When some women say they are doing it for themselves

[Tiggerishigh]

You know when people say they are doing something for themselves, I mean like having surgery on their nose or saying they wear certain clothes for themselves, AIBU to say that they are not at all?

If they were on a desert island alone they wouldn't give a shit about whether their breasts or nose are a particular aesthetic. If they lived in a different world where those things didn't matter they wouldn't feel it would boost their confidence or whatever. Of course it is for other people and how they are seen by others.

I don't mind if people want to wear very uncomfortable underwear or cut parts of their body off but don't make out it's nothing to do with society and all for yourself.

Sadly it's mostly women who wear uncomfortable shoes and clothes and fill their lips with crap etc.

Umbivalent I think jewellery and nails is a bit different, though I don't do either.
It's going through surgery and wearing uncomfortable things that I find odd.

You are, of course, 100% right. Of course you are! How could you not be?

And I say this as someone who wears make-up, removes body hair, etc.

I totally see the double standard - it’s blatant and it’s in our faces every day.

But this thread will not go well. People get very, very defensive when they’re questioned about their ‘choices’. Very, very defensive.

Sometimes you can be too literal it becomes illogical.

I’ve just had my nose done and I 100% did it for me. I want to be able to look at a picture of myself without seeing the child catcher.

I genuinely don’t care what other people think of what I look like. I don’t wear make up, heels, high fashion, get my nails done or dye my hair.

@Tiggerishigh

You know when people say they are doing something for themselves, I mean like having surgery on their nose or saying they wear certain clothes for themselves, AIBU to say that they are not at all?

If they were on a desert island alone they wouldn't give a shit about whether their breasts or nose are a particular aesthetic. If they lived in a different world where those things didn't matter they wouldn't feel it would boost their confidence or whatever. Of course it is for other people and how they are seen by others.

I don't mind if people want to wear very uncomfortable underwear or cut parts of their body off but don't make out it's nothing to do with society and all for yourself.

Sadly it's mostly women who wear uncomfortable shoes and clothes and fill their lips with crap etc.

I am currently losing weight and will then have a tummy tuck. I am doing it for me, no-one else, because I hate the baby apron.

So YABU

Whew why are you so angry...?

Not angry at all @Mummy1608! Just so, so grateful that the OP has shown me how society works.

@Tiggerishigh

Umbivalent I think jewellery and nails is a bit different, though I don't do either. It's going through surgery and wearing uncomfortable things that I find odd.

So should people not get their ears pierced? Or get tattoos?

They make me happy because I like experimenting with makeup. I enjoy it so, therefore, it makes me happy. Don't get me wrong, like I said, I get what you're saying but some are doing if for themselves.

A relative of mine just had a double mastectomy. I should tell her, before her "cosmetic surgery" that she's not doing it for herself but for society and for how others see her?

I mean where do you draw the line?

Umbivalent. Of course we all know how it works but why do people go on about how none of these decisions about surgery are to do with anyone else or how they view them.

You are wrong that men don’t care about their appearance.

Gyms are full of men trying to get that six pack and one of the largest growing markets in skin care products are those aimed at men.
Men might not be getting a pedicure but then women are not oiling their beards either.

@SaturdayRocks

You are, of course, 100% right. Of course you are! How could you not be?

And I say this as someone who wears make-up, removes body hair, etc.

I totally see the double standard - it’s blatant and it’s in our faces every day.

But this thread will not go well. People get very, very defensive when they’re questioned about their ‘choices’. Very, very defensive.

Exactly

Yabu. I have a bump in my nose and fuller could help straighten it. I might go for it, I might not. I mentioned it to mu dh once and he thought I was being daft. I dye my hair for myself because at 34 if I didn't I would be all grey and I don't want to be. I will sometimes do a full face of makeup and wear fancy clothes because I feel like it. Dh will notice and compliment me but the bigger part of it is that it makes me feel happy in myself.

@Tiggerishigh

Umbivalent. Of course we all know how it works but why do people go on about how none of these decisions about surgery are to do with anyone else or how they view them.

I resent the ‘going on about it’ comment

I just mentioned it in passing

😀

It blows my mind when people can't think this through all the way to where the likes/dislikes, comfort/discomfort comes from in the first place.

I disagree. I don’t go out and I work from home. I don’t even do the weekly shop. No one sees me but my kids and Oh. However, since lockdown 3 I’ve started doing all sorts of things, whitening teeth, loosing weight, tanning and now also have a skin routine!! I’m doing it because I’ve discovered I like it and it makes me feel good, it really is for no one else as I don’t see anyone!

I'm not sure about this, there's something disparaging that I don't really understand. Of course there are societal expectations & some women prefer to conform to those. I probably do.

Otoh I've gone without my full face on 5 times since lockdown started. 2 days after giving birth and 3 when we all had Covid and I was so ill I thought I was dying. My DH truly couldn't give a shit, often says I look better without it. For vast swathes of that I saw not a single person as I was quite vulnerable & shielding. So who was it for? I just enjoy the ritual, the time out from the kids for half an hour, the colour. I love taking it all off too and mucking about with skincare products.

I am considering surgery on my hideous stomach, which is buggered from 3 pregnancies and diastasis. That's easily hidden, DH doesn't even notice it, and the only person who really sees it is me. Is that for other people?

OP would you say the same about how one decorates thier house? Which car they drive? School they send their kids to?

By that logic almost every decision we ever make is to please society or whatever and never for ourselves.

On a very basal level that might be true, but if so it becomes irrelevant.

@Magnificentmug12

I disagree. I don’t go out and I work from home. I don’t even do the weekly shop. No one sees me but my kids and Oh. However, since lockdown 3 I’ve started doing all sorts of things, whitening teeth, loosing weight, tanning and now also have a skin routine!! I’m doing it because I’ve discovered I like it and it makes me feel good, it really is for no one else as I don’t see anyone!

Nothing to do with society telling you tanned skin and white teeth are fashionable then? Do you not see why those fake things are making you happy?

I do agree with regard to makeup

I love makeup but im well aware its a society thing

(Dont do hair dye or heels but they are society things as well)

You're totally right, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make them feel better. Society moulds us from birth, it's impossible not to be influenced by it. People who choose to opt out aren't 'better' than people who acknowledge that society/the patriarchy has done a number on them but choose to participate to some extent.

I know that I've been conditioned to want to look the way society wants women to look, but I get no enjoyment out of going out in comfortable yet unflattering clothing to see friends and family. As I entered my 30s I gave less of a shit about some things and ditched the vertiginous heels in favour of ones that are comfortable, but I'm still aware that any heels mean I'm subscribing to society's version of female beauty. I don't care - I like them, whilst acknowledging that they're a sign of oppression.

TLDR: meh. Different strokes for different folks. And down with the patriarchy!

@LimpLettice

I'm not sure about this, there's something disparaging that I don't really understand. Of course there are societal expectations & some women prefer to conform to those. I probably do.

Otoh I've gone without my full face on 5 times since lockdown started. 2 days after giving birth and 3 when we all had Covid and I was so ill I thought I was dying. My DH truly couldn't give a shit, often says I look better without it. For vast swathes of that I saw not a single person as I was quite vulnerable & shielding. So who was it for? I just enjoy the ritual, the time out from the kids for half an hour, the colour. I love taking it all off too and mucking about with skincare products.

I am considering surgery on my hideous stomach, which is buggered from 3 pregnancies and diastasis. That's easily hidden, DH doesn't even notice it, and the only person who really sees it is me. Is that for other people?

Your stomach is only "hideous" because that is what you've been told over and over all your life. You'd love it if it was seen as a wonderful belly that bore kids and was seen as the same kind of achievement as being very thin or having a PHD.

Also - if something makes someone happy then that's good.

If, however, not being something makes someone UNhappy that's a different issue altogether.

It's hugely conflicting.

@Tiggerishigh

You know when people say they are doing something for themselves, I mean like having surgery on their nose or saying they wear certain clothes for themselves, AIBU to say that they are not at all?

If they were on a desert island alone they wouldn't give a shit about whether their breasts or nose are a particular aesthetic. If they lived in a different world where those things didn't matter they wouldn't feel it would boost their confidence or whatever. Of course it is for other people and how they are seen by others.

I don't mind if people want to wear very uncomfortable underwear or cut parts of their body off but don't make out it's nothing to do with society and all for yourself.

Sadly it's mostly women who wear uncomfortable shoes and clothes and fill their lips with crap etc.

"if they were on a desert island alone they wouldn't feel that way" is the stupidest argument ever made about emotions, I swear to god.

I love different international cultures around adornment that you see around the world, including make up artists and fashions here, but I do dislike it when it moves into body modification (breast augmentation, cosmetic surgery, foot binding, extreme piercing or rings that stretch the ears or neck) or where what is considered beautiful is very narrow, or expectations of one sex are time consuming, restrictive or expensive. And I agree with you, its unusual for people to be able to step outside these expectations completely.

What I'm saying is that I don't care if people do all the stuff but don't pretend it is all for you and that your choice is not a result of others perceptions and societies ideals, that is my point.

I wear make-up and dress up when I have no plans to leave the house. I do it for me.

To be honest, I don't really understand how people slob about in 'lounge wear' in their house all weekend. It would make me feel down to look shit all day, even if no one saw.