To think calling in sick for no sleep is a good enough reason?

[Rachelinaa]

I work in an office that's been open through most of lockdown due to admin we do being essential.
Recently one of my workmates has been calling in sick a lot because he hasn't been sleeping well as he's got a baby at home that won't sleep. I was shocked to hear other people at work saying they thought it was a ridiculous reason not to come to work and we've all had to come to work tired. But I thought they'd be able to see the difference between being tired and not sleeping at all. His baby has colic and the mum also works.
I've called in sick before for being too tired when my baby was a newborn and didn't sleep. I wondered what everyone else's thoughts on this was? I personally don't want someone driving to work if they're too tired to focus and I can't think that the boss would want someone in more likely to make mistakes.

Although I have sympathy, it sets a precedent for other (not so honest) people to do the same and puts pressure on other employees to cover their workload.

I think it's lazy.

I have a severely autistic child who does not sleep well at all. I get only 3-4 hours most nights. If I would call in whenever I am overtired, I wouldn't make it to work ever.

No, as a manager I wouldn’t be impressed if someone called in sick as their baby hadn’t slept. I returned to work when my ds2 was 1 and he still woke 2-3 times a night. It was exhausting but I tried not to let that impact my job.

I might do it but I wouldn’t admit to it. Certainly make up another excuse.

I'm so delighted to see posters being honest about their struggles with sleep deprivation and how damaging it can be. It's a really fucking dangerous thing.

Mental health is just as important as physical health.

It's not a race to the bottom in terms of "Well I coped with my unfair circumstances and should you"

I do agree it’s not sick, and he should have requested a days annual leave at short notice. We have someone off sick as they have no childcare due to the DH being in hospital. It’s not really sick but doctor has signed her off. I do hate it when colleagues discuss people’s sickness reason. Unless the employee has told the team himself this is definitely not something that should be disclosed to his colleagues so they can all gossip about it

@Embracingthechaos

The UK is ridiculous about sickness in the work place. It's like it's a competition to see who can run themselves the most ragged, and the winner is admired as being so dedicated. It's unhealthy and sad.

He is an adult and he decides for himself whether or not he is fit for work that day. It's pathetic to sit around gossiping about the validity of his reason. If he is off sick enough that the company policy dictates some kind of intervention then that is between him and his line manager.

I'm in Australia and over here when you call in sick you don't give the details of your illness. Your manager is not allowed to ask. Most companies offer a certain amount of sick days that you are expected to use. It's a brilliant system.

What a load of tosh. Australian sick leave, annual leave, parental leave are much less generous than in the UK. It is also normal to request sick notes.

Yes Australia has a system where they say you get ten “sick days” per year, that is because their enhanced sick pay is not as good and that is generally the limit of what they would pay without question, it is not an add on to annual leave! You are most certainly not expected to take it, you have probably been misunderstanding something if you think that is the case and you are probably one of those that your employer rolls their eyes at when you clock up your tenth sick leave day every year.

@therocinante please can I come and work for you?! I suffer from chronic insomnia, and like most have expressed on here- I just battle through most days despite feeling like absolute shit. Don't think I've ever taken a day off for it- but I should have done. I've done myself no favours working on days when I feel wretched.

I hate the idea of the Bradford scoring mechanism, in itself a tool which exacerbates my already delicate MH.

And at @Rachelinaa, agree with others- give the poor guy a break. I'd hate for others to be gossiping about my "sick days" when it's none of their business, and I was obviously already having a hard time. Given that we're midway through a pandemic I'm sure he's as aware, as everyone is, of the fact the Uk job market has been annihilated, and that he's putting himself in the spotlight by having days off.

He isn't unwell so shouldn't be calling in sick. He should ring his manager, explain what's going on and ask if he can take a day's annual leave. I'd be pissed off if a work colleague got away with it tbh.

@Embracingthechaos

The UK is ridiculous about sickness in the work place. It's like it's a competition to see who can run themselves the most ragged, and the winner is admired as being so dedicated. It's unhealthy and sad.

He is an adult and he decides for himself whether or not he is fit for work that day. It's pathetic to sit around gossiping about the validity of his reason. If he is off sick enough that the company policy dictates some kind of intervention then that is between him and his line manager.

I'm in Australia and over here when you call in sick you don't give the details of your illness. Your manager is not allowed to ask. Most companies offer a certain amount of sick days that you are expected to use. It's a brilliant system.

Wow I'm really impressed, this is such an enlightened approach which I wish we would adopt in the UK immediately.

I agree with everything you say in your post.

I’ve had to take days off for lack of sleep (thanks DC1 ) but I’ve given another reason, ie feeling sick, because I feel awful after little sleep and I really do feel so unwell that I can’t function.

I’ve now slept very few night through in about 6 years due to an awful sleeping child. Some days are ok, other days I feel like I’m going mad and feel so unwell. Luckily I only work part time, but even that coupled with home duties and medical conditions mean I am exhausted.

Of course, I do push through or I’d spend most days in bed, but I wish I could work more / feel better. I simply can’t do any more than I do.

I really hope the employer is understanding and your colleague feels much better soon. Sleep deprivation is simply awful.

You are not ‘expected’ to use your sick days in Australia ! What a ridiculous statement. You use them if you need to because you are actually SICK 🙄

Th person ringing in at OP’s workplace is also ridiculous. What if the baby doesn’t sleep through for years, will he keep ringing in?

[quote Rachelinaa]@BluebellsGreenbells we do get paid for sick days and if our kids are sick, the company is good with that. But the man in question has never really had much time off before, he's very dedicated to his job so I don't get how they can think it's an excuse instead of a decent reason.[/quote]
Sadly, sleep deprivation is a part of being a parent.

Why should an employer be paying for the employee when quite obviously not ill and solely not fit for work due to a life choice to have a child?
I say that as someone whose 6 year old continues to not sleep through and guess what you just have to plough on through it...

Your colleagues aren't being unreasonable in their opinions.

I think an occasional day is acceptable. I fell asleep at the wheel because I was told I would lose my job if I didn’t come in, after having sleep trouble.
Luckily it was only me and a wall, but I regret not standing up for myself and how unwell and tired I felt.

Not after a new baby though, that’s a different kind of tired! 😂

I'm in Australia and over here when you call in sick you don't give the details of your illness. Your manager is not allowed to ask. Most companies offer a certain amount of sick days that you are expected to use. It's a brilliant system. if you think that people don’t take the piss out of that to get a couple of weeks more holiday then you’re naive.

I grew up in a country with this policy, and at a company one of my parents worked they had a bloke who used to ring up on a Monday morning after a weekend-long bender to ask how many sick days he had left. And everybody knew, and everybody talked about him because of it. (He never actually rang the manager, just one of the office staff hence why it was out in the open.

TBH my first thought was that this bloke is looking for another job and is using the baby as an excuse to take time off for interviews.

But if people think that regularly calling in sick beause of young children should just be expected then they shouldn’t be surprised that some companies don’t want to employ parents of young children.

A couple of years ago my 1 year old was not sleeping at all. She had a very severe chest infection with no gag reflex so would be up vomiting throughout the night once she was laid on her back and started coughing. It was a cycle of finally get to sleep, be woken up to the sound of vomiting, change her clothes and the towels around her bed, settle her, repeat.
She finally was prescribed an inhaler and things got better, but for a good 4 months straight that's what my nights looked like and me and dh were both working full time.

I remember my colleagues were always asking why I looked so tired. Most were young and childless and couldn't really get it. I could be snappy at work and got a lot of bad reviews that year because of a bad temper. I also got promoted though, and I don't know if I would have if I'd asked for four months unpaid leave until my dd got better. It was a horrible time though. I had taken more time of sick than usual anyway because since I was so exhausted, I was picking up every bug under the sun. A lot of d&v bugs came home from my dds nursery.

One night I was doing the usual routine with dd before a big presentation the next morning. I noticed my junior colleague had sent me a text around 9pm about getting a taxi to the location in the morning. By the time I read it, it was 4am and I was up anyway so I managed to organize the taxi and text her the details.

In the cab on the way there the next morning my colleague asked me what I was doing up at 4am. I explained it was just the usual night drama with dd that happens every night. It was like I saw the penny drop right in front of me. Here she was after an amazing night sleep trying to prepare for this important presentation and for me it was just now my life that I would have zero sleep and still rock up the next day and have to perform.

So I think as a colleague you should try to understand accept the reality of the situation. If someone comes into work with a constant lack of sleep, they're going to be ratty at best, unable to perform at their worst. Do you want that colleague working beside you? In my case I didn't have the energy for peoples bullshit work problems and vocalized that and it was reflected in my reviews. But I could still perform well for the big things and that was recognized too.

If colleagues are expecting someone not to sleep and stroll in like employee of the month then they are being unreasonable. If that is the kind of environment, then the colleague should just call in sick. They can't just take a magic potion to erase the night before.

We don't get paid sick pay for the first 3 days. So if I took a day off sick for whatever reason I wouldnt be paid. Sonos have be properly unwell. I've been there for a long time though and we are a good team, so they'd give me the option to make up the time most likely. If you can and can afford it or get paid anyway then fair enough.

I don’t get all the people saying “I drag myself in, it’s awful but I do it anyway, he should too”.

Maybe you SHOULDN’T drag yourselves in when you feel unwell as a consequence of exhaustion? Why is the profit-line etc of the company you work for more important than your well-being and mental health?

It’s only a few sick days that he says he needs - it’s days, not weeks or months.

I know I already mentioned it, but read “Why We Sleep”, it’s such an eye-opener.

The only relevant question is - are you fit to work that day? If not, you shouldn't be there, regardless of the reason.

If you end up on absence management, this should take the form of looking at what can be done to help, what support do you need rather than 'punishing' you for absence - but I know the reality of absence management is often close to the latter.

It's daft. I doubt he'll get away with it for long.

I agree with Embracingthechaos.

I work to live, I don't live to work. I don't give a crap whether my reason for phoning in sick is valid to other people, it's valid to me and your friends reason is valid to him.

Why should he risk his performance, and go down the disciplinary route when he knows a day or 2 off will help him get back on track?

There is a difference between occasionally and regularly. In such circumstances in an admin role, is there really no work that could be done from home? Admin may be essential but does it have to all be in a work building? Someone who has an illness that could spread or needs the toilet at no notice so could not travel could do some work, for example.

I agree about the aspect of not driving when excessively tired.

I would (& have) gone in on no sleep. I don't get paid otherwise so it's not worth it!

I think it’s strange too. I was in a different work location for a while and one of the employees did this a lot, his partner was a sahp but he was insistent that he had to do all the night feeds etc so would call in sick as was to tired to work. I was shocked but everyone else thought it was fine.

I think it's funny that it's a man who took the time off! As a boss, I'd probably be ok about it if the staff member had reached the end of their tether and just needed to sleep. but if it happened all the time, I wouldn't - I think sleepless nights are what we all go through when we have children. It's a thing. And its horrible but just get on with it. If you have a partner, then you can ensure that you share the load and get a little bit of sleep.

If all the staff members with young babies did this, it would have a big impact at work.

I now have insomnia occasionally and sometimes get zero hours sleep a night. That is a killer - I'm older and more senior too now.