Running out of ways to congratulate my husband

[AdifferentGoat]

My husband is doing quite well in his job. He's always been driven and rather disciplined. I have struggled massively as to get my act together due to lingering depression. I'm actively working on this. To cut a long story short, he is forever talking about his achievements, sending whatsapp messages about articles that pertain to his field, using most opportunities as to inspire discussions that draw the discussion back to him... I could go on and on.
He's upset because I don't understand how busy he is. I get it. He's very busy and important but I miss the man I once knew. I miss him. I'm not enjoying being married to a walking well-aligned resume. The other day he was a bit off and I asked him what was wrong. With a sigh, he stated he was hurt that a colleague of his did not congratulate him on something. Am I being unreasonable to think maybe my husband is lost in the great abyss that is his unending need to be validated? Naturally there is more to him but I'm struggling with this issue and it's tainting my perception of him 😔

Are you in a Brit in the US OP? That would explain a lot.

@theleafandnotthetree

OP your husband sounds exactly like a woman I know who runs her own business. She does fool some of the people some of the time and of course her clients are delighted with the extent to which she 'goes the extra mile'. Meanwhile, she regards most things other than the bare minimum to do with her children to be an imposition on her BIJ or the owntime needed to recover from the BIJ. She seems to take no great pleasure or joy from them or from family life and like I suspect with your husband, had the husband and children because that's what you do, that's the box you tick rather because she genuinely wanted all that goes along with it. It's possibly more unusual in women and I judge her no more harshly than I would a man/husband/father. Everything looks good - big house, big car, designer clothes - and I genuinely think her shallow approach to family life means that for her, it IS good. To my mind, she is not setting herself up for a balnced and enjoyable middle and old age but when challenged she is extremely defensive and of course claims that no one appreciates how she is doing all this for her family, how hard working she is, etc. I see no evidence that she will ever having an epiphany and there have certainly been moments of crisis where she might have done. She is right and justified, everyone else is lazy, ungrateful, don't understand how unique her skills are etc. I suppose the point is that, without wanting to sound gloomy, that people of this type are not likely to change. If they were well balanced people with healthy boundaries and enthusiasm for family life (or any kind of a life outside work), they would probably never get themselves into these patterns in the first place

I may have married her brother This sounds exactly like the person my husband has become. A very dull version of Jekyll and Hyde. One will bore you to no end with his self importance and expect you to thank him for spending time with you and one is actually someone you want to spend time. Sadly the latter is fading fast. Maybe we can set the two up. The mutual gratification of being with someone who 'gets the sacrifice' might be either a match made in heaven. That or one of them would be quickly buried under the makeshift office

Depression is awful and it’s hard if you’re coming out of that place.

Keep going, do you get any time together as a family?

What’s it like when you do

Well the woman I described is single - her husband had the absolute cheek to leave her - but unless your husband is also gorgeous and willing to treat her (lavishly) as she sees herself deserving of, he probably wouldn't get far. I think there's only room for one ego (or actually, set of insecurities) that size in one house. I never quite know with her whether she genuinely believes she is as fantastic, indispensable, etc as she claims, (is a true narcassist in other words) or whether she is actually protesting too much and desperately trying to cover for the fact that she knows that she is at most a solid, competent, perfectly worthwhile but perfectly ordinary woman (which is fine but she doesn't think so).

OP, at least you have kept your sense of humour and that is absolutely vital wherever the future takes you. That's the other thing about these types, they usually have absolutely zero sense of humour about themselves and tend to take themselves terribly seriously. Which I actually think is very corrosive to our 'liking' of our spouses, whatever about love. We should take our work seriously but never ourselves.

Although there were a number of reasons for it, one of the reasons I seperated from my ex-husband is because he was a work bore, carried it as this terrible burden which no one could understand, over-stated his own contribution, was quite mean about that of others. And yes, gave me the strong impression that it was all very well for the likes of me to whitter on about work life balance and family time, I had the luxury of doing so while men like him in Big Important Jobs carried the burdens of responsibility which I simply couldn't possibly understand . It really grinded my gears. I remember trying to have conversations with him about the long term future, what kind of life we might have, what adventures, etc etc and his deadening response was usually something along the lines of 'I'm just trying to get through this week'. Everyone has bad phases and lulls in enthusiasm for life, and of course I would have had every sympathy if he was genuinely depressed but this was moreso a drama queenish response and dig at me than reflective of anything like that

@purpletrees16

I’m a bit like this but my DH is too. Try not to complain but will work till 2am for the validation of going above and beyond. Also take exams/courses to feel that buzz.

It’s how your whole life is structured until c.25 if you are that way inclined like the poster above has said. Exams after exam after exam.

I do have other things going than work but I was brought up to value work (rather than money) and achievements brought through effort and struggle with things that have a less structured reward pathway.

He probably isn’t looking for the validation from you though - I suggest doing another evening qualification or course - perhaps together? Is he scientifically interested - how about one on child development? He can channel parenting into his world view without changing himself.

With all due respect, your attitude and that of your husband and the OPs husband would be considered by most to be on one end of a spectrum of workaholism and I really dont see why the OP should stretch herself out to meet him there. Especially with the side orders of condescension he's serving along with the main dish of being obsessed with his work, his validation from others etc. I would be extremely wary of turning parenting into another thing he has to compete and win at, that'd be asking for a whole pile more trouble and this time with a child as the thing to be obsessed about. My ex-husband is a bit of a performative parent - as well as work bore - and is a bit try-hard with it. Luckliy they are pretty sensible kids, love their dad but find some of this plans a bit much and tend to roll their eyes a bit. In a nice way, they know he means well but he could do with calming the fuck down

My BIL was a workaholic a bit like this. He completely checked out of family life (I remember on a visit to my parents abroad my mum actually threw his phone out of the window). It was about his highflying job and what a great boss he was. My DSis came close to divorcing him but thankfully he got made redundant and is now the bloke we all love again, with a great work/life balance. Close run thing tho...

I suggest doing another evening qualification or course - perhaps together?

Did you miss the bit where she mentions she’s up half the night with the baby? And he’s up till 2am with (make)work? And your solution is an evening course?

To be honest I think I did misread the post. I’ve requested deletion

@minipie

I suggest doing another evening qualification or course - perhaps together?

Did you miss the bit where she mentions she’s up half the night with the baby? And he’s up till 2am with (make)work? And your solution is an evening course?

The solution is for him to cop the fuck on. Lots of people do multiple postgraduate degrees and work in absorbing jobs without requiring a climate of permanent admiration, answering emails at 2 am because the world will end if they don’t, or appearing to genuinely believe they’re irreplaceable.

@amymel2016 there is a third explanation: his manager might have unreasonable expectations regarding one person’s workload...

[quote Notjustanymum]@amymel2016 there is a third explanation: his manager might have unreasonable expectations regarding one person’s workload...[/quote]
Does he not own the company?

@riverrunner

OP, have you considered writing while you're on maternity leave? You write well, and are incisive and funny.

There's something about all this that doesn't ring true to me, though. I'm not in the business world, but DH is the comparatively new CEO of a big organisation objectively, he's very successful, especially when you take into account that he's (we both are) from an extremely poor background, and a complete 'misfit' in social class terms with the level he works at and in his field in general and inevitably, as he's WFH, I hear a lot of his meetings and phonecalls these days, when I am also WFH.

No one, and I mean absolutely no one, ever sits around praising anyone. I would be surprised if anyone has ever told him he's 'wonderful', even once, in a professional context, whether they're the people who hired him, the board, the headhunters, his colleagues, his PA etc. If he behaved the way you say your DH is, with all the boasting and need for continual validation and compliments, he'd be a laughing stock in his industry. As he would if he said he was regularly working till 2 am -- he'd be viewed as unable to cope and inefficient by his peers.

Don't get me wrong, DH isn't in a 9-5 job either, but he recognises he can't let his job encroach on my life, or DS's.

I recognise the busy-ness and the stress, sure, but I don't think that kind of self-validating, obsessive behaviour is normal at all, unless your DH's job is something that requires continual self-promotion, like some kind of influencer! What are these 'odds' he believes are against him?

Thank you so much. I have never considered writing. Very kind you would say this. I've been stuck in my own head trying to make sense of my situation.

Re-reading your words, I'm starting to think that he might be fishing for these compliments. He has a tendency to seek approval and usually it's his subordinates who are complimenting him (or so he says). Often the reason he will even bring it up is I'll say something like : DH I don't understand why it's necessary for the team to have meetings during the weekend. Surely if it's not an emergency people can get on with their lives. He will inevitably read that as me critizing his management skills and state that his accountant or someone said that he was doing so well and is beyond excited to be on this 'journey with him'. My expression at this point is mainly . The other day we were supposed to take our daughter to the park to play but he had a moment of panic, stated he had a call but didn't want to take it but he had to take it but he didn't know what to do... I simply asked: DH I don't understand the point of a team if you are involved in every facet of the (small) company? Naturally this didn't sit well and I was forced to listen to a ten minutes speech re how he's delegating so efficiently but that it'll take some time for the new recruits to get their heads straight (undercover language for 'perform at his level') His standards are impossibly high. The board adore him for what he does for them financially but I think most recognize he's a bit of a lose cannon. In his head, he believes that everyone is marching alongside him on this epic journey (to nowhere ) I keep telling him that he doesn't have to keep bending over backwards or seeking the approval of so many people. That who he is is sufficient. That when I met him, I liked him for him and not what he would one day potentially do. That man seems near lost to me.

Like you and your DH, he too comes from a poor background but one also fraught with family drama. His mother was a runaway and left him when he was three. To his credit, his father raised him but was involved with several women and didn't have much time for him. I think DH lives in fear of being 'exposed' for who he really is or rather losing everything and being forced to go back to his roots. Considering his background, I'd think he would have retained some form of humbleness. When it comes to money expenditure, he's quite careful/frugal (this makes a lot of sense to me) but the good thing is he's generous when it comes to myself and the baby. I'm not much of a spender so money hasn't been a point of contention between us. However what is is his inability to swift off.

At the root of it all, I really think it's imposter syndrome. I had to practically hide the phone the other day and stop him from posting some obtuse line re 'his journey'. I'm sick of it. Deep inside I know he's insecure. But he refuses or rather doesn't have the time to actively do something about it. Our pasts shape who we are to a degree and I believe in in heart of hearts, he's still the boy seeking approval and that becomes more evident the more 'important' he gets as with the money in the world, the itch is still unsatisfied and off we go again, him 'incredibly busy' searching for something that I know he'll never attain unless he forces himself to introspectively check himself.

The odds against him are: a changing economic climate/pandemic. Essentially the odds everyone else is facing. In fairness, I don't want to diminish his hard work but I resent that I'm forced to navigate around his fragile ego and fear of taking ownership re his personal life.

Anyhoo, thank you very much for your post.

Ooooh, poor you, no wonder you have ended up struggling with your own mental health! Dear God, what you describe is exhausting and so sad, because of the loss of the marriage you thought you would have and the man you loved into this constant work hell. I knew a man like that, he was very dear to me, and I considered a relationship with him, but it was always that things would be better after x, y or z and of course they never were.
I have only read your posts so I am sure you have lots of good advice already. It is good that you have a therapist, and also that you clearly see the problems. I don’t think you should blame yourself because this untenable work situation clearly existed before you became ill and maybe even contributed to it. I remember a therapist once saying to me that we get depressed when we have situations we cannot change. It is hard however to accept that we cannot change some situations (or people). I think it may be helpful to recognise that this is not your fault but also that you cannot change your husband, only how you respond to the situation. I honestly don’t think there is a magic combination of words that will make him see things from your point of view, otherwise you would have found them by now. Honestly, truly, you are probably grieving the man you thought he was and that takes time, but you can also begin to look forward at what you want your life to look like. You have skills and as your baby gets a bit older, you can start to look at your job potential and life beyond this empty marriage.
Can you take the baby to your parents even for a short break to help clear your head? It sounds like you are just stuck in a loop of awfulness with no space to feel better, because you are constantly reminded it is All. About. Him.

@problembottom

My BIL was a workaholic a bit like this. He completely checked out of family life (I remember on a visit to my parents abroad my mum actually threw his phone out of the window). It was about his highflying job and what a great boss he was. My DSis came close to divorcing him but thankfully he got made redundant and is now the bloke we all love again, with a great work/life balance. Close run thing tho...

I think I am where your sister was at. I've starting to entertaining notions of a life without him. Not because I want to but because I feel myself shutting down. His phone makes me so angry. The robotic hum of his voice messages coupled with incredulous chuckles... Words fail me.

I cannot understand how he does not see what an utter bore he has become. I kid you not, he's discuss his 'manic' schedule with the plants if he could.

Good on your mum

How much time have you spent trying to work out why he is like this and how you can change it? What if you put that energy and thoughtfulness into yourself and what you can do? Just even a fraction of it? You would be less drained and exhausted to start with. Honestly, you do deserve some of your energy and thought invested in yourself.

@KatySun

Ooooh, poor you, no wonder you have ended up struggling with your own mental health! Dear God, what you describe is exhausting and so sad, because of the loss of the marriage you thought you would have and the man you loved into this constant work hell. I knew a man like that, he was very dear to me, and I considered a relationship with him, but it was always that things would be better after x, y or z and of course they never were. I have only read your posts so I am sure you have lots of good advice already. It is good that you have a therapist, and also that you clearly see the problems. I don’t think you should blame yourself because this untenable work situation clearly existed before you became ill and maybe even contributed to it. I remember a therapist once saying to me that we get depressed when we have situations we cannot change. It is hard however to accept that we cannot change some situations (or people). I think it may be helpful to recognise that this is not your fault but also that you cannot change your husband, only how you respond to the situation. I honestly don’t think there is a magic combination of words that will make him see things from your point of view, otherwise you would have found them by now. Honestly, truly, you are probably grieving the man you thought he was and that takes time, but you can also begin to look forward at what you want your life to look like. You have skills and as your baby gets a bit older, you can start to look at your job potential and life beyond this empty marriage. Can you take the baby to your parents even for a short break to help clear your head? It sounds like you are just stuck in a loop of awfulness with no space to feel better, because you are constantly reminded it is All. About. Him.

Thank you. Everything you wrote resonates so much. Thank your lucky stars you didn't get involved with the man you mentioned. I have been listening to 'things will get better in the next two weeks' for ages now. It's practically the theme song of my life.

What really hurt was after a particularly hard night with the baby, we were out for a short walk and ran into an acquaintance. After sharing a few laughs re how a newborn changes things, acquaintance went : Having a newborn really tests your ability to cope with minimal sleep. The kind of generic thing someone says to new parents. My magnificent DH took the opportunity to mention how he was already soooo used to sleeplessness having been waking on average at 5 am. In fact this is normal for him. A few hearty chuckles and self indulgent head shrugs followed. The acquaintance seemed rather confused and I, silently ruing the day I married the idiot. The tension must have been palpable because he then went on to say that I was doing 'such a great job' and really supporting him because I 'really understand the pressure' he is under. It made me feel so small. Everyone and their pet dog has heard one time or another re his incredibly busy schedule. Was it so necessary to use a casual conversation about our baby as yet another opportunity to drill home how 'crazy' things are for him but one day 'it will be worth it'.

His tombstone will dotted with buzzwords if this attitude keeps up.

Typing all this makes it even more ludicrous. I never thought this would be my life.

He doesn’t sound anything like the large handful of business owners and very successful professionals owners I know.

He sounds more like the stories I’ve read of fanatical MLMers. He is not only destroying his family life, he will be damaging his own reputation. This constant eliciting of praise and validation is very poor in a boss and scheduling meetings at a weekend is appalling. It happens in corporate law and finance towards deadlines, but it never happens in our business, and a number of employees are on six figure incomes.

He sounds unwell to me. Is his business really very successful?

Thanks for filling us in about you. I get a better sense of who you - it feels like you have lost that. I wonder if this relationship is partly the cause of the depression.

There seems to be room for only one person in this relationship - it’s overwhelmingly about him - he is the entire focus and the determinant of both your lives. You are essentially a satellite whose sunlight is eclipsed by the big planetary ego of your DH - you can only subsist in his reflected glory alone.

Realistically, I don’t know how long you can go on being starved of light, space and attention. You’re on you own, but it’s actually worse than being alone as at least in that scenario you have your own life. This basically just living as a bit part on the edge of someone else’s.

What really hurt was after a particularly hard night with the baby, we were out for a short walk and ran into an acquaintance. After sharing a few laughs re how a newborn changes things, acquaintance went : Having a newborn really tests your ability to cope with minimal sleep. The kind of generic thing someone says to new parents. My magnificent DH took the opportunity to mention how he was already soooo used to sleeplessness having been waking on average at 5 am. In fact this is normal for him. A few hearty chuckles and self indulgent head shrugs followed.

Did you say anything to him afterwards OP? Because this is honestly appalling behaviour and what's more, your acquaintance will have thought he was a right twat. I wonder if he is so blinded that he thought they were admiring him when actually they were thinking he was a complete knobber.

I feel for you OP. My husband has a job that's been ramped up to a thousand for several months now due to the elections in Scotland on May 6th. If the party he works for loses any seats, he'll lose his job, and to be honest, I think I'll be ok with that!

@KatySun

How much time have you spent trying to work out why he is like this and how you can change it? What if you put that energy and thoughtfulness into yourself and what you can do? Just even a fraction of it? You would be less drained and exhausted to start with. Honestly, you do deserve some of your energy and thought invested in yourself.

This.

Yes. We are based in the US. Have been here the past ten years or so. I'm not American though. Might that change things? The culture here is rather different from Europe. However even so, I find him a bit of an extreme these days. We spoke about our futures and he said he wants greater balance... One day.

He just left for a run. It's Saturday and his day is 'jam-packed'. The entire team is 'racing against the clock'. Apparently a storm is brewing somewhere out there...

Are there any buzzwords/phrases I have missed?? He is in danger of recycling his. I think it's be helpful if I provided him with an updated list. It's the least I can do as his doting wife.

I’m sorry, I would divorce him for the use of the cringe-tastic “my journey” expression alone. Next time he uses it say “ Oh I didn’t realise you were in American Idol, no wonder you’re so busy with that on top of work!”