To be miffed at all the presents for being a wife and mother

[Creamcustards]

Inspired by the baby shower thread.

What is it that makes us ‘reward’ getting married and having children with money and gifts?! I mean, surely the joy of the marriage / the child is enough!?

Yes, I am single and childfree. Maybe a little bit bitter?!! When I get a pet or a new job or there some other happy event in my life I don’t get showered with gifts / money!

Grr.

I feel ya OP!

And agree with a previous poster that it isn’t about presents but about how society still looks on single, childless women as less than, living lives devoid of meaning and purpose and prefers us to be invisible with our meaningless achievements until convenient.

What has been proven on a few posts is that it isn’t the single, childless lot who are bitter - I feel sorry for anyone who needed to become a parent to be a better, more caring person and have meaning in life and then uses that awakening to judge others who don’t need to have found a partner or procreated to not be a dick.

I celebrate all life occasions with my friends, single, married, parents and childless but I stepped back from those who stopped being interested in my life when theirs changed or started lecturing me on how vapid and shallow my life was compared to theirs now. That speaks to who they are not to who I am.

I do think the elevating of motherhood and wifedom is a handy patriarchal tool to divide and conquer women. If we are busy tearing each other apart for making different life choices then we aren’t focusing on what we should actually be tearing apart.

I do agree there @Hardbackwriter, I think the other non birthday presents I mentioned above were a bit of a red herring in the end. I think not getting a birthday present or card in return was the straw that broke the camels back, and since then I've just sent "happy birthday" or "congratulations " texts in all the right places, which has been easier with covid due to no parties. I would give a gift to this person if I was attending a party she had thrown, but even pre covid, everything is done with her "little family" anyway, so that makes it cheaper for me I guess

So throw yourself a ‘I’ve got a new pet/job’ party and invite people then. Maybe order some posh stationery and send round an official card to mark the occasion? Order up some cake and balloons, drinks are on you.

Seriously though, marriages, funerals, babies and to some degree milestone birthdays are communal family/community events. If my brother gets married or has a kid that changes my family forever, if a relative dies that is a huge life event. If he gets a new job I’d probably send a text, maybe a card but it’s not a life event for the whole family.

It was probably the number of children she’d have had anyway, rather than a ‘game’ to elicit presents from you specifically.

@HereComesATractor

Because it seems to be all about wives and mothers, not husbands and fathers

I don’t see why it would be just women tbh. My male friends and family are just as thoughtful and caring re recognising major life events as my female ones. And I buy gifts and cards for guys as much as I do women.

@DuchessOfDoombar

I feel ya OP!

And agree with a previous poster that it isn’t about presents but about how society still looks on single, childless women as less than, living lives devoid of meaning and purpose and prefers us to be invisible with our meaningless achievements until convenient.

What has been proven on a few posts is that it isn’t the single, childless lot who are bitter - I feel sorry for anyone who needed to become a parent to be a better, more caring person and have meaning in life and then uses that awakening to judge others who don’t need to have found a partner or procreated to not be a dick.

I celebrate all life occasions with my friends, single, married, parents and childless but I stepped back from those who stopped being interested in my life when theirs changed or started lecturing me on how vapid and shallow my life was compared to theirs now. That speaks to who they are not to who I am.

I do think the elevating of motherhood and wifedom is a handy patriarchal tool to divide and conquer women. If we are busy tearing each other apart for making different life choices then we aren’t focusing on what we should actually be tearing apart.

I was just coming on to post this. It's all to do with our patriarchal society and the expected role of women within it. Celebrating engagement, marriage, pregnancy, motherhood. And none of the other excellent things that women do. There's just a void for those of us who are untethered and childfree. And that can hurt.

A promotion makes you richer, kids and a wedding make you significantly poorer haha

If mums become self-absorbed it’s probably most likely because they are run off their feet looking after kids and maybe finding it a lot more challenging than the rose-tinted dream. Sadly this often happens because so much child rearing still falls on the woman and not the man who can be off down the pub with his friends. Instead of being so smug she is probably feeling jaded.

Unfortunately working mums are often dashing back to kids too and not sipping prosecco in the wine bar with their mates. That’s the real reason people become more distant.

As someone said, it’s not a zero sum game. Somebody else having a baby doesn’t stop you from having one - there are so many more options these days.

Men don’t define their lives nearly as much by marital status or kids. Much healthier for them.

I was feeling pretty low when pregnant and someone arranged a baby shower for me. I don't celebrate birthdays or much really but this made my day and a day I will cherish forever. People I never expected to turn up came and gave me some lovely items I would never have bought myself.

So I get what you mean overall but I actually think no one celebrates things enough in the U.K. I like going to countries where they're like to hell with it let's have another festival though

Maybe just opt out of present giving (and receiving) if you feel hard done by? People celebrate life events inportant to them - you can choose not to take part if thats better for you?

@jessnoah

A promotion makes you richer, kids and a wedding make you significantly poorer haha

Getting married makes you richer overall.

"It's all to do with our patriarchal society and the expected role of women within it. Celebrating engagement, marriage, pregnancy, motherhood. And none of the other excellent things that women do. There's just a void for those of us who are untethered and childfree. And that can hurt."

Isn't it the same for men?
I'm glad there isn't more emphasis on promotion to be honest because I'd have to feel bad for being single, childless and not having a career with progression.

@MiddleParking

Men don’t tend to give each other gifts. Very wise.

Poppycock. They go to each other’s weddings, for a start, which is where you’re complaining all this unfairly beneficial gift giving happens.

It's not poppycock. Male friends don't tend to give each other Christmas presents, ime. I'm like that as well, but made a female friend a couple of years ago who insisted on it no matter how many times I told her not to. Other people get the message when I say I don't do gifts. (I do buy for family at Christmas, but that's it).

@Gwenhwyfar
Getting married makes you richer overall.
Not necessarily true.

[quote TorringtonDean]@Gwenhwyfar
Getting married makes you richer overall.
Not necessarily true.[/quote]
Two people to pay towards a mortgage, the marriage tax allowance, two people to share house expenses (my rent, TV licence, house insurance is the same whether one or more people live here).

I hear you OP. When I was single this used to upset me a lot. People who already had everything (in my eyes) being congratulated, celebrated and praised. Well lucky them - the bastards!

Yanbu about the weddings if you are always giving to others and they don't celebrate you in return. It's nice to give presents for a wider range of occasions I think.

Baby presents are for the baby though. I'm pretty sure that a load of random aunties gave me clothes when I was a baby. Not presents for my mother.

@winifredwells

We asked for no gifts at our wedding

I absolutely hate those. You wouldn't turn up empty handed to a diner party or a bbq, so it's rather rude not to at least thank the host, let alone give a gif to celebrate.

You end up wasting so much time and end up sending flowers or something at a later date.

Wedding gift lists are a blessing. I am even happy contributing to a honeymoon or a new roof if you want to, save me time and effort!

I wish people would accept that of someone says NO GIFTS they mean it1 You don't have to buy a gift to show appreciation. A nice thank you card or letter after the event can do that.

I really dislike people giving me hostess /birthday/ Christmas presents. I've reached a stage in my life where I have enough 'stuff' and I'm trying to de clutter. Admittedly there are always a few little bits for my hobbies I might like but no one else would know the sort of specialist things I might like and don't already have. I have allergies so many toiletries, candles and foodstuffs are no good to me. I receive things politely and say thank you appreciatively because I am polite but 99% of presents I'm given go straight to the charity shop or the church fete bottle stall.

that's the whole point of wedding lists.

You don't end up with receiving things you don't want or like, your guests don't waste money and time trying to find something they think you'll like.

When you see how many threads where posters are shocked, offended, horrified by the rudeness of guests turning empty handed!

you can't win.

I know the show Sex and The City leaves a lot to be desired but the episode on this topic is brilliant.

Carrie wears her very expensive shoes to an old friend's apartment, she's told to remove the shoes and they go missing. The friend is nonplussed and doesn't offer to pay for them ,/ replace them. When Carrie presses the issue, the friend is horrified by the price and really judgmental about how Carrie spends her money. Carrie mentally calculates all the money she has spent celebrating this woman's choices; weddings, kids etc. Carrie leaves a voicemail on the friend's phone staying she's getting married to herself and the gift registry is with i assume manola blahnik. There is only one pair of shoes on the list. The friend pays and the friendship ends there.

Although I hate Carrie I think her feelings here are so valid. I was the single gal for years and at one stage I had just had enough with my big gang of mates that expected all their occasions celebrated at huge expense but 'couldn't get out because of the kids' when it came to my birthdays or moving city or whatever.

I'm now settled down but I'm very conscious to make a fuss of the non marriage related milestones in my friends' lives.

Two people to pay towards a mortgage, the marriage tax allowance, two people to share house expenses (my rent, TV licence, house insurance is the same whether one or more people live here).

mortgage is bigger because you need more space, marriage tax allowance is only for the lowest salaries, house expenses are pretty much doubled.

No, it's hardly a cost saving exercise to get married (I wish!)

@MiddleParking

*Because in a relationship of two single people they will both follow the same convention. Give gifts. Or not. Equally.

But married mothers expect gifts for getting married, every time they procreate, possibly even christenings, children’s birthdays and Christmas etc etc too and not reciprocate with other gifts that balance the imbalance back up.

Single friends don’t do that to each other, do they?*

Do you not know any children with fathers? Nor any married men? Weird.

If the poster upset that she never got gifts had set up her relationships such that there was no reciprocal gift giving (which, to be fair to her, is conjecture on your part) then it’s hardly surprising that she wasn’t receiving any gifts. Also, you say it as if all married people are inherently selfish and all single people inherently generous. There are people in both camps with every kind of gift giving/receiving behaviour.

Men tend not to bother with gift giving and I tend to have female friends, so yes I ignore fathers and married men beyond relatives - and yes like mothers they as a couple tend to behave as I have described mothers. They have less impact on my life though.

She hasn't set her relationship up without reciprocal gift giving. She's been giving gifts to married parents and getting nothing back in return. I agree there are selfish in both - I'm one of them now! - but the difference is when one takes getting married and having children out of the equation, it all works well - but everyone is expected to give gifts for folk getting married and having children no matter how selfish those people are and no matter how selfish I'd like to be. It's expected. So those on the receiving end of these gifts should recognise that social pressure is just that and either insist on no gifts or reciprocated because otherwise, we all think they are arseholes. And nobody want's that!

@DuchessOfDoombar

I feel ya OP!

And agree with a previous poster that it isn’t about presents but about how society still looks on single, childless women as less than, living lives devoid of meaning and purpose and prefers us to be invisible with our meaningless achievements until convenient.

What has been proven on a few posts is that it isn’t the single, childless lot who are bitter - I feel sorry for anyone who needed to become a parent to be a better, more caring person and have meaning in life and then uses that awakening to judge others who don’t need to have found a partner or procreated to not be a dick.

I celebrate all life occasions with my friends, single, married, parents and childless but I stepped back from those who stopped being interested in my life when theirs changed or started lecturing me on how vapid and shallow my life was compared to theirs now. That speaks to who they are not to who I am.

I do think the elevating of motherhood and wifedom is a handy patriarchal tool to divide and conquer women. If we are busy tearing each other apart for making different life choices then we aren’t focusing on what we should actually be tearing apart.

Hear hear!

YABU

Getting a new pet is nothing like getting married or having a baby!

Marriage marks a commitment to another person, the start of a long term partnership (that won’t always be easy!) Giving a gift at a wedding is an ancient tradition. Also the bride and groom tend to host an expensive meal and party to celebrate their union. Bringing a gift is normal if you attend a wedding. It’s not like people throw a party to celebrate their new kitten?

Having a baby is a huge life changing event that involves a great deal of stress, pain and sometimes trauma or PND. Sure babies bring joy too but your life will change forever! Gifts given to parents of newborns tend to be practical things like baby clothes, toiletries or money to put in the child’s saving account, in recognition that a new member of the family has arrived!