That friends meet up without me?

[lovevlyt]

I have friends that sometimes meet without including me.

The annoying thing is they all met through me and didn't know each other before. They also have kids, I don't - probably another factor in it.

Do they not understand it's upsetting?

Am I being too sensitive? It really annoys me and part of me feels like distancing myself from them.

[user1471554720]

If people are cancelling meet ups frequently, then it suggests that you are meeting up too often. Maybe they woukd be happier with meeting once every 2 months to catch up. I have friends like this. If they are cancelling 4 meet ups out of 5, then I would stop asking. Cancelling lots of meet ups suggests the person either doesn't have time to meet friends or just doesn't want to meet up, but won't say it.

Maybe find out indirectly if they want to meet you less often. It is hard when you are a more genuine person and are more invested in the friendship. I suspect they may want to use each other for childcare. When you don't have dcs yet, it would be cheeky for then to ask you for childcare. A share if people are only friends with others to benefit themselves e.g. free childcare. They may know you are genuine, set store on a friendship and are not like them.

[deardia]

@HikeForward no absolutely nothing to do with our children not getting on, they get on so brilliantly, and absolutely no to my child being wild, my kids are angels when we go to other people's home, I kid you not, my children always get praised for being so well behaved.
However with that friend we often meet when children are at school, so if I was invited to her house, it would just be me and her

[BackforGood]

I haven't seen anyone being obtuse on this thread.
Quite the contrary, I've seen a lot of posters being incredibly patient and trying to explain to you that there seems to be a common denominator in your difficulties in retaining friendships, and trying to suggest how you might be able to help yourself going forwards.
There have been lots of helpful posts, but I suggest you particularly take note of all IbrahimaRedTwo and notacooldad 's posts.

[VodkaSlimline]

OP you have my full sympathy - I can't really improve on the problem page link posted on p1 but the only thing I will say is that it is far worse for single childfree people! Don't you have any single friends? They might have more time for you.

[HikeForward]

That same friend seems to never want me over to her house, everytime we meet she will suggest my house or shopping mall, even when I've suggested her house, she will say she would rather meet up outside, however she often would have friend in common over at her house.

Could it be her child doesn’t get on with yours? Some kids just clash. Or one kid is too intrusive eg going in parts of the house out of bounds, or making a mess with crumbs on the sofa, or being rough with toys. Most play dates are around which children get along around each other at that age, not the mums socialising.

I’m not saying you let your child make a mess or annoy others, but people have different standards in their homes.

I once invited a lovely friend and her DD for a play date. Frustratingly she let her DD eat chocolate wafers all over my sofa (breezily declined a plate) let her DD do things mine isn’t allowed to like climb over the back of the sofas and bounce on the beds, and didn’t help tidy the massive mess the kids created (including letting her DD tip an entire box of Duplo on the floor and mix sticklebricks, jigsaws and Playmobil in heaps). It took me all afternoon to sort out the toys and get the house back in a reasonable state. We only meet in parks now. I still like my friend but I don’t want her DD in my home; friend has a much more permissive parenting style which is fine but I don’t want my DD copying her.

[HikeForward]

My level of flakiness is this - if someone has a genuine reason ie - they are sick or kids unexpectedly sick or an emergency happens or they double booked by accident and decide to stick with original plan then fine.
If they keep doing the above say one out of every two or three planned meets not fine. The frequency is also important.

What you describe as flakiness doesn’t make sense to me. When you have kids you have little control over the ‘frequency’ of cancelled meet ups. Kids get sick way more often than adults, they have more accidents and injuries. They get clingy and tired. Child care has to be arranged to go anywhere without them. A mum who has been up all night with a coughing child or teething baby is unlikely to want to keep a social engagement the next day. I don’t think that’s flakiness, just the exhaustion that comes with motherhood.

You say you arrange/instigate all the meet ups. Maybe you’re doing it too often if they only meet 1 in 3 times. If you put them on the spot they might feel obliged to say yes let’s meet up. It’s hard to say ‘no I’m too tired’ or ‘we don’t have enough in common for another coffee or pub meal’ or think of an excuse on the spot.

Instead of calling others flakey, perhaps it would help to consider your own attitude to friends. Are you good company when you meet? Do you make lively conversation, tell funny stories, ask them about themselves? Are you positive and kind? Or are you simmering with resentment they missed the last arrangement with you? Do you talk a lot about work or your problems?

[SpringCleanDiva]

It does sound a bit childish OP. If you are introduced to someone snd you have lots in common or DC the same age, why would they have to run a struck up friendship by you, a third party? All sounds a bit possessive TBH.

[2bazookas]

Why should you care? I'm pretty sure my friends ( and my family) have lives of their own, contact each other without telling or asking me, and share conversations and activities that have nothing to do with me. I hope so, because I often do the same .

[Bluntness100]

Well this has got a bit odd, because on your other thread you stated yesterday you were ttc?

[PurpleDaisies]

Name change fail?

[hellokitme]

@Juliettbravo Thank you, I also feel some of the posters have been harsh but I posted I guess so appreciate the comments good and bad.

I haven't told them I don't want kids no.

[Juliettbravo]

I feel for you OP. Some unnecessarily harsh comments. Talk about kicking someone when they are down.
I do agree that you can't control other people's friendships. If they want to meet up with their kids, so be it.
That's ultimately up to them and they don't have to explain it to anyone. However it is somewhat thoughtless if you all customarily met up together and suddenly you don't with no explanation why. I think it would be natural to feel resentful and wonder why you'd been excluded. Add to this that they are cancelling at the last minute or not instigating meet ups with you, I think that would irritate anyone.
Agree that it is difficult with little ones, they do become ill or over tired and plans have to be cancelled last minute. I suppose it depends if they apologise sincerely or just flippantly make excuses, the latter could make you feel very much taken for granted.
I think it depends on how close your relationship is with them. If it's worth it, maybe you need to lightheartedly mention how you are feeling. There seem to be quite a few separate issues, work out which one is causing you the most pain and tackle it. In my experience some people are just naturally a bit more self scented. I had a friend who I met up with every monday for a coffee and then a trip to a soft play area.
My turn to text her that week and no answer all morning. It transpired she gone out for the day with her brother to a zoo and didn't even let me know so I could arrange something else. Ok so that's her perrogative but also a bit rude in that she didn't tell me. I know now what's she's like after all these years and just don't get too invested so her loss.
One thing I'd like to ask (and you don't have to answer) is have you deliberately decided not to have children ? If not they may feel very uncomfortable about asking you along with their kids.

[IbrahimaRedTwo]

I actually think this thread is proof that it is just very difficult to be friends with people if you have kids they don't and vice versa

It isn't, because it isn't difficult at all. Unless the people are difficult about it like OP, and then why would you want to be friends with them. I have kids. Some of my friends do and some don't, and its never been an issue at all. I can't even imagine why it would be. Seems to me like people go out of their way to make things awkward.

[Incognitool]

@lovevlyt

I think people are being deliberately obtuse on this thread OP.

I agree that a lot of the posters are being this way because they are probably or possibly the exact flaky people I'm referring to within their own friendship groups.

Honestly, OP, are you also this self-righteous and so insistent you are the only one who is behaving correctly in your RL interactions? Because I really doubt it's attractive to most people to be around someone who is this hellbent on being wronged by any form of social interaction that contravenes her code of good behaviour.

I think the children/no children thing is quite possibly a total red herring in your scenario -- I've certainly never had any issues maintaining friendships when all my friends had children and I didn't. If you continually insist that other people are always in the wrong and are so insistent on seeing yourself as the permanent victim of other people's bad behaviour, is it really that unlikely that people let you drift out of their lives?

[Jeds55]

Totally agree with you about flakiness / constant lateness - it's rude and suggests that they value their time far above yours. As you've said life happens so to be expected on occasion but some people are just flaky.
Re the friends thing I do think that possibly they don't invite you to kid stuff as they think you wouldn't be interested but I would invite a friend regardless, up to you to say yes or no

[GinaJaffacake]

@lovevlyt, are they meeting during the day through the week when you’re at work? You asked earlier how difficult would it be to do it at the weekend but it’s a sort of unwritten NCT/SAHP rule that you meet through the week but weekends are always family time. Meeting is also sporadic or cancelled altogether at Christmas/Easter and over the summer.
Secondly, I’m afraid you do become a bit flakier with young kids. Things that were important no longer are. Things take over like a missed nap or a broken sleep or just sheer exhaustion. I spent quite a few years really not having the energy to go out much at all especially of an evening and spending Saturday doing very little because DH was there to help fire fight was bliss. Fortunately my good friends all had children at a similar time so we were all in the same boat.
The hard truth is that when you have young children you really don’t/can’t give a fuck about the rather high maintenance feelings of a child free friend. I appreciate that sounds awful and it probably is, but it’s also sadly true.

[bunglebee]

I actually think this thread is proof that it is just very difficult to be friends with people if you have kids they don't and vice versa

It's not easy. It takes tolerance and flexibility. And I think people without kids ultimately need to cultivate other friends in the same situation for the baby and toddler years where their friends are bogged down and don't have the bandwidth for the kind of friendship they had pre-kids.

I have one childfree (male) friend who was always willing to have a country walk and cafe breakfast with me and my DC. He played chasing games with my toddlers and let them filch food from his plate, he was understanding when we needed an emergency toilet or to go home early or I had to cancel because they had a temperature. I also made time for, and hugely enjoyed, our adult art exhibition and dinner trips. Now that I'm coming out of the soulsucking preschool years and have more time to do grown up things with him, we're closer than ever. I also have other childfree friends who just don't particularly like spending time with children. That's fine with me, and I see them sans DC, but it does mean I see and talk to them less and they do have to understand that sometimes I have to cancel because I've been up half the night with a teething toddler.

[notacooldad]

I recently asked about how you make friends but you haven't said.
Do you have nonlong term friends.
What about becoming acquainted with people who haven't children but who you ha e mutual interests with and see if a friendship develops.

[Plumbear2]

@lovevlyt

Also don't most people have a limit? Would you really be friend with sale one who cancelled on you say 20 times in a row - for random reasons? Wouldn't you start to doubt them?

I'm a parent so completely understand random and unpredictable things with kids. Mum's meeting other mums with kids are highly unlikely to make you a priority OP. We understand why someone drops out last minute with kids so it works. You putting demands in place dosent work.

[SnuggyBuggy]

If you're cancelling frequently because you 'don't feel like it last minute' not fine.

I think this is the bit people are struggling with.

[lovevlyt]

Also don't most people have a limit? Would you really be friend with sale one who cancelled on you say 20 times in a row - for random reasons? Wouldn't you start to doubt them?

[Plumbear2]

[quote lovevlyt]@Plumbear2 all the time? Patience wears thin I'm only human [/quote]
Parents patience also wears thin when so called friends show no understanding and make demands.

[lovevlyt]

@Plumbear2 all the time? Patience wears thin I'm only human

[Plumbear2]

OP you have put a limit on how many times people can cancel before it becomes unacceptable to you. That's not how it works with young kids. One minute everything fine the next they can have a temp, have a poonarmi, have an accident. If you want to meet up with friends with young kids you do need to accept that things often do change at very short notice.

[lovevlyt]

I actually think this thread is proof that it is just very difficult to be friends with people if you have kids they don't and vice versa.

Either that or posters just haven't read anything I have said properly,

If you cancel occasionally for good reason - fine.

If you're cancelling frequently because you 'don't feel like it last minute' not fine.