Childfree debate - extreme

[ED81]

Might not be the correct section for this....

So my husband and I have spoken and spoken. My mood has been in my boots about my indecision about having children or not. I’ve been very tearful and it’s consumed me over the last 2 months - mainly due to being 40 very soon. I’ve asked him to make the final choice.

He thinks we should be childfree.
My level of indecision was too much and was making me ill. This without doubt has been the hardest debate I’ve had.

I am maternal but that can come in different shapes and forms. Having a child for old age isn’t good enough. Or incase I regret not doing it. We’d not cope with additional needs and that is so unpredictable and a gamble. Obviously lots of screening can happen in pregnancy but not for all conditions such as autism which obviously is a spectrum but can be extreme. My husband is late 40s so apparently the risk increases.

There is no particular reason why we couldn’t have kids. We have good jobs, a nice house and a disposable income but that desire just isn’t there. My husband had said he would if I had wanted but that he has no ambition to be a father. I love and respect him so much for being honest with me. And for potentially doing something that I wanted when he wasn’t keen!

Has anyone else struggled with this choice as much?! I feel a bit mad that it been so difficult at my end.

But looks like we will be childfree. And you know what? We’ll be ok.

I have a child, but I would absolutely never own a dog -- far too restrictive for me.

^Yes, this is true for us, too. Our (adopted) DDs are 12 and 9 and, although DD1 is challenging with SEN, we can take them with us wherever we go. I have 3 cats, who I can leave at home with a cat sitter visiting every day when we go away.

None of that is the case with a dog. My DSis has a dog and I see what a commitment he is for her and her family. I really like him, as I liked their previous dog, but never in a million years would I want to have one! (My DH is allergic anyway so it’s just as well. )

It sounds like you’ve made a joint decision after much soul searching, and you’ve come to a sensible choice.

There are MANY benefits to not having children, and you should only do it if you really want a child (not just a baby). It’s harder to adjust the later you leave it, I think. Your heightened risk re additional needs because of your age is a real factor, so it seems a sensible decision.

Now go and enjoy all those brilliant things childfree people can do!

@Mistressinthetulips

I think you've left it too late, which is a decision in itself.

Oh do F-off.

@osbertthesyrianhamster

The thing about a lot of these men who say 'we' should be childfree is that they never get the snip. If he's serious about never having them then he should walk the walk.

Personally I'd have left him a long time ago and would now, because he can have kids later if he changes his mind. The list of men who do this is legion, even some 'slebs, then they turned around and had a child with a younger woman in record time a few years later.

This is such a strange take. Why are you dictating the contraception choice of people who choose to be child free? Really strange.

@covilha

I think you will regret not having children xx

This is preferable to regret having children that exist and will be in your life forever.

You've put things into strange paragraph form, with thoughts scattered all over the place, but I've just re-read your OP.

I’ve been very tearful and it’s consumed me over the last 2 months - mainly due to being 40 very soon. So you're not just thinking about it. You're crying and it is consuming you.

He thinks we should be childfree. You are crying however and consumed by whether to try for a baby.

Then, We have good jobs, a nice house and a disposable income but that desire just isn’t there. Is it consuming you or is it not? It's a question for you to answer to yourself, not to me. I'm just provoking your thinking gently I hope.

AS FOR THIS SHIT? My husband had said he would if I had wanted but that he has no ambition to be a father. This, loosely translated means, ye, I'll take the condom off and if you get pregnant, I'll be happy to have impregnated you, but really, do not expect me to sacrifice my career, life or anything else to have this child because I do not want a child with you.

I’ve asked him to make the final choice. Wrong decision. If you want to try for a baby and he doesn't, take back control.

You are all been so kind replying.

I’m so glad we aren’t the only ones that have really struggled to decide. Kinda seems that people are normally “yes” or “no”.

@LouKelly. That’ is a very good point. If a stranger wrote this, I’d be saying it’s sounds like “no”.

The decision has made me sick to my stomach to be honest. I truly believe my husband and I will be together forever (maybe that’s naive) and we have discussed having a child since ages. But he’s always been a no thanks and I’ve been ambivalent.

The choice does seem obvious then. Maybe I’m worried about missing out. Who knows.

But I can’t keep torturing myself like this. It’s almost like a form of self harm!

Older sperm is associated with ASD.

Your eggs are older now too.
You are at risk of infertility for a start and a raised risk of abnormalities too.
If you make a pretend final decision now in your head, close the door on it in your head, which way lies happiness? How are you feeling with no children in your future? How are you feeling if you decide to try for a baby with a less than enthusiastic partner? How are you feeling after miscarriage? How are you feeling about IVF? How are you feeling if a baby does arrive and DH won't help out?

@ED81

You are all been so kind replying.

I’m so glad we aren’t the only ones that have really struggled to decide. Kinda seems that people are normally “yes” or “no”.

@LouKelly. That’ is a very good point. If a stranger wrote this, I’d be saying it’s sounds like “no”.

The decision has made me sick to my stomach to be honest. I truly believe my husband and I will be together forever (maybe that’s naive) and we have discussed having a child since ages. But he’s always been a no thanks and I’ve been ambivalent.

The choice does seem obvious then. Maybe I’m worried about missing out. Who knows.

But I can’t keep torturing myself like this. It’s almost like a form of self harm!

Crossed posts with you. Please read my post directly above yours.

He has made the decision for you thus far.

Once it is also your decision, that is the perfect scenario really. You both want the same things.
When your wants or needs diverge, things get complicated.
You need to figure out what you feel you want and then see whether that fits in with your marriage and what he wants.

@interest12 er, excuse me? Is telling posters to fuck off now ok on mumsnet?
Incidentally I had a dc at 42. I am not against older motherhood! I think for the OP to have waited till she is 40 before making this as a now-or-never decision strongly comes down on the side of her not wanting to.
And if my post made her go "no! It's not too late!" then that's great as it shows up strong feelings in either way.

It is possible that you've never been forced into making a final decision up until now, so now that the clock is ticking, it's piss or get off the pot time. You don't have much time to delay a decision any further, so your back is against the wall right now.

It must be extremely stressful to feel forced into making a final decision one way or the other. That would account for your all consuming thoughts and indecision.

None of us can answer. It's good for some, it's shit for some. Some love it, some not so much.

If you can sort out your own thinking on it, you need to ensure that he is fully on board with whichever decision you make. You can't drag a man into parenthood. The word mule comes to mind.

Yeah. I’ve done a lot of reading on older sperm and eggs.

We’d not do IvF or any investigations if we weren’t ever successful with falling pregnant.

Is miscarriage happened I do believe it wasn’t meant to be....realise that is maybe hard to hear for some.

Not sure what a future without a child will feel like?

I wouldn’t want to have a baby with a man who isn’t totally onboards as that isn’t fair in my opinion.

I think he’d do his fair share but we expect to keep up all his hobbies and sleep at night. That would be a major adjustment.

The choice does seem obvious then. Maybe I’m worried about missing out. Who knows.

Missing out on what exactly. That's the thing. If you worry missing out on having an heir so to speak, than that's different to worrying about missing out on plays and games and having to care for someone.

It's a decision which makes you somewhat abnormal in the eyes of many and sometimes that might be difficult to deal with.

At the end of the day, imho if you aren't sure, you shouldn't have one.

I wouldn’t want to have a baby with a man who isn’t totally onboards as that isn’t fair in my opinion. Well that explains your indecision. I suspect you want a baby, he doesn't, so having a baby with him is not an option. What you have to ask yourself now is whether you love him and your life with him enough, to never have a chance at having a child (PS, they grow up and hate you no matter how hard you try and by the time they've stopped hating you they've lives of their own).

The decision has made me sick to my stomach to be honest
I'm going to be a little bit harsh now, I think you're way overthinking this and making it into this massive issue which it really isn't. Either you want children or you don't and you keep saying you don't so what exactly is the problem?
What do you think you'll be missing out on and why is that such a fear for you?

@ED81
For me I never wanted kids. Til my 20s when j was overcome, overpowered and possessed with ‘being broody’. It was my life’s mission to have a baby. The want and desire was so loud I could hear it inside of me. I can only assume if I never felt like this I wouldn’t have had children. I think that your decision not to IS your final decision. And that’s ok

Some of the happiest people I know are child free. It’s not for everyone.

My partner & I are also childfree by our own choice. He's never given any specific reasons (I think if I'd been hellbent on having them he'd have gone along) but he never had a burning desire or said to me "I WANT kids."

My reasons for not wanting kids are mostly that I think having children has to be something you 100% want. And I just didn't want it enough, it's a huge commitment to make. Also with regards to regret, I'd much rather regret not having kids than regret having them. This way the only person who end up suffering from my decision is me - I'm not hurting anyone else.

Not sure what a future without a child will feel like?

Well, you don’t have children now..... so probably just like now really for a guess?

I don’t mean to sound facetious, and I know that you mean ‘watching other people around you with families see their children grow’ but you’re already doing that.

He doesn’t want children.
You’re ambivalent.

You’ve said that yourself.

There is nothing magical or otherworldly about having children. It doesn’t have to be a huge, soul-searching decision. It’s should be a well-thought through decision, but it doesn’t need this degree of hand-wringing.

If you truly wanted them, you would know.

The fact that you don’t means you don’t in my opinion.

Things I hate about parenthood are (purely personal to me):

Fear. Absolute all consuming terror that something is going to happen to them. It never leaves you.

Social life. Gone
Judgement by others. Everyone has to tell you what you're doing wrong. Everyone also has to tell you how to do things. Opinions from different contributors will normally be diametrically opposed.
Cost. Expect to pay equivalent of your rent per month in childcare fees
Career loss. You'll be fucked unless husband is willing to pick up slack 50/50 which he has made clear he is not
Responsibility. Stairs are not just stairs anymore. They are death traps. Your beautiful eiderdown pillows need to get thrown out as baby is allergic. Your artful decor is now insterspersed with various child-friendly devices.

Sleep? Hah! Forget about it.

Sex life. Doubtful for a while
Your body. Depends on whether you are regimented with exercise and nutrition. Again, this will require a supportive partner
Exhaustion. At 40, it's hard to take. Partner has said he doesn't want a child, so you'll be responsible for everything.
Always doing it wrong. This has been the one most prevalent in my thinking. You never feel like you've done it right, no matter what you've done.
Time. You won't have any.
Bodily autonomy. They need you every fucking minute. They will drive you to the edge of reason. and then you look back in years and miss those touches and cuddles and hugs You won't appreciate the love at the time
Anxiety and worry. They burp, you worry, they fart you worry, they don't pee you worry, they don't feed/drink you worry, their poo is green you worry, poo is yellow you worry, they can't say mama you worry, can't crawl you worry, can't walk you worry, are shy you worry, can't make friends you worry, are bullied you WANT TO MURDER THE BULLY, can't learn to read you worry, get a high temp you worry, no friends come to birthday you worry, they won't sleep you worry, come last in the sports day you worry and on and on it goes.

That's the downsides. That's the reality. Along with the worry, is the risk that things could be bad and your anxiety is justified or it could be that you're stressing out over nothing (usually the case) but that fucking stress is constantly there.

I'll post back in a min with my impression of the positives.

Honestly if you are agonising over the decision that much then not having children is probably the best decision to make.
If its not something you really want, why would you do it? Because it's expected? That's not a good enough reason. Would you buy a pet because other people expected you to? Probably not, so why feel pressure to have children?

@Isthereaduckinthehouse your post is brilliant.

A slightly different perspective but I hope it's useful.

I'm a single female who has recently undergone IVF aged 39 and am pregnant. I was married to a man up until age 36 who was ambivalent/undecided about having children since we got together. I now believe retrospectively that my own ambivalence to parenthood during the marriage was somewhat influenced by his attitude and our joint dynamic. As soon as we divorced and I had the head space to think clearly, I realised I wanted to try for a child as soon as was practically possible.

For me, it was the circumstances of that marriage and previous relationships, jobs, housing that prevented me for many years to even allow myself to envisage parenthood. The moment everything fell into place I felt more confident and excited at the prospect of trying. In an ideal world, I would have liked a partner to have been on this journey with me, but I've never met anyone that I liked enough to consider children with after my divorce.

I want the experience of motherhood, I want my own 'adventure' with it, I want that dimension in my life as well as the bonds, memories and the ultimate legacy. For me, a man isn't worth sacrificing this dream for, as the relationship could end at any point, and I'm glad that I'm on this journey now, whatever happens, rather than allowing someone else to take that decision away from me.

If your partner were to leave you, or something untoward were to happen to him, would you regret not having made this decision yourself?

I was going to post what I like, but it's not about me.

It's about you and your husband. He doesn't want a child. He has made the decision for you because not only is it not an option really but it would be foolish of you to have a child with an aging husband who didn't want a child in the first place.
He'd likely be fine to hold the baby for 20 minutes a day after work until the baby started to cry.