Page 14 | Childfree debate - extreme

Frankbutchersfangs · 21/04/2021 13:11

Hey, just wanted to chime in and say I know exactly what you are going through. I went through/am still going through to some extent, the same thing. I’m 42. I didn’t meet my now husband until I was 33, moved in aged 34 and married aged 39.

I’ve never really been a “child person”. Never really crossed my mind about having children until a few years into my relationship with my now husband. It was always a vague “someday I will have children”, rather than a real desire to be a mum or have a family. Then when I got around aged 36 people started dropping hints, hassling about when I was gonna have kids. I remember one conversation on a hen weekend a friend of a friend asked me if I was gonna have any and I kind of said “yeah one day” and she replied, “well you better hurry up then”. And that started the cycle of anxiety. I went home and said to fiancé, let’s go for it. We only did it once without protection and for the rest of that month I was praying I wouldn’t be pregnant. I then said let’s leave it for a while as I’m not sure yet. This went on and on into a long stretch of what you’ve been going through: ongoing anxiety of should I or shouldn’t I?

My friend (who I’ve known since we were children) really put the pressure on. I went to counselling to try and resolve the issue. My main fears were around “what if I’m missing out on an all-consuming love and there is nothing else in this life that will fulfil me as much”, and “who’s gonna come and visit me when I’m older”. Also I just felt abnormal, there’s no other way to describe it. I felt a misfit to society because everyone I knew wanted or had kids. but I just deep down know that I have absolutely no maternal instinct for babies (although for animals it’s a different matter), no patience whatsoever (even get irritated at the cat when she’s being demanding), am such a worrier and like peace and quiet; and more importantly: I need my freedom. Nothing stifles and depresses me more than not being able to come and go as I please, without constraints.

So being the age I am now, I’m mostly at peace with the decision that it’s not going to happen and am looking at ways I can fulfill my life in other ways.

It’s hard because it’s one of those decisions that you can’t take back once you’ve made it - either way. Also, I think society puts immense pressure on a woman to believe that is what we are here for. Heck, even my own sister said to me that’s what humans were put on this earth for, to procreate!!
But, I liked what someone else said further up or maybe I read it somewhere else, we need people to not have kids as much as people to have kids- it balances out society.

Frankbutchersfangs · 21/04/2021 13:18

Also, to the person who said the OP wouldn’t be agonising over the decision if she just didn’t want them, that is wrong on so many levels. I can really relate to you OP, no-one could understand why I couldn’t just decide either to have or not to have them and then be at peace with it but it is the noise from society, work colleagues, social media and friends which make you doubt your instincts not to have kids. You kind of think to yourself “well I don’t think I want them, but am I deluded??”

Whereismymojo · 21/04/2021 13:25

@Isthereaduckinthehouse

Ok, now to my perceived positives of having a child

You will be handed the most beautiful child the world has ever seen doesn't matter if he resembles a sunburned toad
The gut punching sense of love and responsibility will be something you'll never experience for anything else
Their little hands. They will put their little hand around your little finger and the joy is like nothing else.
You get to pick a name! This, is something which you will obsess over for 9 months. It's a monumental decision which could potentially affect their career prospects. it won't, but you don't want to call them Popette in case they want to become a judge or something You get to pick someone's name!
They adore you. No questions asked. You are their everything.
About 6 weeks in they smile when they see you! Nobody's smile, ever, in the whole wide world will ever compare to that
They do nothing for a while only stress you out, but they have good lungs when crying so you wonder whether they might become an opera singer, but then one day they start to say 'da da da da da da da da'
Then they start to sit up and you are pretty sure they are showing signs of becoming an Olympic athlete. This promise can be displayed as young as 9 months.
The start to crawl and you are sure you have a worthy opponent to Usain Bolt
They headbutt you and you feel a rush of love
They ate some organic something or another and you can see that they were born with exquisite taste
Granny thinks that Mensa isn't a sufficient organisation for the level of intelligence your baby displays
You dress them up, take photos and you get 2 likes on Facebook! That's because the rest of your friends are jealous of how beautiful your child is.
They start to walk. Wow. Just wow.
They say Mamma. You cry.
They are adorably cute and come to you for cuddles and reassurance when upset. They love you wholly and completely and without question.
Your mother enters them in a Bonny Baby competition and they win. You object to the objectification of babies but the trophy is displayed nonetheless.
They clap their hands at singalong. Definitely clapping in time to the music compared to the other babies.
And on and on and on

I ageee with you, your post made me smile.

I was entirely un-maternal. It’s actually not a rational decision IMO to become a mum, not for me.

I got pregnant, unexpectedly, 38. Had no love for babies, never changed a nappy before etc.

Someone up stream said it’s not a right or wrong, it’s just a different path. I completely agree. But it’s a path with WAY more highs and lows, and I feel alive in a way I hadn’t, throughout my 30s, and it’s great. And I love so much more deeply now, for having kids.

Original poster

ED81 · 21/04/2021 13:54

@Frankbutchersfangs. Thank you! We sound like the same person.
It’s really is awful and overwhelming - only words that’ can some it up.

I’m using counselling too.

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Frankbutchersfangs · 21/04/2021 16:31

[quote ED81]@Frankbutchersfangs. Thank you! We sound like the same person.
It’s really is awful and overwhelming - only words that’ can some it up.

I’m using counselling too.[/quote]
Glad your getting counselling. The one thing I discovered in my counselling about my anxiety towards whether to have kids or not, is that my head was saying no, and my body was saying yes - all to do with hormones and my body trying to get me to do what humans do - procreate.

I have the same temperament as my sister and all she does is shout and scream and tear her hair out at her kids (and they avoid her for it) whilst she says to me “Aren’t you gonna have kids? It’s a wonderful experience !!!”
My theory is this: it’s a wonderful and delightful experience if that’s what you’ve always wanted and if you haven’t, then it won’t be. I’m not saying some people don’t accidentally have them and then go on to enjoy it, but the odds are stacked more against it. At least if you know that deep down inside you always wanted it, you can console yourself with that when times are stressful.

I think the trick for you now is to work out do you really want a child without all the external noise? Is something missing from your life right now or are you quite content with your life (if u didn’t have this anxiety)?
Would u be happy to be a parent if your husband left or would u wish you’d never too the plunge? Also, what if the child had a disability- would that change your desire for a child?

Incognitool · 21/04/2021 18:03

@ED81, see if you can find posts from a poster who may or may not still be on here, but often had thoughtful things to say about deciding whether or not to have a child, a decision she definitely didn't find straightforward -- I think she was called @Lottapianos? She often posted on 'deciding about children threads'. I think she decided not to have a child in the end, though I could be wrong about that. She often recommended a forum or site called Gateway Women.

Lottapianos · 21/04/2021 18:08

Hi there, I'm still here, thanks for thinking of me! I'm 41 now and don't have any children. I'm mostly glad and grateful about that but boy do I have my moments, and OMG have I had my wobbles over the years!

I can't recommend Gateway Women enough - such a supportive community, and they have really helped me to clarify my thinking over the years

Incognitool · 21/04/2021 18:24

@Lottapianos

Hi there, I'm still here, thanks for thinking of me! I'm 41 now and don't have any children. I'm mostly glad and grateful about that but boy do I have my moments, and OMG have I had my wobbles over the years!

I can't recommend Gateway Women enough - such a supportive community, and they have really helped me to clarify my thinking over the years

It's like magic!

You won't know me, as I NC once a week, but we have agreed on various threads about random things, including the 'deciding whether or not to have a child' threads. And though I ultimately decided to have a child, whom I adore, it was definitely not a straightforward or wobble-free decision at the time -- but I don't think that's any indication that the person who wobbles is going to be a better or worse, or a happier or sadder, parents than those for whom it's a falling off a log thing.

I think what I remembered about your posts is that you were upfront about the fact that it had taken you a while and some heartsearching to make up your mind.

Original poster

ED81 · 21/04/2021 18:26

@Lottapianos. Thanks. I’ll have a look. It’s nice to meet some like minded people who have this crazy debate with no easy answer. It’s a relief to find that I’m not alone in the mad turmoil.

And thanks to @Incognitool for remembering the user name!

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Mollylikestodance · 21/04/2021 18:33

As she says in Eat Pray Love...

Having a baby is like getting a tattoo on your face. You really need to be certain it's what you want before you commit.

Your life will be no less rich or fulfilled by not having children - just different. There will be different enriching, wonderful and fulfilling things. I didn't really know if I wanted children... until suddenly I did with every fiver of my being. And it's bloody hard and life changing and I think if I hadn't felt the way I did I would end up resenting them.

If you're hearts not truly in it, I say follow another path x

Lottapianos · 21/04/2021 18:54

That's a good quote from Eat Pray Love 😊

The ambivalence can be an absolute killer. Everyone thinks that women either want children or they don't, and the reality can be SO much more complicated. I really struggled with the loneliness, which is why I found Gateway Women a real lifeline, as well as some like minded posters on here. Ambivalence around parenthood is not discussed or understood anywhere near enough

TedMullins · 21/04/2021 19:04

I do understand completely what you’re saying OP, that your emotions don’t fit into the yes or no box and you feel torn between the two. But the fact is you’ve asked your husband to make the final choice so either you own that choice and make an active decision to embrace it and stop agonising or you carry on torturing yourself by going round in circles in your mind. You’re in control of your choices. You started this thread sounding like you were accepting and embracing the choice but have sounded less like that as it’s gone on which is what I meant when I said it’s causing you a disproportionate amount of agony for someone who’s made their choice. If that is your choice and you’re going to stick with it then is all this navel gazing actually helpful?

Delphinium20 · 21/04/2021 19:16

I always wanted to be a mother - and I really love it.

HOWEVER.

I have relatively easy kids who have similar interests to me-just 2 DD and I'm loving that we are out of the 24/7 parts and they are more independent. I had my youngest at 38 and am so grateful she was an easier baby than the first as I'm so damn tired over a decade later now that I'm middle aged and menopausal.

Now the girls are feeling more like friends than work and I know I could never have been so happy with motherhood if I'd had 5 rowdy types tearing up my garden and house instead of the 2 easygoing, tidy ones I have. I'm sure I'd love them the same, but life IS easier with the ones I have.

OP, if you like your life now, it might just be enough. I can't tell you what to do, but motherhood is just one aspect of life, it's not a requirement.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 21/04/2021 19:17

@TedMullins

I do understand completely what you’re saying OP, that your emotions don’t fit into the yes or no box and you feel torn between the two. But the fact is you’ve asked your husband to make the final choice so either you own that choice and make an active decision to embrace it and stop agonising or you carry on torturing yourself by going round in circles in your mind. You’re in control of your choices. You started this thread sounding like you were accepting and embracing the choice but have sounded less like that as it’s gone on which is what I meant when I said it’s causing you a disproportionate amount of agony for someone who’s made their choice. If that is your choice and you’re going to stick with it then is all this navel gazing actually helpful?

I agree with Ted here unfortunately

Incognitool · 21/04/2021 19:19

@Lottapianos

That's a good quote from Eat Pray Love 😊

The ambivalence can be an absolute killer. Everyone thinks that women either want children or they don't, and the reality can be SO much more complicated. I really struggled with the loneliness, which is why I found Gateway Women a real lifeline, as well as some like minded posters on here. Ambivalence around parenthood is not discussed or understood anywhere near enough

See, I don’t think the face tattoo really works as a metaphor for having a child. It would only work if the majority of people (though fewer than in times past) got a facial tattoo — many more than one — and if there remained a distinct current of social pressure to get one, and a stereotype that bare-faced people, especially women, were selfish hedonists who were also somehow missing out on the best of all human experiences and by not getting a facial tattoo. If they were told that the moment they got a facial tattoo, they would start to see the world in Technicolour.

Frankbutchersfangs · 21/04/2021 19:28

I agree with this. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve been called selfish and that if you don’t have kids then what else is there?

Frankbutchersfangs · 21/04/2021 19:32

BTW, from personal experience it’s not navel grazing (which implies self indulgence) its heart rendering anxiety to not know whether or not you are making the right choice on a life altering decision that cannot be changed in the future.

TedMullins · 21/04/2021 19:47

But the OP has made a decision, or at least asked her husband to make it. What’s the point in that if you aren’t then going to make an effort to embrace that decision? Also as several people including myself have said, far better to live with regret of not having children (and it’s not a given that you will regret not having them) than regret bringing children into the world that you’re then stuck with forever

RaeRaeMama · 21/04/2021 20:20

@ED81

Might not be the correct section for this....

So my husband and I have spoken and spoken. My mood has been in my boots about my indecision about having children or not. I’ve been very tearful and it’s consumed me over the last 2 months - mainly due to being 40 very soon. I’ve asked him to make the final choice.

He thinks we should be childfree.
My level of indecision was too much and was making me ill. This without doubt has been the hardest debate I’ve had.

I am maternal but that can come in different shapes and forms. Having a child for old age isn’t good enough. Or incase I regret not doing it. We’d not cope with additional needs and that is so unpredictable and a gamble. Obviously lots of screening can happen in pregnancy but not for all conditions such as autism which obviously is a spectrum but can be extreme. My husband is late 40s so apparently the risk increases.

There is no particular reason why we couldn’t have kids. We have good jobs, a nice house and a disposable income but that desire just isn’t there. My husband had said he would if I had wanted but that he has no ambition to be a father. I love and respect him so much for being honest with me. And for potentially doing something that I wanted when he wasn’t keen!

Has anyone else struggled with this choice as much?! I feel a bit mad that it been so difficult at my end.

But looks like we will be childfree. And you know what? We’ll be ok.

Have you heard of that podcast To Baby or Not to Baby?

Just sounds like you might enjoy it.

If it were me and I struggled that much with the indecision, I would just have one. It's a baby not a bomb. I just think if you didn't want one it would hurt you so much to make the final decision, you just would want one.

RaeRaeMama · 21/04/2021 20:24

Sorry wouldn't*

wombatspoopcubes · 21/04/2021 20:57

I absolutely did want children and had my daughter at 41. I love her to bits, wouldn't be without her but also can see that this life wouldn't suit everyone and I do miss some things of my childless life. You basically have to choose if you want to spend your life putting all your time and energy in the development of someone else or yourself. You can't do both. There is no wrong answer just your choice.

Original poster

ED81 · 22/04/2021 07:37

Thanks all.
Yeah, no right or wrong answer.

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