They are keeping Andrew out the way, arent they?

[ssd]

On the bbc news, 3 out 4 of the queen's children wished to say something in tribute to their father...

Andrew is obviously been kept on the back burner. They must know there's only so much the less fawning of us can take.

Thank you!

It does occur to me that if Andrew's desperate to be back in the public eye because he misses the attention he can just call his nephew and ask Netflix/Archewell Productions to bring back Budgie the Little Helicopter.

Btw VladmirsPoutine your posts are always so great.

'The idea that Presumption of Innocence means that the general public is legally or morally obligated to act as though someone is innocent is not based on any kind of legal fact and is based on sheer ignorance of the legal system.'

Oh no you misunderstand, don't have to 'act' like anything. I could not give a rat's ass if you think he is innocent or not. The facts are we don't know anyway. It is the 'paedo', 'kiddy fiddler' and 'nonce' defamatory crap on mn I object to. Say he is guilty of associating with a sex offender all you like. That bit we know is true.

I don't think andrew wants to be out doing his public duty again, shaking hands and smiling at babies. I think he just can't understand our nerve in not holding him in our highest esteem, just because of who his mum is. He knows he doesn't need to answer to us oiks, but he fully expects our deference at all times.
Thats what he wants back. He sees it as his right.

Bang on Ssd, the epitome of 'entitlement'.

Defamation laws are separate from Presumption of Innocence.

It's true that using a public forum to make a factual statement could in theory result in Mumsnet being sued for libel.

Stating "My personal opinion is that Andrew is a nonce" is not "defamatory crap" and certainly nothing to do with Presumption of Innocence.

There are plenty of facts on the record that we can look at in order to form our opinions - not least, the fact a sex trafficked teenager accused him of having sex with her while she was underage - and surely plenty more facts yet to be revealed.

There are also plenty of facts about the dubious nature and questions surrounded some of his financial and property deals; the fact he directly financially profited from his PitchPalace scheme; about his involvement with arms dealers; his ties to foreign corruption and bribery scandals; his close relationships with arms dealers, numerous convicted criminals, and human rights violators; his abuse of public money to pay for personal leisure trips...

'There are plenty of facts on the record that we can look at in order to form our opinions - not least, the fact a sex trafficked teenager accused him of having sex with her while she was underage - and surely plenty more facts yet to be revealed.'

Yes she accused him. Yet to be proven. That is the actual point.

'Btw VladmirsPoutine your posts are always so great'

Oh yes, the 'kindly fiddler' one was absolutely fantastic!!! I had no idea anyone still used such offensive terminology 🙄.

Horrible.

There are plenty of facts on the record that we can look at in order to form our opinions - not least, the fact a sex trafficked teenager accused him of having sex with her while she was underage - and surely plenty more facts yet to be revealed

So one 'fact' in your post - the 'fact' that he's been accused. Not 'plenty' of facts so not possible to state there will be 'plenty more'. Since you're such a stickler for correct terminology @ohforarainyday.

It's a fact that he's been accused of raping an underage sex trafficked girl.

It is a fact he visited the same pedophile-owned private island where the alleged sex with a minor took place.

It's a fact he was photographed with his arm around a sex trafficked teenager yet claimed to have no memory of ever meeting her.

It's a fact he was friends with a convicted pedophile and sex trafficker.

It's a fact he stayed in the home of a convicted child sex abuser after his conviction.

It's a fact he has refused requests to speak to law enforcement.

Please, keep defending accused rapists with a long history of links to corruption and arms dealers. It makes you look brilliant that you're so desperate to defend Prince Andrew. Can't wait for the next time someone says "no one on Mumsnet has ever defended Andrew."

It's a fact that he's been accused of raping an underage sex trafficked girl

Already acknowledged. It's a fact that he's accused of doing that.

It's a fact he was photographed with his arm around a sex trafficked teenager yet claimed to have no memory of ever meeting her

A person who alleges that she was trafficked. 20 years ago so hardly surprising if he doesn't remember.

It is a fact he visited the same pedophile-owned private island where the alleged sex with a minor took place. It's a fact he was friends with a convicted pedophile and sex trafficker.
Same as thousands of other people cultivated by Epstein.

It's a fact he has refused requests to speak to law enforcement

Its a fact that he's refused to go to interview with the FBI. He's offered a written statement. We don't know if UK Police are involved and if he's refused them.

Please, keep defending accused rapists with a long history of links to corruption and arms dealers. It makes you look brilliant that you're so desperate to defend Prince Andrew. Can't wait for the next time someone says "no one on Mumsnet has ever defended Andrew."

I don't give a shit what someone like you thinks, I've got a mind of my own. stop trying to manipulate Mumsnet.

Pointing out facts is not "an attempt to manipulate Mumsnet."

Trying desperately to paint a child sex trafficking victim as a liar, on the other hand...

@ssd

I don't think andrew wants to be out doing his public duty again, shaking hands and smiling at babies. I think he just can't understand our nerve in not holding him in our highest esteem, just because of who his mum is. He knows he doesn't need to answer to us oiks, but he fully expects our deference at all times. Thats what he wants back. He sees it as his right.

This and cosying up with billionaires and movers and shakers and of course his tax payer funded helicopter jaunts to golf courses.

He spoke about his father a few days ago on TV. Same time as edward and sophie

I can't imagine the fear and trepidation that woman must have felt coming forward to accuse a senior member of a hugely global (and popular?) Royal family of something so heinous. It's not something you just wake up and do for jaunts.

I don't like andrew much, too spoilt and entitled for my liking, but he hasn't been convicted of anything, so it is wrong to sprinkle the internet with fake facts.

What "fake facts" do you believe are being "sprinkled"?

The only "fake facts" are the ones being spread by those who believe rubbish like the FBI can just nip onto a plane and pop over with a pair of handcuffs to interview/arrest people outside of their legal jurisdiction whenever they feel like it, or that innocent until proven guilty prevents ordinary members of the public from having opinions.

You only want people to have opinions if they're the same as yours @ohforarainyday, otherwise you try to manipulate Mumsnet into deleting them or twist what they say to shut them up.

I think you'll find plenty of people have the same opinions on him as @ohforarainyday

it is wrong to sprinkle the internet with fake facts

Can you elaborate on the fake facts being sprinkled?

@notagainmummy

He spoke about his father a few days ago on TV. Same time as edward and sophie

Edward and Sophie haven't been keeping company with convicted sex offenders, diverted charitable funds to their employees, used tax payer funded helicopters like taxis, failed to repay lump sums due on monstrous ski chalets and stepped back from public duties.

What is your point?

@ssd

I think you'll find plenty of people have the same opinions on him as *@ohforarainyday*

I know very well they do but not everyone tries to shut ppl up by use of manipulative technique.

“ It's a fact he was photographed with his arm around a sex trafficked teenager yet claimed to have no memory of ever meeting her”

To be fair, who can remember everyone they spoke to twenty years ago. I certainly can’t, and people are more likely to remember meeting him because of who he is, rather than the other way around.

I’m actually surprised this thread is still standing due to all the (alleged) accusations made against Prince Andrew. Similar threads speculating about other people would soon be taken down.

I wonder what other people threads would certainly be taken down. Not threads on Harry, that's for sure. They are full of speculation. Harry feels this, Meghan obviously wanted that, Harry was this that or the other, Meghan expected blah blah.....

Andrew might not remember everyone he met 20 years ago, but the photograph would certaily jog his memory I'm sure...
He distinctly remembered going to the Pizza Express in Woking at 4pm...after all....

"Not threads on Harry, that's for sure."

They are ALL taken down, sooner or later. Two in the last day or so, for a start.

All the threads on Harry are taken down? Really?

You might like to check that... there's about 30 just this year standing. Have a look.

I know very well they do but not everyone tries to shut ppl up by use of manipulative technique.

Yes, it's very hard when someone asks for facts, isn't it?

So much easier to scream abuse and hurl false accusations around.

It's honestly quite frightening how how determined you are to silence anyone who doesn't share your pro-Andrew opinions.