to everything. It's about perspective, not experience.

I 100% agree with this and all @IbrahimaRedTwo's following posts.

I agree with @Loftyswops988 too.
When I bought my flat and decided to ease my finances by taking in a lodger, she was knew to the City and knew no-one, so I introduced her to people and invited her a long to a few things. She then made friends with some of them. Obviously I didn't expect her to invite me along to everything she did. especially my friend that I introduced her to, who she has now been married to for almost 30 years . I was glad to see her settled and happy and to have people to meet up with.

It is only through being on MN far too much that I have heard of so many people who think they somehow 'own' their friends, and are 'hurt' by someone they claim to be their friend saying they've had a nice afternoon / evening / day out. When my friends post a picture of being somewhere nice or doing something nice, my instinct is to be pleased for them that they've had a nice time, not to hat a childish tantrum about the fact I wasn't with them everytime they have a nice time. Now that I do find odd.

They are now independently friends with one another.

My friend B and I went out for a drink once, and our other friend A hit the roof. She was furious with us because we only knew one another because she was a mutual friend of us both. How very dare we go out without including her? Apparently the friendship had to be:
Me = friend of A and A = friend of B.

@BackforGood, they were your lodger not a friend, so a different scenario. I don't for one minute think that someone 'owns' anyone but I think it's thoughtless not to include the friend that introduced you both . It's the polite thing to do. If they decline, that's fine. Not inviting them seems rude to me

I have friends that sometimes meet without including me
I honestly don't see the problem.
I introduced a close friend to my "best friend"
We all get on. However the two women have a couple of dogs each and sometimes meet up for a dog walk and natter. I work erratic hours so not always around at normally sociable hours so they meet up.
I dont feel excluded and its not done in secret. There is no issue at all.
The way it works is sometimes I meet one, sometimes the other, sometimes all three if us.
We still go out together, go on walks. We chat about the other one. " have you heard from Anna, how did she get on with that project " type if thing.
Both women are lovely and fun so why shouldn't we all get on?
I have to say, its happened more than once over the years and I am now friends with other friends of friends.
Over the year it has created a good social circle.

In my experience friendships can only endure with either significant history or because its mutually convenient to, with neither of these things you're more than likely going to drift apart

^^ This!

Friendships deepen when you have things in common or are going through similar life experiences.

I have limited time and energy to meet friends childfree so I save this precious time for friends I really like, friends I have a long shared history and lots in common with.

When I had DC I let a couple of friendships drift. One of my childfree friends met up with us a few times. I tried to make it as pleasant as possible for her but that’s not easy with a toddler. We went to the beach, toddler wanted to build sandcastles and babble, friend wanted my exclusive attention. Then friend decided to swim and wanted me to take photos of her, but I couldn’t get the perfect shot as I was watching toddler. Then toddler got hot and grumpy so we had to leave the beach early.

When toddler had her nap friend took the opportunity to talk endlessly (uninterrupted) about her DH problems, her cats, her new diet, her gym schedule. I listened but struggled to stay awake. It was like we were worlds away from each other.

Friend also showed no interest in my DD, fair enough but nor was I interested in seeing photos of her cats, holidays, ice climbing or faking delight at tales of her job promotion. I listened politely to these monologues but realised we had little left in common.

When DD woke up friend was grumpy because she wanted to go out for tapas and I needed to get DD home as she was whining and overtired. I invited friend to come with us and she did, but she made it clear she was annoyed at DD being centre of attention.

When DH came home friend didn’t understand why he couldn’t take over so we could ‘go out for drinks’. I tried to explain he could but I was shattered and DD would wake at least twice then start the day at 5am (or 4am if I was unlucky!) Nagging an exhausted mum of a toddler to go to a bar is a swift way to cool a friendship. I expected a bit of compassion from her.

Pre kids I would have found it annoying too but when you have one your world revolves around their needs for a few years. Socialising in bars is the last thing someone wants to do when sleep deprived and struggling with PND.

@AnotherCupOfTeaVicar. We became friends very quickly when she moved in. I only mentioned her as an example as she was in my mind as we went out together over the weekend. However,, as notacooldad says I dont feel excluded and its not done in secret. There is no issue at all.
The way it works is sometimes I meet one, sometimes the other, sometimes all three if us.
We still go out together, go on walks. We chat about the other one. " have you heard from Anna, how did she get on with that project " type if thing.
Both women are lovely and fun so why shouldn't we all get on?
I have to say, its happened more than once over the years and I am now friends with other friends of friends.^
Over the year it has created a good social circle.

It really is very normal a) for people to get to know people others have introduced them to, and then to become good friends with them - I mean, surely lots of people you meet, you meet through other friends?
and b) It is normal to go out with different people at different times for different reasons. Sometimes that is a whole gaggle of people, sometimes that is just 2 people, sometimes it is somewhere in between. There has never been any fixed 'border' of who is "in" or "not in" a friendship group as far as I'm concerned. I find the whole concept really odd.

I’ve got a similar thing going on, but it’s due to COVID and restrictions- support bubbles/sisters in our group of friends. If it’s a thing for families, we don’t get invited, if it’s just the women, I get invited and they go and on about how good the family things are. It’s really upset me. I can’t even say we can go and do something else as a family the nights they get together as there is bog all else to do at the moment. It makes me so sad.

*OP I'm sorry you're going through this. One thing you said stuck out, and that was that you haven't said anything.

You're in a lot of pain, and the wall you've built is only causing you to resent your friends, and they might be feeling* it.

This is a really true point - my resentful ness is probably showing through and my distancing from them probably is too - but why me instigating all the time? If I didn't instigate we wouldn't see each other which is what's happened really,

I've heard a belly full and just at a time of my life where I think - shall I just be alone now because this is all causing emotional turmoil.

And I cba with it. Also I don't want to be an elderly loner without friends. I think it hurts too because I've lost many friends over the years because when I drew back - they never bothered. It's happened a few times and maybe it's insecurities from that which make me vulnerable.

Being ghosted isn't new to me and I think it's the fear of that happening making me pull back first before it does.

because I've lost many friends over the years because when I drew back - they never bothered. It's happened a few times and maybe it's insecurities from that which make me vulnerable

So its clearly a long term pattern and the common denominator is you. You have to ask yourself why do you keep doing this pattern? Is that they can sense your hostility and anger and just don't want it in their lives?

why me instigating all the time? If I didn't instigate we wouldn't see each other which is what's happened really

Some people just don’t instigate meeting up.

Either because they don’t care much for socialising and would happily go a year between get togethers (not thinking that’s odd).

Or they have lots of other friends who instigate, or they’re not as social as you. Some people find social situations stressful. Others find certain friends draining.

Others have full on lives with young demanding kids, busy jobs, partners who want to do stuff as a family at weekends. Lots of mums with small kids are in a sort of sleep deprived fog of night feeds, potty training, 5am starts and no time for themselves or a social life beyond play dates (where their mum friends are either in the same state or at least understand if you’re too tired to talk or you yell at your kid for running or you panic when you see a lake or large dog bounding towards them and give the owner a telling off! Or if you’re wearing joggers and a T-shirt with unbrushed hair and mismatched socks!)

OP why don’t you try some walking groups or hobby type classes to make friends? Now lockdown’s lifting things are opening up again and lots of lonely people are looking for friends. Things like outdoor yoga, coffee in the park, nature clubs etc could be a way of bonding with people?

@HippeePrincess

I wouldn’t be bothered by this in the slightest

Nor me. It’s nice when friends you introduce get along and develop their own independent friendships.

If you want to see them, invite them to do something with you?

@IbrahimaRedTwo yeh you could say I am. I guess maybe that's why it's more hurtful for me to deal with.

And yes I do get angry when people last minute cancel plans or find a better offer.

I will never agree that's how to treat people. I work 60 hour shifts and cancel other plans to meet you and then you drop me? I can't deal with flakiness and that's why I say maybe I'm better off with less/no friends