Childfree debate - extreme

[ED81]

Might not be the correct section for this....

So my husband and I have spoken and spoken. My mood has been in my boots about my indecision about having children or not. I’ve been very tearful and it’s consumed me over the last 2 months - mainly due to being 40 very soon. I’ve asked him to make the final choice.

He thinks we should be childfree.
My level of indecision was too much and was making me ill. This without doubt has been the hardest debate I’ve had.

I am maternal but that can come in different shapes and forms. Having a child for old age isn’t good enough. Or incase I regret not doing it. We’d not cope with additional needs and that is so unpredictable and a gamble. Obviously lots of screening can happen in pregnancy but not for all conditions such as autism which obviously is a spectrum but can be extreme. My husband is late 40s so apparently the risk increases.

There is no particular reason why we couldn’t have kids. We have good jobs, a nice house and a disposable income but that desire just isn’t there. My husband had said he would if I had wanted but that he has no ambition to be a father. I love and respect him so much for being honest with me. And for potentially doing something that I wanted when he wasn’t keen!

Has anyone else struggled with this choice as much?! I feel a bit mad that it been so difficult at my end.

But looks like we will be childfree. And you know what? We’ll be ok.

@Leobynature

**It's not a worse or better life with or without them, it's just different.

I am pro choice; women can have a fulfilling great life without children and no woman should feel the pressure to be a mother. I remained child free until mid 30s and personally my life is better with my daughter in it. Prior to her being born I mainly went shopping, drinking and binged watched TV. Now do a lot more outdoor activities, baking, socialising and teaching her etc. She makes me laugh, she is fun to be with and she gives me purpose . No amount of holidays or money could replace her. That being said she is a happy, healthy and easy child. I have recently had baby number 2 and I hope they are as easy.

Having a child is a huge sacrifice and if you are not committed don’t do it.

I'm also pro choice regarding having children or not. I'm currently pregnant and have commented before (single, 39 IVF treatment), however I just wanted to reflect on the above poster's comment. Other than simply wanting to nurture and have my own family, I've also reflected on what my life looks like at the moment and what it most probably will look like in the future, if I chose not to have children. I don't want to just be 'throwing' myself into more work, I like my job but it certainly isn't meaningful, or fill my time with yet more holidays, hobbies, lie ins, shopping etc. Yes, I welcome all of these activities but they aren't meaningful or fulfilling enough for me to replace having my own family. Of course the fear of the unknown can be scary, but doesn't everything we do carry an element of taking a leap of faith? I'm being a little bit philosophical about this...

@ED81

I’m not sure what the answer is. Even during the course of this thread I’ve changed my mind a hundred times.

Hi OP,

Imagine you took a pregnancy test tomorrow and it was positive- do you have a gut feeling about it? Or imagine you're 80 and reflecting back on your life- what would you have liked it to look like?

There is actually a chance that it's not possible at 40 so the decision might be made for you. In your situation, I personally, with completely different life experience/feelings/perspective/lifestyle, would definitely be trying for a baby but it's such a personal decision.

@nanbread

Oh and I would LOVE a child free friend to be an unofficial "auntie" to my kids.

Unofficial? Kinda mean of you...my friends kids all call me auntie. I treat them as though they are my family and I would expect them to cibsider me family as they get older and visit me when I'm in my nursing home too! Because you don't have to be blood related to be family. And if you truly want your child free friend to be there for your kids, you embrace them as family not as "unofficial" free childcare help for you in the difficult years. I'm hoping you didnt mean this.

OP, I know the dilemma...one thing I always think about is how you are not raising children...you are raising future adults. That is the more terrifying responsibility. I do think we focus the debate too much on "kids" when they will be adults much longer. Are you prepared to raise a good adult? I would think of it that way....rather than kids at christmas

I think too much is made of how hard parenting is and how it's such a huge decision, your life and relationship will never be the same, your career is over, your social life is over etc etc.
But the truth is people have vastly different experiences of parenthood and how hard you find it depends on many factors such as how easy/hard your pregnancy and birth are, how much your partner pulls his weight and the quality of your relationship in general, how much family support you have, your personality and the personality of your child, whether there are any health issues, your money situation etc.

Personally I haven't found motherhood nearly as hard as I was led to believe (so far anyway). I conceived quickly, had a relatively easy pregnancy, elective C section, quick recovery, easy going baby that slept through the night since 5 weeks old, good eater and is generally a happy kid most of the time. My husband does his fair share and our relationship hasn't really changed that much. I still do my hobby and he does his, we just take turns looking after DD. The only difference is it's now a once a week thing rather than 3 days a week.
I still have a social life, in fact I've made more friends (other parents) through DD. Its just different...now it's weekend lunch/coffee/play date rather than full blown night out. My career is fine, in fact I've just got my dream job. Both DH and I have flexible working.
So I still have most of my old life, but now there's a child in it as well, and it's infinitely better. Sure, there are extra responsibilities, some difficult moments and you do have to make some adjustments, but you just get on with it. I'm certainly not living a life of drudgery and rocking in a corner with the booze.

Of course I realise my experience isn't universal, I'm not trying to be smug or dismiss the experience of people who do struggle and find parenthood hard. Just trying to show the other side. So if you do want a baby, don't make it into this big scary thing.

Ultimately though, no one else can tell you whether you should have a child or not. Everyone is speaking from their own experience, which won't necessarily be your experience.

The main reason - imo - that people campaign for other people to have children is that they know how miserable it is and misery loves company.
Honestly there are zero benefits to having kids and a whole load of relentless misery that ruins your life. And it’s constant.
For example after being at work all day I then went and collected dd (5h from after school club and had to go to the post office. Drove to post office. She announces she needs a wee. Can you wait? No. I need a wee I need a wee I need a WEE. I had to leave post office queue, go and find toilets that were open, trail back, re queue, everything takes three times as long and it’s thankless.
It’s like looking after yourself ten times over, that’s how much work it is. But a really whiny, demanding, stubborn version of yourself that actively hinders anything you try and do. 😬

All my dc is ask for stuff and want stuff and moan and make me feel like I’m doing a rubbish job. Nothing I do is ever enough for them and once you are a mum your needs come last and no one cares. If you’re ill you just have to carry on. If you’re tired you just have to carry on. If you want to relax and have some time to yourself, you just have to carry on.
Honestly it’s miserable. I’m trying to think of a positive and drawing a blank. I mean I love them, but I massively regret them. I would be distraught if anything happened to them because I love them so much but that love isn’t a good thing - it’s a thing that now has control and fear over me. I’m forever bound up in their happiness. I’m really hoping they will both move away when older and be independent pretty quickly.

I’ve never asked anyone I know to be honest!

Well my own mother didn't want children - or rather didn't want me! It was clear how she felt and it has affected me throughout my life. Whether it has influenced my decision not to have children, I don't know. Maybe possibly because I didn't have a good role model and didn't really understand what having a proper mother was like.

I have had women tell me they regret having children and that they struggle to continuously pretend to not feel the way they do and hide it from their children and the rest of society. Most of these women were ones who didn't think about whether they wanted them, but did it because it was expected. The next step. Society's expectations of women. They were also told they were suffering PND and that they should get treatment and then they'd feel the way they were supposed to - so they did, but the feelings never came.

I think one of the problems with parenthood is you don’t know what you’re going to get! My first child was a nightmare, screamed from the second she was born, never slept, really hard work as a toddler/preschooler. Even now at 6, she’s prone to a good whinge and truth be told I don’t find her easy at all. I also have a 7 month old so extremely aware things can and probably will change but so far she’s the opposite. Very chilled, very easy to look after, sleeps well.

I guess it’s the chance you take when becoming a a parent. But be aware you could end up with a colicky baby, a child who doesn’t sleep through for years, you may end up with a child with ASD. The list goes on...

On the brighter side I could not imagine life without my girls and I do look forward to the future with them.

Enjoy being child free and be proud.

I've wanted kids every single day for pretty much my whole life. It's still so so hard. It's biological, not logical. There's nothing wrong with what you have done.

Ah gawd!! It’s so complicated isn’t it. I hate to have a baby and hate the whole experience. That’s so impacting on everyone And like you say, you don’t know.

@Lelophants. I’m sorry it didn’t work out for you.

I’m trying to limit my time on this site and social media. My anxiety raises.

My own opinion here, and especially regarding your OH at late 40s. If you were to have a child now, your entire life changes completely and when you have lived your live child free for that long I'm sure the change would be a huge shock!!
The trouble with having children is that it is so, so intense, all of the time. Every emotion is to the extreme. The tiredness, the worry, the physical pain you feel if they get hurt or are upset, difficulties with physical or mental issues. School issues, friendship issues, behavioural issues. The list goes on and on. And as I say it is all so intense.
I also presume your parents are elderly, do they require or will require care from you both at the same time as raising a young child.?

Also you mention about the joyous occasion such as Xmas. If you search for Xmas posts here on mumsnet you will find hundreds of posts about the stresses and upsets at Xmas and how the children have been upset /naughty /overwhelmed etc. Don't get me wrong, there are joyous moments and I love my kids more than anything but these are the realities that no one told me about as a 25 year old

but these are the realities that no one told me about as a 25 year old

But the OP isn't a naive 25 year old skipping into some rose-tinted vision of motherhood, she's a woman in her 30s who certainly isn't buying the Disney version of having children.

My own opinion here, and especially regarding your OH at late 40s. If you were to have a child now, your entire life changes completely and when you have lived your live child free for that long I'm sure the change would be a huge shock!!

But you can flip that on its head too -- DH and I were both 40, and were very chilled about taking a step back from things for a while, because we'd had a good 20 years of extremely free adulthood where we were able to take risky jobs or quit at the drop of a hat, move to another country because we fancied it, live in ropy communal situations, travel, make decisions not conducive to family life. It's not that we won't do that again, but we're not in mourning for it, as we did it for years. It was nice to have a change of focus.

Obviously not saying this is the same for everyone, but it's certainly possible that older people are more relaxed about the changes of parenthood because of less FOMO. And having money and the flexibility that comes with seniority at work has really helped.

@Lemurlongtail I can very much relate to what you have written. I adore my kids but I didn't have a clue of what having children really truly entailed and no one had ever told me anything negative.
My eldest child has always been very very hard work and has a lot of problems. I don't think he will manage well to live independently as an adult and will probably need to live with us always. I have no issue with this at all but I didn't think or consider any of these things at all when I chose to start ttc at only 25

@Incognitool I see where your coming from. And agree in part.
I have unfortunately seen a few husbands of that age in couples we know who have had kids late after being together a very long time get incredibly jealous that the wife's attention is no longer on them as the main focus and one even left her. I'm not saying at all that this would happen to the OP, as her husband sounds lovely

[quote Kpbffyjjgfi]@Incognitool I see where your coming from. And agree in part.
I have unfortunately seen a few husbands of that age in couples we know who have had kids late after being together a very long time get incredibly jealous that the wife's attention is no longer on them as the main focus and one even left her. I'm not saying at all that this would happen to the OP, as her husband sounds lovely[/quote]
I certainly do know one father who would fit your description, but I think it’s not chronological age or length of pre-child relationship for him, it’s more that he’s a low-energy person who can’t cope with an extra claim on his low resources...

@ED81

Ah gawd!! It’s so complicated isn’t it. I hate to have a baby and hate the whole experience. That’s so impacting on everyone And like you say, you don’t know.

@Lelophants. I’m sorry it didn’t work out for you.

I’m trying to limit my time on this site and social media. My anxiety raises.

Really get the “trying to limit time on this site and social media” as am same but also find it so interesting reading different takes on the subject.

My two cents for anyone that's interested, if you're even the slightest bit unsure I'd say don't have kids. It's the hardest thing I have ever done, physically mentally and emotionally. My DD is 4. Since her birth I have had a separation from her father, a diagnosis of a chronic condition, mental health issues and now she is under investigation for autism. I love her and its the most rewarding thing ever, but it's also extremely hard and if I could turn back time I would stay child free

Yeah, @TeabagsAtDawn. I do find it helpful too but just mindful of the time I spend as my old brain starts to work overtime.

The different takes are variable. It’s so individual and down to pot luck a lot of the time! Love or hate parenthood....who knows where the throw of the dice would land. That’s what it’s feels like, attempting to enter some crazy game. You just don’t know.

Having kids for me - and I appreciate I might be in the minority - means my life has become a long series of boring things I don’t want to do. And I get no thanks for doing them. In fact, from my older dc I get attitude.
I am downtrodden and can’t remember the last time I did anything I wanted to do, even pre covid.
I love them hugely but if I’d known what I know now I wouldn’t have had them. I know they aren’t there to serve my enjoyment or make me happy but they actively make me unhappy and stressed and tired.

But looks like we will be childfree. And you know what? We’ll be ok

I’m sorry OP, but what a load of self-indulgent twaddle.

Oh course you’ll be ok. You’ve been happy not having children for many years, you don’t have a burning desire to have them. You’ll continue carrying on as you are and everything will be fine.

You’re spending much more time thinking about not having children than most people spend thinking about having them. You’re fine, you’ve done your due diligence. You don’t have to keep convincing yourself that your decision is right. You don’t have to keep convincing everyone else of how much you’ve agonised over this. Your decision is valid.

Don't you think it's you were really really comfortable with the childless decision then you wouldnt be doing all this agonising?

@Lemurlongtail, that sounds tough. Sorry you feel that way. I hope it will improve as time goes by and that you have support?

@VodselForDinner. You are entitled to say as you wish but believe me none of this has been self indulgent! And nor would I say it’s twaddle. It’s been agony to be honest. I wish it was as easy as some women say. You either say “yes” or “no” to children. Life is not all black and white. If only! I do believe my decision is valid but so is the thinking before.

I don’t really get why you’re still feeling anxious, torn and upset over it then? You’ve said you don’t strongly desire children and your life as it is now is happy. So nothing changes. Maybe you’ll wonder what it could’ve been like if you had children or get a pang of regret but that’s infinitely preferable to wishing you’d never had children, when you’re a parent. But it seems like the finality of the decision is very upsetting for you in a way that’s disproportionate to someone who doesn’t particularly want kids.

@TedMullins. Your first sentence says it all. You don’t get it. Like I say not every person fits in the yes or no box. Some decisions are far more difficult (for lots of reasons) for some. That’s life and that’s people.