When some women say they are doing it for themselves

[Tiggerishigh]

You know when people say they are doing something for themselves, I mean like having surgery on their nose or saying they wear certain clothes for themselves, AIBU to say that they are not at all?

If they were on a desert island alone they wouldn't give a shit about whether their breasts or nose are a particular aesthetic. If they lived in a different world where those things didn't matter they wouldn't feel it would boost their confidence or whatever. Of course it is for other people and how they are seen by others.

I don't mind if people want to wear very uncomfortable underwear or cut parts of their body off but don't make out it's nothing to do with society and all for yourself.

Sadly it's mostly women who wear uncomfortable shoes and clothes and fill their lips with crap etc.

No one sees my boobs and I still would like them lifted. I wear mascara because I prefer my face like that. Quite happy to be an unwitting tool of the patriarchy and some sort of idiot woman unknowingly submitting to whatever the fuck you’re on about if it makes me happy.

Hmmmm I do like to look Good for me but I’d also say I like that it means it probably ups my chances with the men I find attractive and want to date etc
Which sounds shallow but it’s not a deliberate thing as such am sure since time begin all animals do things that increase their chances of sex

YABU.
I do things for ME, I honestly could not give a shit what others think.
I live in skirts and dresses for example.
I also wear boots and no make up.
I think it's really sad that others seem to think women have to be doing whatever they're doing for society, or the patriarchy or whatever.
How about we're all individuals and I find other women judging women for what they do or like every bit as offensive as a man doing the exact same thing?!
Just because someone is a woman doesn't give them a free pass to judge other women, deem them handmaidens, or dressing to please the men or whatever.
Just makes them an arsehole.

Some of the posts are condescending and patronising which funnily enough, does tend to get peoples heckles up.
Exactly

This thread is interesting because I have felt precisely the opposite. I worked in academia for a number of years and felt that I couldn't wear much makeup or feminine clothing that I wanted to wear, because this was somehow seen as degrading. God forbid that I would ever wear anything pink - my colleagues would think that my IQ had dropped 50 points. Of course it would be perfectly fine to wear blue.

IMO this is because men have traditionally held power, and so to be successful, a women is expected to behave like a man, otherwise she is not to be taken seriously. For me, feminism is about women being respected as women, not about women becoming more like men. These days, I make a point of wearing pink to work

I don't think one answer fits all....2 children down my boobs were pretty lacklustre lol, my husband said "who cares" but TBH I hated looking at them in the mirror 4 times a day getting changed. I was mentally preparing myself to have them "filled" and saving up when I found out I was pregnant with DC3..Now DC3 is here they are lovely rounded milk givers. When I stop if they shrink bag to saggy skin sacks I'll defo have them nicely rounded and noone would ever notice as I don't intend to go full Katie Price. Just make them pert and nice. In a bra, bikini, gym top the sagging nature was unnoticeable!!

@MidnightMeltdown that's interesting. I attended an Open University residential years back and remarked on how many of the tutors were quite.....dowdy and I wondered why.

YANBU X100!!

I think there are two types of people Op. Those who fall for the bullshiit and those who don't.

E.g of the first:

Actually I see it the other way round. Look at older men - they all look dreadful. Boring, plain, grey or bald, gone to seed, sunken eyes. I think women are luckier, because we can have fun with makeup and jewellery and clothes in a way that straight men are not allowed to.

Who is "allowing" anyone to do anything? Why is it "fun" to chop bits off yourself or inject yourself with poison?

Load. Of. Bollocks.

@MidnightMeltdown

This thread is interesting because I have felt precisely the opposite. I worked in academia for a number of years and felt that I couldn't wear much makeup or feminine clothing that I wanted to wear, because this was somehow seen as degrading. God forbid that I would ever wear anything pink - my colleagues would think that my IQ had dropped 50 points. Of course it would be perfectly fine to wear blue.

IMO this is because men have traditionally held power, and so to be successful, a women is expected to behave like a man, otherwise she is not to be taken seriously. For me, feminism is about women being respected as women, not about women becoming more like men. These days, I make a point of wearing pink to work

This really resonates with me. In my first job in the early 90s I worked in a team of very radical feminists. I was bullied for my appearance, including being told my knee length skirt was inappropriate, and asked if I realised the message I was given to men about women by showing my legs and wearing lipstick. It was many years later before I realised that feminism shouldn't be trading being told what to do by men for being told what to do by other women. And that it wasn't about not wearing make up or certain clothes, but about the right to wear what I liked and not be judged. Threads like this take me back to those days, which after 30 years I would have hoped we had moved on from.

I think there are two types of people Op. Those who fall for the bullshiit and those who don't.

That is such a basic and simplistic generalisation. Is there no middle ground for anyone anymore?

Most women I find are somewhere in the middle . They recognise most of the bullshit and also adhere to some societal norms (specific and individual to every woman) either because they like/enjoy them or because they're too uncomfortable not to. That doesn't make them stupid or blind or falling for bullshit.

I hate wearing a bra. I still wear one in public, especially when warm.
I hate shaving , I still do it when I deem it necessary.
I love high heels, but I can't really wear them comfortably so I don't.

If you ever bought ,used or did something that was advertised and promoted either by the media,SM or word of mouth, then technically you fell for the "bullshit".

Sometimes we like the bullshit,sometimes it benefits us, sometimes it's just not worth the hassle to go against it.

Everyone is influenced by the society they live in for the majority of their choices. Extremes, at either end of the spectrum, are damaging and harmful in their own way.