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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Am I mad to want another baby before leaving my husband?

304 replies

DisneyBaby · 12/04/2021 00:07

My husband and I have been very up and down throughout our whole relationship, he's always been lazy and not much help around the house, he has a gambling problem which has resulted in trust issues and he can have a bit of a temper with me at times too.
We have been together 10 years, married 4 and have a 15 month old daughter. I have always wanted 3/4 children close together in age so they would have a close bond like my sisters and I had growing up. But I am now pretty certain after deliberating about it for several years, that I want to leave my husband. I do believe I can do better, and a lot of friends and family have told me the same.
I worry that I wouldn't meet someone new straight away and I think about my daughter growing up with no siblings close in age, and it makes me think... Should I just stay for a few months longer and have baby number two so that my daughter will have a playmate, or is that totally stupid? As much as I would love another baby myself, this decision is more based around her, if I were to be a single Mum she wouldn't have someone else to play with at home and that breaks my heart.. Surely I can't be the only person who has thought or planned such a thing??? Am I crazy?

OP posts:
Burmilla · 12/04/2021 10:15

IMHO, your proposed plan is irresponsible.
My parents wanted another child. Sibling hated me as I wasn't a boy. Father was disappointed for the same reason. Mother felt ashamed. Ditto all the relatives. They made my life Hell. I was the subject of familial csa. Family all knew. Nothing was done.
I grew up a solitary child. My dog and my pony were my best friends, together with endless books. Sixty + years later, it's just the same.
It's left me feeling as if I will never be good enough. I have a very successful professional career and a lovely home, with cat and horse, all paid for. They're the only ones that I trust.

pumpkinpie01 · 12/04/2021 10:18

I know someone who did this, but they were both in agreement with it. They had just fallen out of love and knew they weren't going to last, they have a 3 year gap between their daughters and he is a very good dad. If he had been a gambler and was short on patience that would be a different story.

Drunkenmonkey · 12/04/2021 10:19

I actually don't think this is that strange. (Haven't RTFT)
I can understand why you want to do it. Can you financially support two children?

DrSbaitso · 12/04/2021 10:31

I don't think it's strange or that unusual, but that doesn't mean I think it's a good idea.

StoneofDestiny · 12/04/2021 10:47

Unbelievable.
Utterly selfish.

overwork · 12/04/2021 10:58

You can't guarantee they'll get on even if you do have them close in age. It's madness. Move on, become happy in your own right. If you do meet someone else and have kids, great. If not you and your daughter will be fine. But your current plan is crazy, not to mention immoral.

littlepattilou · 12/04/2021 11:01
Hmm
CagneyNYPD · 12/04/2021 11:13

I've read many strange things on here. But this is right up there.

You are considering deliberately bringing a new life into the mess of your marriage. In the full knowledge that the marriage is over. And that your dh has anger issues and addiction problems. Just so that at you can fulfil your selfish need to have a playmate for your DD.

I'm calling it now. This can't be real. I hope this isn't real.

Drunkenmonkey · 12/04/2021 11:25

To those saying it's really selfish. Do you feel the same about a single parent adopting or going through IVF alone? Not trying to argue, just genuinely interested.

ChubbyLittleManInACampervan · 12/04/2021 11:39

Drunkenmoney, with adoptive children or IVF or donor there is no selfish, as the consent of the male parent can be assumed

To use someone as a sperm donor AND future father of the child (with all the responsibilities that entails, financial and emotional) whilst already planning to divorce them is manipulative (and selfish)

Can’t you see the difference? It’s about using someone

Likeohmygod · 12/04/2021 11:44

I dont agree that it's stupid or selfish at all. I've 2 dc and I'm done now . But if I wanted another I'd only have one with my dp and we are actually currently talking about separating for many reasons. I'd want all my children to have the same dad. Dp actually agrees with me on this which is surprising as he never agrees with me on anything. But I would speak to dp about it and not trick him into it.
I totally understand where you're coming from.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 12/04/2021 11:56

Why are some posters comparing consenting partners/adoption with the scenario that the OP is presenting? It's not the same thing at all.

OP has been careful not to mention what sort of father her partner is to his existing child too. He's a gambler though... enough of a problem to be mentioned.

I don't like this statement much but it's true; just because somebody can have children, doesn't mean that they should.

jacks11 · 12/04/2021 11:57

@Drunkenmonkey

No, it isn’t even remotely the same thing.

Firstly, using IVF or adopting when single in no way requires duping the other parent into conceiving another child without full knowledge of the fact that once pregnant, their partner is going to leave them. That is pretty despicable behaviour. Can you imagine if a man suggested to his wife that they have another child, whilst simultaneously planning to leave her the minute she was pregnant/the baby was born? He would be called all the names under the sun on MN. Rightly, it’s a vindictive, selfish thing to do. But when a woman does it? Quite a lot of women seem fine with it. In any case, it is in no way similar to choosing to adopt or have IVF as a lone parent. Though I do think the latter of those options can leave unanswered questions regarding their parentage and that is worthy of consideration, even though I might not term it selfish.

Secondly, OP paints her partner as a lazy, reckless gambler who has a short fuse. Someone she dislikes and does not trust. Yet, she wants to saddle another child with that sort of man as a partner. Again, utterly dissimilar to the situations you are talking about.

If he is as bad as op says he is, why does she want her children to be exposed to that? So they can have a sibling? So she can attempt to fulfill some Disney fantasy of happy families skipping off to daddy for the weekend leaving mummy to have a lovely restful weekend, resting assured that they’ll all be having a wonderful time because they have a sibling. Of course, if they did not, their time with daddy would be awful.... but why would that be if he is a wonderful parent? Or is she foolishly trying to recreate her childhood? Big gamble, no guarantee she’ll get the cosy set up she’s hoping for. That whole situation is selfishness personified. Dressed up as for the benefit of the elder child. It might work, she might get children who are get on well, are close and have a lovely relationship. Or she might not.

She might get an angry, resentful ex-husband who will do his best to make life difficult for her- pay minimum he gets away with, take little interest in the children, or worse- drop them when he meets someone else/if they start a family. He may even resent the youngest child, putting a wedge between him/her and the elder child. Of course, this is a worst case scenario and if he is a half way decent father he will step up and do his share of care/parenting and financial support. But.... given the picture painted of him by OP that does not seem the most likely outcome, does it? At the very least I imagine she’s going to have a resentful co-parent, which makes it harder than if it is amicable. Of course, that can happen after any break up, but OP is actively engineering a situation that makes that highly likely.

Being a single parent is not selfish- lots of relationships that were working well when children were conceived go on to fail. Lots of women cal pregnant outside of a serious relationship and go on to be good mothers with happy children. That is not selfish. If a single woman can financially and emotionally support an adoptive child, or her own child conceived by IVF , that is not selfish. What is selfish is tricking another person into having a child with you without knowing you plan on ending your relationship (I.e. they will also become a single parent to 2 children) so that you can have full siblings (so avoiding social embarrassment?). Worse still, when you add in that OP paints her DH as a feckless, lazy man with little in the way to recommend him and a very short fuse. ideal father material? Doesn’t sound like it. it’s one thing if you haven’t realised he isn’t the best father, but once you have to do it again seems selfish to me.

Carbara · 12/04/2021 12:03

@user64325

'on the off chance that it might play with your kid for a brief period of time'

That is totally off the mark about what a sibling relationship gives. It's one thing being an only child when you have both parents focusing all their attention on you, but if you are raised by a lone parent and you have a crap dad then being an only child is much harder.

That’s what the OPs reason for having another kid was, not mine. I don’t have siblings and grew up with a lone parent, so don’t try to school me, cheers.having kids is solely for the self indulgence of the parents, any pretence at altruism is just embarrassing.
jacks11 · 12/04/2021 12:08

@Likeohmygod

Yes, but that is something you have said you would do with the agreement of your current partner. He is in agreement and thinks it is a good idea. OP has not said she would discuss this with her partner and only do it if he agreed. She has said she is going to get pregnant, once she’s got what she wants then she’s going to leave. That is manipulative, bordering into vindictive and possibly even abusive in my view. Her partner is not able to make an informed choice as to whether he wishes to have a second child with OP. That is entirely different to the situation you outline, where you and your partner are in agreement (even though you aren’t planning to do so).

Additionally, you presumably also think your partner is a decent person (even if you don’t want to be married/in a long-term relationship with him any longer) and a good father? Not someone who you actively dislike, do not respect and think is unreliable, as well as having anger issues and a gambling addiction? If he was, would you seriously have another child with him?

NoSquirrels · 12/04/2021 12:12

@Drunkenmonkey

To those saying it's really selfish. Do you feel the same about a single parent adopting or going through IVF alone? Not trying to argue, just genuinely interested.
It's not the same.

In the case of adoption, the child is already here, and already has had a difficult start in life and needs a new family that is stable. No reason why a single person cannot give that, and the checks and the system is exhaustive to make sure of it.

In the case of IVF, the single woman is not choosing to deceive in order to get the sperm to create a baby, and is choosing to have a child where the biological father is entirely out of the picture.

In this case, the child would be conceived to an already-not-ideal father, without his true consent as parts of the situation are being withheld from him.

The desire is not the problem - the wish that things were different. But to act on it would be entirely selfish.

mamahoo · 12/04/2021 12:19

I understand where you are coming from, and I don't think it's a totally mad idea. If he is up for having another baby too, then so be it.

The only thing I would say is that o have 2 young girls close ish in age (1&3), and it is fucking hard work. My partner helps out so, so much and we don't sit down until 8 at night, even with both of us sorting out the girls, making dinner, tidying the mess up. Personally, I wouldn't want to do that on my own. I feel like I'm about to drop dead daily. That's the only bit I would worry about.

Ofallthethings · 12/04/2021 12:31

Yes you would be mad to do this. You have described your husband as lazy, a gambling addict and useless around the house. He will most likely spend your existing daughters life letting her down and you want to do that to another child? That is crazy. I've no idea why you would do this just to get a small age gap , it's not that all important. I know adults with big age gaps that get on, from split families. Not saying that leaving him and starting again will easy at all, but this issue does not need to drive your decision making.
And what are the logistics of this, would you tell him or just sleep with a man you can't stand and presumably don't love any more until you get pregnant? Would you get his consent? Seriously please rethink this one .

YoniAndGuy · 12/04/2021 12:31

Well from the other side of the coin, I wish to god a friend of mine had done what you are suggesting.

Instead of what she did do, which was to (quite rightly) leave her twat of a husband when her child was fairly small. However, she desperately wanted more children, had always wanted a big family but knew that circumstances meant that she probably wouldn't, but she was desperate for at least one more and a sibling for her DC. So she spent the next couple of years in a complete tizz, worrying about having to find a new partner and for things to work out quickly enough so that she'd have time for more kids. She jumped into OLD etc much sooner than she would have if it weren't for worrying about her biological clock and had a few disastrous relationships where she knows now that she overlooked red flags because she was so desperate to move forward. Sound familiar from about eleventy billion relationships threads, anyone?!

She did have more children, with another frankly not fantastic bloke that I'm sure she wouldn't be with now in any other circumstances.

I wished many times that she had finished her family before jumping ship. Yep she'd have been a single parent to 2, 3 maybe? I tell you something, that would have probably taken FAR less emotional energy away from the child she needed to parent alone than what actually happened, which was that she was constantly looking to build new security externally, often with crappy people. She'd have been so much more content and happy to build a life for her and her children if she had not felt like that - I honeslty think she would have stayed single for a good few years and it would have been SO much better for everyone involved.

And yes she probably should have just accepted not having more children maybe, blah blah. But this is what people DO. At least OP is clear headed enough to know herself well enough to think this through.

And step families can be hell. Just take a look on that board. I would say that actively trying to ever avoid having that level of family complexity is a very logical position to take.

Also. I know one family who are blended, where there is one child from the first marriage, then two sets of half-siblings: Mum has two more with stepdad and vv. The eldest is only three years above the oldest of the younger ones but yes does feel very much the odd one out - the only child in the family without a full sibling, the only one without anyone exactly 'the same', the only one without the other side of a family and another home.

Yes OP if I were in your position I would absolutely have another one within your current relationship.

Likeohmygod · 12/04/2021 12:35

@jacks11

I get it which is why I said i would discuss with partner if I were her.
I don't get on with my dp and actually have a lot of resentment towards him but if I only had one dc I would seriously consider having another with him so that my dc had a sibling. However I wouldn't do it behind their back I would make sure they agreed.
I think it's selfish if ops dp doesn't have a clue what's going on but wanting dc to have the same dad is a wise decision in my opinion. And that's just MY opinion and I'm aware a lot of people won't like it.

latenightmusings · 12/04/2021 12:40

@Drunkenmonkey

To those saying it's really selfish. Do you feel the same about a single parent adopting or going through IVF alone? Not trying to argue, just genuinely interested.
I don't think adoption is selfish but I do think there is an element of selfishness of single people undertaking IVF especially those using donor sperm and eggs

Just because they don't need a mother/father for their child doesn't mean that the child doesn't need one

gannett · 12/04/2021 12:49

OP's husband may be a lazy, angry gambler but she can't claim any sort of moral high ground if she thinks using him for his sperm in the full knowledge that she's going to end the marriage and take his kids away from him is an acceptable route.

If you don't want a man to be anything more than a sperm donor then have the decency to use actual sperm donors who signed up for that.

And that's before you get onto how selfish it is regarding the actual children involved.

MN is reliably completely insane about only children. Why do so many people think it's such an awful life? Do you not know any grown-up only children in your lives? None of the ones I know have issues stemming from it.

Just admit your desire for multiple children is about YOU, not some idealised sibling relationship that might not even come to pass.

Coronawireless · 12/04/2021 12:58

It’s not good it’s not heroic but I kind of see your point.

Dipi79 · 12/04/2021 13:47

Totally insane, stupid and fucking selfish.

asifnothinghappened · 12/04/2021 16:02

To those saying it's really selfish. Do you feel the same about a single parent adopting or going through IVF alone? Not trying to argue, just genuinely interested.

No.

Apart from anything, it's selfish to have a baby with someone who has every expectation of living with the child in a committed relationship when you are planning to remove the child and claim child support. They wouldn't give consent if they knew, so it some ways it is ethically awful around even trying to concieve in those circumstances. But it is very cruel to the person involved to have a baby they will probably not even get 50/50 care of and may not choose to conceive in these circumstances. In a sperm donor situation there is no father being hurt.

For the child, there is trauma in a family living situation changing whatever the age. It is not something to intentionally wish on a child. While many children may do well, it is not ideal for there to be such a seismic shift in a child's life and there are many difficulties for children in living between two homes that, while manageable, are usually considered acceptable because they are a lesser evil to an unhappy home environment, rather than a standard of care to aim for. In the OP's situation, there will also be a difference between the siblings as the OP plans to leave very shortly after the baby is born when it will be clear what she has done. It seems very unlikely that the children's bond with their father would be equal as the circumstances for them are very different. That would cause ongoing strain and tension for both children.

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