To be miffed at all the presents for being a wife and mother

[Creamcustards]

Inspired by the baby shower thread.

What is it that makes us ‘reward’ getting married and having children with money and gifts?! I mean, surely the joy of the marriage / the child is enough!?

Yes, I am single and childfree. Maybe a little bit bitter?!! When I get a pet or a new job or there some other happy event in my life I don’t get showered with gifts / money!

Grr.

In my friend’s family her child free siblings decided that as she has children she doesn’t get presents for birthdays and children any more, they only get them for the children. But she is expected to get them presents still for the same occasions. I can understand this from a cost point, and actually she doesn’t mind herself and I can also understand that because I also understand the feeling of not needing presents myself and being happy for people to focus on the children, but I’m not sure how “fair” it is either.

It is awful that those who haven’t had the traditional milestones (which absolutely come with dodgy trappings in terms of patriarchal attitudes) feel so horribly overlooked. I’m not sure whether some of the ideas presented here though are necessarily solutions to that

@winifredwells

Two people to pay towards a mortgage, the marriage tax allowance, two people to share house expenses (my rent, TV licence, house insurance is the same whether one or more people live here).

mortgage is bigger because you need more space, marriage tax allowance is only for the lowest salaries, house expenses are pretty much doubled.

No, it's hardly a cost saving exercise to get married (I wish!)

Technically you just need a bedroom, kitchen and bathroom whether in a couple or single, you might need a slightly bigger property but not much. It's a lot easier to get onto the property ladder with 2 people, it's just not the case that your needs double the price. Not all bills double either, places where council tax is property (you only get 25% if single, so technically still 25% more as a single person than 50/50 for example). I have found it a lot more affordable as a couple paying 50% of everything than when I was a single homeowner.

Hike I dunno. Pets are lovely. Pretty much the first thing I say when I phone my mum is "how's the cat?".
I am more excited about being able to go visit my mother in law (who I haven't seen for almost a year) so I can meet her new pet than I was when I travelled up there to get married (which was just a legal thing for me tbh).

I can understand your point OP.

I had a few friends who after getting married and having children used them as excuses for not affording any gifts for bdays etc. Yet expected me to gift then expensive things because I'm single and childless and therefore have more money

They are no longer my friends because thats incredibly entitled and selfish behaviour

This thread is seriously depressing. Since when were material gifts symbolic of how much someone’s life is worth?

If you don’t want to buy a gift then don’t buy a gift. Whatever the occasion. If you can’t afford to buy a gift then don’t buy one even if you want to.

Gifts won’t always balance out. Neither will luck, infertility, illness, death, or any life changing things.

But if you’re not genuinely happy when a friend has something good happen in their life, whatever that might be, then you are not their friend.

Its societal. Society values marriage as a way of cementing relationships and strengthening society. Babies help society to survive and flourish. Getting a job is an individual thing. Birthdays are for families and close friends in the community, in the main and make a family member feel valued.

Generally speaking, hosting a wedding meal costs far more than the value of gifts received. It's also traditional but not obligatory to give a gift.

With regards to baby gifts - new mothers take a massive financial hit, and are very bloody knackered (and often stitched together with a needle and thread). I always give new baby gifts because I know how bloody tough it is!

YABU OP - unless you plan to either host a £10k party for your nearest and dearest, you probably can't really complain.

I love buying presents for people gives me pleasure - each to their own!

"Young, more carefree, child free, friends being a bit more, maybe not selfish but less caring and less aware of others.

When people settle and have families, and are thrown into boring "real life", they get a lot more attentive and caring for others."

That's a lot of words for "people who don't have children are selfish."

I can think of lots of occasions I would enjoy spoiling friends and family, weddings and births included.

As a wife and mother I get very few presents. I am mostly invisible and at the bottom of everyone's pile as it is my job, apparently, to selflessly do all wifey work and make personal sacrifices for those around me.

In fact, the only presents I get, aside from my DH, are my friends who are other mums as they know how it feels. They are the most thoughtful people in my life.

My single, childless SIL on the other hand is a piece of work. No. of presents she has bought me since I met her, 30 years ago = ZERO. She on the other hand sends me emails about what I can buy her for Christmas, usually up to about £70. Because she has no partner or DC, she expects us to be her surrogate Santa.

Baby gifts are more often or not for the baby. Mother is often left out.

Wedding gift is in exchange for meal/special day

I am a foster parent, I always, always send my little ones off to their forever homes with a present for their mummy and daddy because I think their new arrival marks such a monumental moment in their lives.

I can see where your coming from but some people are more materialistic and have wedding lists and say that they want the money or have baby showers for the gifts! Which I hate!! 🤣
For starters I got engaged (no party no gifts just told people we were going to get married!) and then got married... paid for people to come and specified to people to come for a good time and celebrate no gifts (some people did give a gift or money which was very nice of them).
Had a baby... no baby shower as I hate them! If people wanted to buy the baby a gift when they were born I wouldn't say no!
I've bought gifts or cards or went on a night out and bought drinks for friends when they've had promotions, new home, graduation etc.
You do sound a little resentful of others for having a different life

Hike I dunno. Pets are lovely. Pretty much the first thing I say when I phone my mum is "how's the cat?"

I agree pets can be lovely. But not everyone views them as family members or creatures to get excited over. Lots of people dislike cats and dogs.

I’ve never heard of anyone throwing a ‘puppy shower’ or ‘naming ceremony’ for an animal, or inviting guests to celebrate a pets birthday (and paying to host those guests with a nice venue, meal, entertainment).

I guess some life events like moving house= housewarming party, birthdays are an excuse to throw a party, celebrating and gift giving are part of this so nobody loses out on the opportunity to celebrate even if they choose not to marry or have kids.

But if I were invited to a pet’s party I’m afraid I’d decline, I’m not a fan of treating animals like humans. Same with a ‘new job celebration’, it’s a bit odd as most people change jobs a few times (including married people with kids) so a party and gifts seem OTT.

I had a few friends who after getting married and having children used them as excuses for not affording any gifts for bdays etc. Yet expected me to gift then expensive things

Are you sure they expected you to buy expensive gifts? Or you just felt it was expected eg attending a child’s birthday party?

I’ve stopped buying gifts for some friends birthdays since having kids, as I’m just too tired and frazzled to go shopping. Your focus changes when you have young kids. I don’t expect anything in return though.

Wow how bitter are you.

Children come into the world with nothing and immediately start needing a lot of stuff.

Marriage is a bit different but traditionally came with ‘setting up home’ and an expectation of supporting future children / wife which is why practical gifts are traditional.

Single people with a job supporting only themselves need less help. It isn’t about rewarding life choices.

Where it gets weird is when people don’t marry / have children til mid/late thirties and set up home way earlier and have enough money that they don’t need anything. But traditionally that wouldn’t have been the case. Until my generation it was usual to have children before age 24.

Hike I have never known anyone throw a party for a pet either. I have also never known anyone have a baby shower. I always thought they were a bit of a myth - something that doesn't actually happen. I have never heard of someone having a party for a new job either.
But I don't need it to be a 'party' if I want to give someone a gift.

@HikeForward I’ve stopped buying gifts for some friends birthdays since having kids, as I’m just too tired and frazzled to go shopping

I think you just can't be bothered, especially in the days of Amazon, Etsy, Ebay etc as well as online flower/chocolate/alcohol deliveries. It takes less than 5 minutes to order something to be delivered to someone, or to pick up a bottle of wine in your next supermarket shop and stick it in a giftbag. No shopping involved.

One thing I have learned from being on Mumsnet for a while now is that it seems to be 'normal' to spend £100 or even more on gifts for all these type of events. That is like a parallel universe to me because other than for my close family I would never spend more than about £25 on a gift. And £25 would be unusual.
Maybe if people weren't spending such ridiculous amounts of money they wouldn't be so bitter about not getting something 'in return'.

I hate baby showers and think you should just celebrate a safe arrival but that may e because of my journey of baby loss and IVF.

I also think they mean you end up buying presents twice for the same baby as you get something when it arrives too. (I like gender specific clothing like dresses so you tend to need to know "what" it is before buying.

I ensured everyone knew that everyone knew I would not be amused by a baby shower.

i’ve never heard of anyone throwing a ‘puppy shower’

Now that I could get excited about

@HikeForward

I had a few friends who after getting married and having children used them as excuses for not affording any gifts for bdays etc. Yet expected me to gift then expensive things

Are you sure they expected you to buy expensive gifts? Or you just felt it was expected eg attending a child’s birthday party?

I’ve stopped buying gifts for some friends birthdays since having kids, as I’m just too tired and frazzled to go shopping. Your focus changes when you have young kids. I don’t expect anything in return though.

Well I think them saying it in a jokey way is quite telling. So hardly something I'm making up or assuming.

"In my friend’s family her child free siblings decided that as she has children she doesn’t get presents for birthdays and children any more, they only get them for the children. But she is expected to get them presents still for the same occasions. I can understand this from a cost point, and actually she doesn’t mind herself and I can also understand that because I also understand the feeling of not needing presents myself and being happy for people to focus on the children, but I’m not sure how “fair” it is either."

Why isn't it fair? Sounds fair to me. The gifts to her children are actually also gifts for her as she is financially responsible for them.