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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Childfree debate - extreme

347 replies

ED81 · 18/04/2021 08:23

Might not be the correct section for this....

So my husband and I have spoken and spoken. My mood has been in my boots about my indecision about having children or not. I’ve been very tearful and it’s consumed me over the last 2 months - mainly due to being 40 very soon. I’ve asked him to make the final choice.

He thinks we should be childfree.
My level of indecision was too much and was making me ill. This without doubt has been the hardest debate I’ve had.

I am maternal but that can come in different shapes and forms. Having a child for old age isn’t good enough. Or incase I regret not doing it. We’d not cope with additional needs and that is so unpredictable and a gamble. Obviously lots of screening can happen in pregnancy but not for all conditions such as autism which obviously is a spectrum but can be extreme. My husband is late 40s so apparently the risk increases.

There is no particular reason why we couldn’t have kids. We have good jobs, a nice house and a disposable income but that desire just isn’t there. My husband had said he would if I had wanted but that he has no ambition to be a father. I love and respect him so much for being honest with me. And for potentially doing something that I wanted when he wasn’t keen!

Has anyone else struggled with this choice as much?! I feel a bit mad that it been so difficult at my end.

But looks like we will be childfree. And you know what? We’ll be ok. Smile

OP posts:
Cleverpolly3 · 18/04/2021 19:48

@TedMullins

*And I always get a bit irritated about the I can’t be arsed with the hard work shite It’s hard work but the rewards are by and large immense. Beyond anything else I she’s ever worked hard for and as I came to motherhood relatively late on as an modern woman I feel qualified to say that.

By all means don’t have children but please don’t turn this debate into something denigrating children and parenthood

The truth is if you chose not to have children there is fuck all you’d walk back into a burning building for or do anything for.Until or unless you have children you aren’t equally blessed and equally burdened with that overwhelming feeling.*

Seriously? Not wanting the hard work of parenting is in no way denigrating parenthood or children. Some people are desperate for kids, love parenting and thing all the low points, sacrifice and yes, hard work, is worth it, and that’s great! Good for them. Honestly, I’m not being sarcastic. For others, the hard work is not worth it and does not appeal. They’re unbothered or actively adverse to everything to do with parenthood - pregnancy, birth, baby care, lack of sleep, bodily fluids, stress, tantrums, lack of freedom etc. That’s also fine. The fact that some people are willing to take on the above and enjoy parenthood is not in any way diminished by the fact some people don’t want any part of it. And you can’t presume to know what people would or wouldn’t run into a burning building for. Non parents might not experience what it’s like to have and love a child, but it’s patronising and incorrect to say they won’t experience ‘proper love’ at all. There are many types of love and they don’t have to involve having kids. Some people are fine with the thought of never experiencing the love for and of a child. And some parents, unfortunately, wouldn’t run into a burning building for their child. A relative of mine’s mother told him for his entire childhood that she wished her abortion had worked, and they haven’t spoken now for over 30 years. Not everyone should be a parent.

I’m not saying they don’t experience love I’m not saying everyone should be a parent especially the OP if her husband would could before a child.

The hard work comments are just pathetic and patronising because unless you live under a rock you know it’s hard work. And???

The truth is for the vast majority of people - not your friends mother obviously - having a child puts most other love in the shade - as it should

I’m not remotely apologetic
Please don’t expect me to be
Until I had children I might have had more headspace for your post but since I have I don’t.

This is a discussion so I am happy for you and others to disagree

ED81 · 18/04/2021 19:51

@TedMullins. Thank you.

I’m by no way what to piss people off by saying I can’t be arsed with the hard work that goes with children. But that’s how I feel. Some people wish to do it and long for it but that’s not the part I’d like and something that puts me off having a child.

And I do feel “proper love”. It’s with my husband. Im so fortunate to have found that.

OP posts:
TedMullins · 18/04/2021 19:54

@Cleverpolly3 why does the idea of people not wanting children or the hard work that comes with it touch such a nerve? Who are you trying to convince that it’s such a great thing, us or yourself? If having children means I’d end up with your attitude that’s even more reason to remain childfree!

Cleverpolly3 · 18/04/2021 19:58

[quote ED81]@TedMullins. Thank you.

I’m by no way what to piss people off by saying I can’t be arsed with the hard work that goes with children. But that’s how I feel. Some people wish to do it and long for it but that’s not the part I’d like and something that puts me off having a child.

And I do feel “proper love”. It’s with my husband. Im so fortunate to have found that.[/quote]
Listen I’m not telling you to have a kid!

But you started this thread and I have contributed.

I felt “proper love “ before I had a child
Nobody is saying love for a man or woman isn’t proper love

In my experience , Love for a child that you carry and give birth to with the person you love is like the evanescence of every love you have ever felt
At least it was for me. It was totally different and like nothing else.

All i’m doing is sharing my view.
Don’t just deal with people who are mollifying you or what is the point of garnering opinions somewhere like this?

As I said whatever you decide all the best at the end of the day it means nothing to me

Cleverpolly3 · 18/04/2021 19:59

[quote TedMullins]@Cleverpolly3 why does the idea of people not wanting children or the hard work that comes with it touch such a nerve? Who are you trying to convince that it’s such a great thing, us or yourself? If having children means I’d end up with your attitude that’s even more reason to remain childfree![/quote]
I can’t even be bothered to unpick the level of neurosis behind your digs at me

So don’t bother Grin

Sunshin388 · 18/04/2021 20:23

OP, @Cleverpolly3 is trying to give you the other side of the story because everyone here is minimising the real reason people have kids. A lot of things in life are hard work. Why do people have high pressure careers? Why do people go to school or get Phds? Because of the rewards. Parents are not all frazzled alcoholics hating life. So don't kid yourself that all mothers are depressed and overwhelmed. Most aren't. And regarding your DH - a lot of women thought they discovered true love and were then disappointed. I'm not saying that to put you down, I'm saying it because you should not base a decision that is so fundamental and irreversible on your relationship with a man. The man can leave. Whereas you won't get another chance at children. So have the courage to decide.

lovevlyt · 18/04/2021 20:43

@Sunshin388 agree with your post

ED81 · 18/04/2021 20:47

I realise only an example but things like obtaining a phd or having certain careers aren’t life long commitments. I have a degree and it was hard but it took 4 years.

Children are however forever! Without doubt it’s the biggest decision a person will make and shouldn’t be taken lightly. That’s why many are in turmoil. Not everyone finds the choice easy.

OP posts:
TedMullins · 18/04/2021 21:19

No neurosis over here @Cleverpolly3. I’ve never questioned my decision to be childfree or felt unsure. I also don’t go around saying that parents talking about the all-consuming, incredible nature of parenting are denigrating those who don’t want kids. I believe them, I’m sure having a child is the best thing you’ve ever done and that many, many parents would say the same. That’s fine, but being a parent isn’t superior to being childfree. I know myself well enough to know (as much as I can know, without actually having a kid) that whatever positives it might bring -mare not enough of a draw for me to take the risk of bringing a life into the world that I may regret. And I do think I’d regret it. So I’m not going to do it. I won’t even date people who want kids. And I’m not offended or denigrated by parents feeling the opposite way. The neurosis isn’t coming from me!

Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 21:45

@ED81

I realise only an example but things like obtaining a phd or having certain careers aren’t life long commitments. I have a degree and it was hard but it took 4 years.

Children are however forever! Without doubt it’s the biggest decision a person will make and shouldn’t be taken lightly. That’s why many are in turmoil. Not everyone finds the choice easy.

Well, time has made a decision for you really.
Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 21:47

@TedMullins

No neurosis over here *@Cleverpolly3*. I’ve never questioned my decision to be childfree or felt unsure. I also don’t go around saying that parents talking about the all-consuming, incredible nature of parenting are denigrating those who don’t want kids. I believe them, I’m sure having a child is the best thing you’ve ever done and that many, many parents would say the same. That’s fine, but being a parent isn’t superior to being childfree. I know myself well enough to know (as much as I can know, without actually having a kid) that whatever positives it might bring -mare not enough of a draw for me to take the risk of bringing a life into the world that I may regret. And I do think I’d regret it. So I’m not going to do it. I won’t even date people who want kids. And I’m not offended or denigrated by parents feeling the opposite way. The neurosis isn’t coming from me!
Are you male or female?
TedMullins · 18/04/2021 21:52

Not sure why you’re asking but female

Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 21:54

@TedMullins

Not sure why you’re asking but female
No reason Ted.
LetSophieGo · 18/04/2021 21:57

I didnt have kids, neither of us had the urge and it just didnt happen. I am 47.

It seems I am in meno, so even now, no thoughts.
I love them but didnt seem to fall into that particular life, and this is ok.

Some people really know they don't want it, and when that is the case you have to hear it.

you say you are maternal, and as a 'childfree' (hate that word) person, this bothers me. Do not deny your urges, please! Don't ever allow a relationship to govern your deepest desires.

Where there is any room for regret, do not take it. Whoever they are and however much you love them, resentment and lost dreams will follow.
I know another childless woman who said this, and she never got over it. She is now 64.

Follow your heart OP. However much you adore someone, if you are not aligned in what you desire it will breed resentment later on.

Tetrixxs · 18/04/2021 21:58

I won’t pretend to understand those who want to remain child free (not them understand me, as I have 3 kids!!) but to me it sounds like you do want them tbh but your husband doesn’t & that’s the issue.
Could you have a sit down & say “if we chose to have kids what would happen” as you mention his hobbies etc but have you actually spoken about the realities?
Like I said, I can’t understand so I’m probably reading it wrong but the angst you feel to me doesn’t sound like somebody who’s adamant they don’t want kids.
How would you feel if your DH turned around tomorrow & said he’d changed his mind & did want children?

LetSophieGo · 18/04/2021 22:00

What I am saying is, I am not 'maternal'.
I could have been a great mum, but that isn't the point. There's flexible and inflexible. But the word maternal is the thing that hits me here, if you are maternal, you are maternal, whether you give birth or not.

to 'struggle' with a choice tells me you can't lay this to rest, so it will remain a bugbear for you. never allow a man to make you feel this ought to be minimised.

Inneedoflifeadvice · 18/04/2021 22:04

I just wondered a few things:

  • Do you think you're posting this on Mumsnet because you want people to suggest that you do have kids? (i'm as yet childless too so not commenting on you being on mumsnet, just wondered whether that might have factored into the decision to ask people on mumsnet?)
  • Do you think that the reason you have been very stressed about this decision is because a part of you still does want to have kids?
  • What are your core values in life? Would remaining child-free or having kids be best suited to your core values?
Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 22:07

Agree with Sophie.

TreeDice · 18/04/2021 22:09

@Cleverpolly3 thanks for responding.

Yes the OP asked for opinions. And she's been getting them for the last 8 pages from parents and childfree people alike. It was quite an interesting thread and hopefully useful for the OP.

You however were the only person to accuse the OP of "denigrating parenthood" by suggesting she might not like the work that comes with a child. No-one else has had to resort to that.

What exactly is your aim? If it is, as you suggest, simply to share your experience, why do you feel the need to throw around accusations? Confused

Good luck OP, I hope this doesn't derail your thread.

Isthereaduckinthehouse · 18/04/2021 22:11

You say that you're struggling. I think you need to sort your head out first and then speak to your husband.

Cleverpolly3 · 18/04/2021 22:19

@TedMullins

No neurosis over here *@Cleverpolly3*. I’ve never questioned my decision to be childfree or felt unsure. I also don’t go around saying that parents talking about the all-consuming, incredible nature of parenting are denigrating those who don’t want kids. I believe them, I’m sure having a child is the best thing you’ve ever done and that many, many parents would say the same. That’s fine, but being a parent isn’t superior to being childfree. I know myself well enough to know (as much as I can know, without actually having a kid) that whatever positives it might bring -mare not enough of a draw for me to take the risk of bringing a life into the world that I may regret. And I do think I’d regret it. So I’m not going to do it. I won’t even date people who want kids. And I’m not offended or denigrated by parents feeling the opposite way. The neurosis isn’t coming from me!
This is the thing: I haven’t said being a parent is being superior to being child free I merely wrote that it is just totally different. You took that and ran with it, though as it transpires your life choices make your assessment of my post somewhat limited.

I don’t doubt for one second there are women like you who don’t regret not having a child for whatever reason and what’s more you have no reason to have to explain it so why are you?

In much the same way I don’t have to explain or validate my experience and expect to be patronised or deemed being unable to not take a thread too personally because of my choices

I respect and understand yours.

I never said I didn’t so in that basis i responded to your post

Nothing more

Cleverpolly3 · 18/04/2021 22:20

[quote TreeDice]@Cleverpolly3 thanks for responding.

Yes the OP asked for opinions. And she's been getting them for the last 8 pages from parents and childfree people alike. It was quite an interesting thread and hopefully useful for the OP.

You however were the only person to accuse the OP of "denigrating parenthood" by suggesting she might not like the work that comes with a child. No-one else has had to resort to that.

What exactly is your aim? If it is, as you suggest, simply to share your experience, why do you feel the need to throw around accusations? Confused

Good luck OP, I hope this doesn't derail your thread.[/quote]
I’m not resorting to anything
It’s stating the bleeding obvious that parenthood is hard work
I don’t especially care if nobody else wrote it, I was resorting to nothing

You sound ridiculous

FeelinSpendy · 18/04/2021 22:39

@ED81 Thank you for starting this thread OP. I’m 43 and I have been through the same thing as you. I’ve never really liked children but spent my 30’s waiting for my biological clock to start ticking. It never did so I had to make a more conscious decision.
I’m very lucky as my husband was of the same mindset as me - we kept thinking the urge to have children would come along shortly. We had a number of conversations talking about how we’d maybe start trying in a ‘couple of years’. Then our 30’s went by and we weren’t any closer to wanting them.
I’m still a bit concerned about being lonely when we’re older and also that we could regret the decision, but that doesn’t seem like a good enough reason to have them. It’s very difficult when there’s societal pressure. I had so many questions about when we were going to have them, although those have trailed off now we’re into our 40’s.
I think I’d have made a good mum, but seeing the mum life up close through family and friends makes it clear that that’s not the life I want. And I think better to regret not having them, than to have them and regret that - that would be awful and unfair on the children.

Graphista · 18/04/2021 23:06

@TedMullins because at the time they decided to sacrifice motherhood for men who SAID they NEVER wanted children they genuinely believed those men would stay in the relationships and not sod off after their fertility was basically non existent to enter new relationships and quickly get the new woman pregnant less than a year after splitting from my friends in both cases. It's a shitty thing that some men do unfortunately which is why yes women need to decide for themselves on this.

I had a strong (and correct as it turned out) that the path to motherhood for me was not going to be an easy one. My first pregnancy ironically was unplanned at age 18, getting pregnant apparently not the problem (even on the pill) staying pregnant was another matter. This was also my first mc. When I met my ex (after this happened) I made clear to him from the start that marriage and children were key for me and I wasn't interested in wasting my time. He wobbled a little at first (we were only 19/20 when we met) but I explained my reasoning and he understood. We dated for a couple years, he then proposed, we married within the year, he was honest that he wanted us to have 1st couple years married just the two of us and then we planned to ttc. A series of obstacles got in the way, mainly my health but also his job (army - kinda hard to ttc when he's 1000's of miles away Grin) and on one occasion his health (tropical infection acquired while on deployment knocked him sideways) so that in all it took us nearly 5 years to get dd.

I do have one friend also who was adamant she never wanted dc to the point of ending relationships and trying to get sterilised (this is ridiculously hard for women in this country especially for those who haven't had a child), she then was involved in an accident that left her with an infection that eventually resulted in an emergency hysterectomy. She found it really tough to come to terms with despite always being adamant she didn't want dc. The fact the choice was taken away from her in an unforeseen way made her wobble for a while. Once she recovered and was doing better health wise and yes time is probably a factor too, she was fine with it.

Sometimes as a woman approaches menopause stage (either physically or mentally) they can second guess themselves on this a bit if they've chosen to be child free or I've even seen it with women who have children and they wonder if they want one more. One friend succumbed to this and while she loves her child wholeheartedly she does regret doing it at that age/stage for a number of reasons. Hormones can be utter buggers! Mess with your head!

Also bear in mind op even if you were able to get pregnant fairly easily, carry to term and deliver a healthy baby you're still going to be at least 58/59 when they reach adulthood and the stress does not end there! My dd is 20 and I'm very much still parenting albeit "remotely"

It's entirely possible that the main reasons you're considering having dc but don't really want them are:

Hormones - seriously they go nuts at this time! As I think I said upthread another pregnancy for me would very likely be fatal yet around this time I had just started seeing someone and was seriously considering the possibility - nuts!!

Socialisation - it's drummed into us from we're bloody toddlers that the "normal" thing is to want to be a mum! Boys and men don't have anything LIKE the same pressure socially/politically! It's everywhere! Embedded in our culture. My friends that chose to be child free by choice had a LOT of criticism - even from complete bloody strangers! I also once worked with a woman in the 90's and she would have been her late 50's then, she knew I was non judgmental on the matter from previous conversations about others and she confided in me that she and her husband never wanted dc, they had a small holding and were perfectly happy with their family of animals (not farmers they rescued various animals of all kinds and cared for them until they died naturally). They knew there'd be comments etc and there were plus pressure from both sets of parents so they decided early on in their marriage (this would have been in the late 60's) that it was just easier to lie/fudge and give the impression they couldn't rather than wouldn't. I know that some will disagree with that but I understood. Not ideal but I know at that time it was hugely taboo to be married and CHOOSE not to have dc. I'm the result of an unplanned pregnancy myself which led to a shotgun wedding to an abusive man! I think it would have been much better for all concerned had my mother not become pregnant by my father. I genuinely believe that.

Something you could try is counselling BUT make sure to get yourself a counsellor who isn't biased either way - that could be hard.

Because I'm in my 50s and have seen this happen more times than I can count, even with 'great' marriages. It happens.

Yea since I reached around 45 I've seen it happening more and more around me in people around my age.

I have to be honest and say the thing that most concerns me is the possibility of your having a child with a man who doesn't want one. That would be a disaster for everyone involved I think.

For you as you would be expected to bear the greater weight of responsibility and parenting I think especially the early stage tough parts (sleepless night, endless rocking/walking a colicky baby, teething) but also the later more onerous parts of parenting.

For dh being forced into fatherhood and living with a child (not just a baby but into adulthood) they never actively wanted

For the child being raised by an ambivalent mother and a quite possibly disinterested snd resentful father is a recipe for disaster.

It could well be a perfect storm for a buildup of resentment in at least one if not all 3 people involved.

Personally I think all children deserve wherever possible to be born wanted, loved and appreciated. I don't think that would be the case here.

Genuine question op have you much experience with children beyond the odd bit of babysitting sleeping ones as a teen maybe?

I'm the eldest sibling and cousin (both sides) and have been watching other peoples kids since I was 12/13, not just the usual teen babysitting, once I was 16 I was regularly hired to do overnight and breakfast care. Then from 18 all weekend or even occasionally full weeks (half terms etc) I then became a nanny and worked as a nanny for several years before entering nurse training. I nursed for a few years but found it wasn't for me. I'd also been a voluntary leader in various youth groups from the age of 18 too so had some experience with teens including residential settings and including working with teens who had not had the easiest start in life and that showed in various ways. I married my ex and had dd. So from my experience to that point I had a pretty good background of experience of babies and children of all ages. Nothing completely prepares you for parenthood (certainly there's nothing else like the early sleep deprivation it gives you!) but I think it did stop me from having a romanticised idea of what parenting is. I agree with pp upthread (sorry I've lost track of who) who said some go into it with rose coloured glasses on...and then get a rude awakening!

That was very true initially with one of my friends who was a teen mum, yes her youth was part of it, but also she was the youngest in her family and had never even done much babysitting or anything. She got a shock! Her parents were very supportive once over the initial shock and worry but they rightly still expected her to be the child's main carer. It was a very steep learning curve for her.

Another friend who is academically EXTREMELY intelligent but can be somewhat lacking on the common sense/street smarts side was an older mum in her late 30's. She was absolutely adamant baby would fit in with her and dh not the other way around. Even the fact that baby may not come exactly on due date threw her! She had it all planned to the nth degree inc going back to work full time 6 weeks post partum. She completely didn't understand how she would feel at that point - sleep deprivation, attachment hormones, lack of confidence etc she pushed forward with these plans trying to ignore how she felt and fell apart on that first day back at work, just lost it completely! Luckily she had an understanding boss who kinda expected this to happen and had made a contingency plan accordingly. She was completely unprepared for just NEEDING to be with her child.

Last time I checked the divorce rate was still 1/4

I think it's closer to 50% isn't it? Just checked 42% and those stats don't include cohabiting couples who've separated but I know cohabiting couples are more likely to separate 62% separation rate for cohabiting couples apparently

Not everyone should be a parent

Totally agree

MegaBeach · 18/04/2021 23:11

No one ever says “you’ll never know resentment and disappointment until you have a child”... well, they don’t say it out loud ☹️