To think calling in sick for no sleep is a good enough reason?

[Rachelinaa]

I work in an office that's been open through most of lockdown due to admin we do being essential.
Recently one of my workmates has been calling in sick a lot because he hasn't been sleeping well as he's got a baby at home that won't sleep. I was shocked to hear other people at work saying they thought it was a ridiculous reason not to come to work and we've all had to come to work tired. But I thought they'd be able to see the difference between being tired and not sleeping at all. His baby has colic and the mum also works.
I've called in sick before for being too tired when my baby was a newborn and didn't sleep. I wondered what everyone else's thoughts on this was? I personally don't want someone driving to work if they're too tired to focus and I can't think that the boss would want someone in more likely to make mistakes.

@Embracingthechaos

The UK is ridiculous about sickness in the work place. It's like it's a competition to see who can run themselves the most ragged, and the winner is admired as being so dedicated. It's unhealthy and sad.

He is an adult and he decides for himself whether or not he is fit for work that day. It's pathetic to sit around gossiping about the validity of his reason. If he is off sick enough that the company policy dictates some kind of intervention then that is between him and his line manager.

I'm in Australia and over here when you call in sick you don't give the details of your illness. Your manager is not allowed to ask. Most companies offer a certain amount of sick days that you are expected to use. It's a brilliant system.

I agree. I'm in the United States, and we get called out on our Health Care System all the time (as we should). But at least we have reasonable Sick Time. @MadMadMadamMim says people would be on an absenteeism plan after 3 sick days IN A YEAR. What??? I get 10 paid Sick Days and 3 paid Personal Days a year (and I work in a school, so only working 10 months a year). I cant imagine the mentality of 3 sick days a year being a bad thing.

This is why the world would be a different place is men had the children and looked after them, women are expected to suffer in silence.

Sleep deprivation is so hard but how many women on here say the night waking is all/mostly left up to them?

Sounds like this guy is doing his share, which is how it should be.

It’s not that in the UK you can’t have more than 3 days of sickness - many companies use something called the Bradford Factor to look at patterns of time off. Basically if someone takes lots of single days off - maybe in a pattern, like often Fridays or whatever- that can be more symptomatic of problematic absenteeism (‘swinging the lead’, as my late FIL would say) than an employee taking a 3-5 days off in a row once or twice a year.

This lays it out well
www.brighthr.com/articles/leave-and-absence/the-bradford-factor/advantages-and-disadvantages-of-the-bradford-factor/

We are short staffed as it is ( NHS ). If somebody doesn’t turn-up for a shift we all suffer. If you can’t do the job then you need to move on.

Curious to know if the babies mum is also needing to call in sick from tiredness.

@Embracingthechaos

The UK is ridiculous about sickness in the work place. It's like it's a competition to see who can run themselves the most ragged, and the winner is admired as being so dedicated. It's unhealthy and sad.

He is an adult and he decides for himself whether or not he is fit for work that day. It's pathetic to sit around gossiping about the validity of his reason. If he is off sick enough that the company policy dictates some kind of intervention then that is between him and his line manager.

I'm in Australia and over here when you call in sick you don't give the details of your illness. Your manager is not allowed to ask. Most companies offer a certain amount of sick days that you are expected to use. It's a brilliant system.

So, so agree.

The English workplace backstabbery is awful.

I went back to work full time (clinical staff on hospital wards) when non-sleeper DS1 was eight months old and still waking 8+ times a night. He wouldn’t settle for DH so I was doing every one of those night wakings. It was the same all over again for DS2. If being tired/underslept because of a baby was a reason to call in sick, I could have taken three or four years off work. You harden to it, you survive you crack on.

I'm in Australia and over here when you call in sick you don't give the details of your illness. Your manager is not allowed to ask. Most companies offer a certain amount of sick days that you are expected to use. It's a brilliant system.

I’m from Australia originally - it’s really not much different in the UK. I found there was just as much presenteeism in Australia as in the UK - or conversely eyebrows raised when you suspected someone of ‘chucking a sickie’. Sick leave is paid in both countries and you’re not required in the UK to say why you’re calling in sick, although the vast majority of people would disclose so the employer has a reasonable idea of when to expect them back. I never got the sense in Australia that I was ‘expected to take’ sick leave...it’s there if you need it, just like the UK.

@user7891011

Just because some of you have insomnia and deal with lack of sleep everyday doesn't mean this guy can deal with it as well as you. You should all know the impact it can have on your mental health as well🤔 have some compassion. He has to be fully functioning to look after the baby at night also whereas you can just lie there not using energy. YANBU

This. YANBU. I also agree with the person who said the UK's attitude to sickness is pretty appalling it's like a competition as to who can drag themselves in when they are not fit for work.

It really doesn't matter what other people think, it only matters how he feels. Sounds like he's a generally good employee and not taking the mick - as an adult he can judge for himself if he is capable to work or not.

When my kids have had a poor night’s sleep - they go into school late - they don’t take the day off. I would not be impressed with a work colleague taking a whole day off in these circumstances but you’ll get people who’ll take a day off for a sneeze.

@ElphabaTheGreen

I went back to work full time (clinical staff on hospital wards) when non-sleeper DS1 was eight months old and still waking 8+ times a night. He wouldn’t settle for DH so I was doing every one of those night wakings. It was the same all over again for DS2. If being tired/underslept because of a baby was a reason to call in sick, I could have taken three or four years off work. You harden to it, you survive you crack on.

I'm in Australia and over here when you call in sick you don't give the details of your illness. Your manager is not allowed to ask. Most companies offer a certain amount of sick days that you are expected to use. It's a brilliant system.

I’m from Australia originally - it’s really not much different in the UK. I found there was just as much presenteeism in Australia as in the UK - or conversely eyebrows raised when you suspected someone of ‘chucking a sickie’. Sick leave is paid in both countries and you’re not required in the UK to say why you’re calling in sick, although the vast majority of people would disclose so the employer has a reasonable idea of when to expect them back. I never got the sense in Australia that I was ‘expected to take’ sick leave...it’s there if you need it, just like the UK.

If I call in sick (UK) I have to have a Return To Work interview and they specifically ask me the reason why I was off. I don't know what would happen if I refused to answer but presumably they expect to be told. So this is not quite right. I would love to not be asked the reason.

Yabu. The only time I've had extended time off ill was due to severe mh issues after baby was born ( psychiatrist sign off, not just the gp) I think taking time off just because your baby cries a lot is a bit and dramatic
My lo cried a lot but I just got on with it dragged up on psychiatrist prescribed medication at the time too.

Im on the fence about this. Before having a baby with bad colic myself I'd have thought how ridiculous but there were days I honestly thought I was losing my mind after a run of several nights of barely any sleep. It can be absolute torture. I would just go into the other room and scream and throw things sometimes.

I remember once after having about 30 minutes sleep all day and night for about two days on the trot, driving to my husband's work and telling him he needed to get in the car and come home RN because DS was trying to kill me 🤣 (he's SE though tbf). He did come home with me and I slept for about 24hrs whilst he looked after DS. It was the best sleep I've ever had.

@somuchlaundrytowash

Yabu. The only time I've had extended time off ill was due to severe mh issues after baby was born ( psychiatrist sign off, not just the gp) I think taking time off just because your baby cries a lot is a bit and dramatic My lo cried a lot but I just got on with it dragged up on psychiatrist prescribed medication at the time too.

Drugged of course, not dragged

It’s not that in the UK you can’t have more than 3 days of sickness - many companies use something called the Bradford Factor to look at patterns of time off. Basically if someone takes lots of single days off - maybe in a pattern, like often Fridays or whatever- that can be more symptomatic of problematic absenteeism (‘swinging the lead’, as my late FIL would say) than an employee taking a 3-5 days off in a row once or twice a year.

The Bradford scale is pretty shit when you have a fluctuating condition, when your fitness for work can change by the day.

Why is he giving details are to why he is calling in sick? He just has to call in sick.

If I call in sick (UK) I have to have a Return To Work interview and they specifically ask me the reason why I was off. I don't know what would happen if I refused to answer but presumably they expect to be told. So this is not quite right. I would love to not be asked the reason.

Yes - I have to do those return to work interviews with my staff. People are asked to provide a reason why they were off - ‘sickness’ is adequate. There is no requirement to go into details, although most people do to show they have nothing to hide.

@AbsentmindedWoman

It’s not that in the UK you can’t have more than 3 days of sickness - many companies use something called the Bradford Factor to look at patterns of time off. Basically if someone takes lots of single days off - maybe in a pattern, like often Fridays or whatever- that can be more symptomatic of problematic absenteeism (‘swinging the lead’, as my late FIL would say) than an employee taking a 3-5 days off in a row once or twice a year.

The Bradford scale is pretty shit when you have a fluctuating condition, when your fitness for work can change by the day.

Oh yeah - I fully agree. My DH suffers with chronic migraine and needs to disclose this at any job offer/new job stage because of the bloody Bradford Factor! The article I linked does go into why it shouldn’t be used on its own for precisely the reason you give.

What??? I get 10 paid Sick Days and 3 paid Personal Days a year (and I work in a school, so only working 10 months a year). I cant imagine the mentality of 3 sick days a year being a bad thing.

I used to get 6 months full pay and 6 months 1/2 pay. It varies by employer and often on length of service.

As an employer I have had to deal with someone in a similar situation.
Technically the employee is not sick, however, if they are not fit for work they should phone in and either take a days holiday or unpaid leave.

When I have periods of chronic insomnia I get very low emotionally to the point of being suicidal, which is not uncommon with insomnia

Yep. There were times I would have quit my job if it meant some sleep. I think some people handle it better than others.

I'm about to do a. Second 12 hour shift today as did one yesterday on 3 hours sleep and have had 5 hours today but I manage and my work is not affected. So no it's not a good enough reason yabu

Thinking about this, it would depend on the job imo.

I'd personally hate to know my surgeon or plane pilot was working on barely any sleep. So much so he felt the need to take the day off but didn't because of what others would think.

@Embracingthechaos when I lived inIz you were actively encouraged to use your 10 days paid sick leave each year or it could role over the the next year. However I came from an employer in theUK who provided 6 months full pay and 6 months half pay within a 18 month period so I was never that impressed with the Ozzie system.
One of my coworkers had a broken leg and received Bombay after the first two weeks😳

@Rachelinaa

I work in an office that's been open through most of lockdown due to admin we do being essential. Recently one of my workmates has been calling in sick a lot because he hasn't been sleeping well as he's got a baby at home that won't sleep. I was shocked to hear other people at work saying they thought it was a ridiculous reason not to come to work and we've all had to come to work tired. But I thought they'd be able to see the difference between being tired and not sleeping at all. His baby has colic and the mum also works. I've called in sick before for being too tired when my baby was a newborn and didn't sleep. I wondered what everyone else's thoughts on this was? I personally don't want someone driving to work if they're too tired to focus and I can't think that the boss would want someone in more likely to make mistakes.

Why are details of his health being shared with colleagues?

Fat morning fingers “lived in Oz” and as for Bombay😂 should say no pay😂