Running out of ways to congratulate my husband

[AdifferentGoat]

My husband is doing quite well in his job. He's always been driven and rather disciplined. I have struggled massively as to get my act together due to lingering depression. I'm actively working on this. To cut a long story short, he is forever talking about his achievements, sending whatsapp messages about articles that pertain to his field, using most opportunities as to inspire discussions that draw the discussion back to him... I could go on and on.
He's upset because I don't understand how busy he is. I get it. He's very busy and important but I miss the man I once knew. I miss him. I'm not enjoying being married to a walking well-aligned resume. The other day he was a bit off and I asked him what was wrong. With a sigh, he stated he was hurt that a colleague of his did not congratulate him on something. Am I being unreasonable to think maybe my husband is lost in the great abyss that is his unending need to be validated? Naturally there is more to him but I'm struggling with this issue and it's tainting my perception of him 😔

The new baby story is really sad. No, it was not necessary to make a situation which should have been about you as the new mum and to an extent him as the new dad with your baby at the centre all about him and his work. No wonder you were thinking WTF

Tatiana is correct that it is like you are a satellite in his life. You need and deserve light, space and attention. Honestly, I am rooting for you to start to give it to yourself and grow. It won’t happen overnight but just begin to carve out space for you and what you want in your own mind first. It is hard with a baby as their needs are quite all-encompassing. But your husband is an adult, his needs should not be!!

I should add, that over the lifetime of the company he started, it has been common for DH to work himself on an evening and at the weekend, but in a low key way and not late into the night. He also never involved his colleagues in this.
He has still been very present in family life and done his fair share of cooking etc unbidden.
He does get praise, increasingly, but it’s normally of the business, which he shares with colleagues because they share the credit. I just can’t picture all the fawning praise that your DH reports being accurate. He sounds like a boastful schoolboy or the taproom Billy Bullshitter who turns every conservation to the subject of how he triumphed in x situation or how Y told him he could have been a pro footballer/golfer blah blah.

Your DH really lacks self awareness as to how he is coming across. I don’t know how you have put up with it.

Is HE American?

He just left for a run. in your post at 8:07 U.K. time.

There is nowhere is the US that it is not the middle of the night right now.

I’ve just seen that you are in the US. I understand there is a significantly different work culture there and I can believe that there might be a higher expectation and tolerance of self-promotion. I still think your DH must be coming across as unbalanced and a massive dick though, and his marginalisation of you is unacceptable.

Does he work from home? Perhaps he can't switch off? Easy to say, oh I'll just check work emails quickly and get sucked into a problem for hours.

Does sound awful though, like the sticker chart idea.

I hesitate to suggest any buzzwords. I was going to suggest that as it is the weekend, he can leverage the opportunity to spend time with his wife and baby. But you would end up having to listen to ten minutes more at least of how busy he is. So no, disengage and work out how you want to spend your time. Friends? Some visualisations of what you want your life to look like?

Thinking on the last point, there is a meditation I like called ‘Open Hearted Acceptance’ by Kelly McGonigal. Contrary to what the title suggests it is not about acceptance of a situation but actually about visualising what you want to see in your life, what needs to change to bring that about and what needs to go. If you are feeling that you have lost yourself, something like that might be helpful to reflect on what you want from your life.

He sounds insufferable and pompous. If you stay like this your self worth and very being will be suppressed or even eroded. Are you tied to staying in the US? If he is American I suppose you may well not be able to leave.

I know you have spoken to him about his job and its impact but have you really talked about his behaviour and the impact on you and your relationship? I think I’d impress on him how serious it is and that you might go if he doesn’t shape up.

Yeah, sounds just like my husband was, your last post confirmed it for me. Sometimes he got quite competitive with me. See, you actually do have a big, important job. Sleepless nights, long hours etc etc ...... but ... his job is worse!! There’s a bit of him trying to trump you too. Self esteem problem. Mine was, sometimes still is, the same. I just don’t listen to it anymore. I got to where you are a few times, the end of my tether. Sat him down, told him exactly what his issue was and now every time he flaps around with that panicked look on his face, I get quite cross and tell him to pack it in. I won’t tolerate it now after years of tolerating it. We’re married 30 years. We have grown up kids. I’ve got to say, him putting his job first and not his family nearly broke us a few times, but he’s a good man - just a pain in the arse sometimes . I also have one of my children who does exactly the same and risks their own relationship. I have pulled my son up on it and he says it’s because he needs to share the burden to feel like he can cope with it. I think though, that it’s quite a competitive, needing to feel the big man thing. I guess self esteem, but if they weren’t so competitive it wouldn’t show itself the way it does.

Thank you. I'm now starting to try and focus on myself. We have recently hired a nanny/house helper to come in a few times during the work-week for several hours so I can have space to look for work. I am very grateful for this otherwise I don't know how I'd manage re finding work as our little one is very unsettled these days.

I think once I'm able to find work and feel I have a stronger foundation beneath me, I'll feel better. My therapist has been godsent and I think feels a bit sorry for me but I'll take it

All these messages are helping me so much. I was so miserable and alone and am starting to hope that maybe all is not lost. The depression became so integral to who I was, I was starting having trouble remembering who I was before it.

@HaveringWavering

He just left for a run. in your post at 8:07 U.K. time.

There is nowhere is the US that it is not the middle of the night right now.

Let's just say where I am in the US is in 'Saturday'. I cannot go into further detail without worrying I'll out myself. He knows I frequent mumsnet as a reader. I did convince his that mumsnet was the local mums group His run was to refresh himself as he needs to clear his mind for a full day today/tomorrow. I'm up breastfeeding baby.

Oh bloody hell OP, he sounds absolutely insufferable!

I've swung from laughing at the star chart idea, to feeling so incredibly sad for you.

I wonder if he was a significant factor in your depression to start with because I can only see it that you're this beautiful flower that's trying to grow and bloom but you've got this enormous cloud over you (your self-important husband) and he's blocking all the light from making that happen?!

He most certainly isn't helping your recovery that's for sure.

Covid allowing, could you go for a break to your family to have some thinking space away from his ME ME ME? You might see how you want to live your life then. Best of luck.

He is running in the middle of the night?

Since your DH is so busy, I think he needs a time management specialist to come in and help.
Remind him that he is UNDER performing as a father and people will JUDGE him on that. You can increase his worrys on this by praising some good dad's you know of.
Suggest he pencil in quality time to be a dad and work talk will be banned. You will helpfully do a Meghan and touch his hand if he wonders into work talk when it is baby time...

@HaveringWavering

He is running in the middle of the night?

Yes. I can see him from the window. Not so much running though but brisk walking as he responds to messages. I have told him umpteen times it's not good to message people these late re work but apparently it's the done thing. And I know too many average people and it's why I don't understand. People like him, people who have 'made it', they know what must be done. Personally I think he left as to escape the baby crying without feeling guilty. When he's home and baby cries, he does try and help but I think he preempted the tears and rushed out so he could work uninterrupted under the guise of 'a run' as he knows I won't argue when it comes to health however late the activity is taking place. Our hours are upside down, with me breastfeeding and he working at odd times.

OP you write so eloquently and understand him so well. He sounds utterly exhausting and sadly a boastful knobhead with no self awareness of his constant need for validation through work and he's checking out of your family life. If you wrote him a letter describing how his behaviour is affecting your feelings for him, would he take it on board and have therapy to help him understand and try change behaviours? If he's working so hard 24/7 he's risking not only burnout and his health but his family as well. It's depressing and irritating being with someone so boastful and needy (we have a family member like this and we avoid zoomcalls with him as its all about him!)

This all sounds horribly familiar. My first baby arrived in 2015 followed swiftly by DH working insane hours and me getting post natal depression. It was awful and I nearly left any number of times.

A few thoughts that have helped me - I think my dh’s response to us having a baby was heaping a huge amount of pressure on himself to provide for me and the baby. It slackened off quite a bit when I went back to work. Also, my pnd manifested as a lot of withdrawal but also anger. I was sick but that doesn’t mean I was easy to be around either so I can understand why he threw himself into work a bit.

I also am someone who needs praise and validation through work. Being a parent is bloody thankless a lot of the time and I confess that going back to work and getting promoted, told I was doing a great job etc. lifted me up no end. I have issues with that sort of thing as growing up there was a lot of pressure on me to be ‘the good one’ but I also think that it is just human nature.

I don’t mean to belittle what you are going through at all - as I said, I had an awful time. But I do now have a bit more perspective on it.

Been following your thread OP. I think you said you’ve suggested to him that he sees a therapist but have you suggested couples therapy? It strikes me that when you try to talk to him, he hears something different to what you’re saying. A supportive environment to help you reach him might be quite helpful. The situation sounds untenable and frustrating, and it seems a real shame if the relationship is spiralling/plummeting when there does seem to be love and also that his problems seem to come from him being very vulnerable/damaged deep down. That’s not to excuse him or say you should put up with it. Just if I was you, I’d be looking for ways to get him to listen, for you to be able to ask for what you need- to help you both communicate.

as @Scratchyback says you have a Very Important Job (the most important EVER) with long hours and sleepless nights.
I've mainly only read your posts so sorry if it's already been said but is it that he realises he's not the centre of the universe anymore? his world has been turned upside down and he evidently is not adjusting well, either to his perceived role (cf. walk in park conversation) or on a more intimate level in terms of how you relate to each other.

I think for many men the reason they work is to be able to spend nice stress free time with their kids in a big enough house, with enough to eat, trying to give the kids an interesting childhood and a secure future. Often the couple has agreed the wife is the primary caregiver.
for others possibly like your dh, sounds as if he's trying trying carve out his identity as amazing diamond trailblazer guy. Family and kids seem at odds with this 'mad scientist' approach- hence he is going through a massive identity crisis and running for the hills emotionally.

I wonder how he can re-adust his entire stencil-for-life, parental expectations etc? if you still think the non-twat is in there somewhere that is.
I think you mentioned a holiday, maybe taking time, writing to him, only you know how best to approach this.

He has 101 creative reasons for avoiding parenting, doesn’t he ?

@sunflowersandbuttercups

How do you tolerate it? Genuinely - he'd drive me insane.

I have very limited sympathy for people who complain or attention seek all the time, I'm afraid.

I really don't know. I think it was a type of conditioning. He wasn't always this bad. The good had a tendency to outweigh the bad but my issue with him now has intensified as we have had a baby and even the baby is becoming a tool for him to showcase how hectic his life is. He loves his baby (and he does) but my god, he's doing it all. Everyone needs him. The sheer magnitude of our needs are weighing him down. A few days ago I mentioned perhaps it's not our needs so much but rather he keeps catching up, freeing time, only to till it again with more and more.

@Stovetopespresso

as *@Scratchyback* says you have a Very Important Job (the most important EVER) with long hours and sleepless nights. I've mainly only read your posts so sorry if it's already been said but is it that he realises he's not the centre of the universe anymore? his world has been turned upside down and he evidently is not adjusting well, either to his perceived role (cf. walk in park conversation) or on a more intimate level in terms of how you relate to each other.

I think for many men the reason they work is to be able to spend nice stress free time with their kids in a big enough house, with enough to eat, trying to give the kids an interesting childhood and a secure future. Often the couple has agreed the wife is the primary caregiver.
for others possibly like your dh, sounds as if he's trying trying carve out his identity as amazing diamond trailblazer guy. Family and kids seem at odds with this 'mad scientist' approach- hence he is going through a massive identity crisis and running for the hills emotionally.

I wonder how he can re-adust his entire stencil-for-life, parental expectations etc? if you still think the non-twat is in there somewhere that is.
I think you mentioned a holiday, maybe taking time, writing to him, only you know how best to approach this.

Thank you. I do think the non-twat is still somewhere there. Last I saw him was when we contracted covid together. The first few days he was in a frenzy (I call it withdrawal) but once he was detoxed from the laptop/phone, the man I love re-emerged.

I have spoken to him. When he's relaxed, he can listen more and understands but the second he feels stressed by work, he just shuts down. From the sounds of it, you'd think there is a lifetime achievement award somewhere out there gathering dust waiting for him. I admit, being hormonal and depressed has made me a bit curt. The other day as he was droning on about something yet again going wrong because he wasn't involved, I told him, he does realize he's not tackling climate change? It didn't go down so well. I'm just so frustrated. I have tried the gentle approach but depending on his mood, he either gets incredibly defensive, accuses me of not appreciating him, of not supporting him, of not 'getting it' because I don't know other people who had to really throw their weight behind 'it' (whatever the f 'it' is). Insert lecture on how Europeans 'like me' just don't 'get it' and are constantly on holiday and that's what I know so what do I really know??? Interestingly enough, we are going on a one week break together but he's made sure to let me know he'll have to 'tackle some issues' while we are away. Nothing crazy. Just six hours a day or so. He'll try to 'make room' on the weekend but he cannot 'promise anything.'

I know most of my posts are negative but there is positive too. When he stops panicking, he's wonderful. Still a bit of a cringe-master, but who doesn't have their issues? I know I have my own struggles. I guess I just wished he'd put down his defenses and not see work as the be and end all. We cannot discuss on any level what he can do to improve his timings without him practically frothing at the mouth accusing me of 'attacking' him or assuming I know better. I'll try and counter by saying I just miss him. I miss us and the baby needs more of him. A consistent him versus hours stolen here and there. He needs to put us into his daily schedule, treat time with us as vital as his many 'urgent' meetings. I say all this because one way or another he feels the need to smack down the point that he DOES make time for the baby because he has NO LIFE outside of us and work. Well, I never fking asked him to do that. It was his choice to have no life outside work. Not mine. And he likes it. His counter for many things is...DW, it's not like I'm wasting my time doing nothing, I'm working, this isn't fun for me. Can't you see how much I'm struggling?

About couples therapy. We went twice prior to my getting pregnant but even so, he has a way of twisting my words and making it appear as if I'm asking something unfathomable. I was simply asking for more time. He'll always apologize after losing his temper (raising his voice) but inevitably the cycle repeats. He's now asking we return to couples therapy but with covid and all, last thing I need him is he trying to 'win' yet again but matching the therapist hit for hit and convincing them that it is I, the non-working wife who he provides for that is simply not getting it. I'm struggling with my own depression and fear it might open a Pandora's box that is too momentous for me to handle right now.

I cannot recall who mentioned it but I do think he is unwell on some level. He's not the stereotypical workaholic father in that when he's with the baby, he enjoys it immensely but you can almost feel the room shift in tone as the minutes progress. It's as if a voice is telling him that he cannot enjoy himself and he needs to be elsewhere. Weirdly, a month ago, he mentioned the happiest he had been in a while was when we went to a retreat pre-covid. It was a week of being in a cabin in the woods, no phones, no laptops. I took this as a good sign and said, hey maybe this means a simpler life would suit us. Maybe it was okay to admit he didn't want to lead a company. Naturally this only led to him sputtering in horror, telling me I don't get it!! I just don't get it. He doesn't want to be simple, he doesn't want to be regular.

Okay then. Back to the grind it is. Back to the momentous journey that is tearing us apart.

He's just obnoxious, op. Sorry.
All this "you'll never see it the way I do because you're just average" is not workaholic stuff, it's demeaning I'm just intrinsically better than you stuff.
He's a disrespectful dickhead with a radically inflated sense of his own importance. Working fewer hours won't change that.

Just realized how much I'm writing. Thank you for everyone who actually read and responded to my nonsensical rantings. I don't have anyone in real life who understands. Furthermore, I have no interest in tearing him down even though I'm doing a lot of it. I'm just beyond tired. Months of not sleeping more than three hours at a time aren't helping either.