Friend who had IVF is an anti-vaxxer

[Laughingstock91]

Aibu here?

My friend who has not long ago had IVF doesn’t want the vaccine because she doesn’t want to ‘put chemicals’ into her body yet she’s been pumped full of hormones and drugs during IVF.

Aibu to really really not understand her position. It makes me think of anyone from the 90’s who did pills (ecstasy) saying the same thing. It’s an utterly bonkers view point!

I’m not anti vax, I’ve had mine. But what I would say is that I’d be a lot more comfortable taking ivf than I was the vaccine because the drugs have been around for ages and the medical community has a fairly decent idea of the side effects. This vaccine is very new, as is the disease, we don’t even know how long immunisers from it, those of us vaccinated, are in effect, taking part in a vast clinical trial. So she’s not unreasonable being anti Covid vax
Regarding drugs, anyone who took them knew they’d be cut with rubbish and knew the risks. We still don’t know the full risks or benefits of the Covid jab.
The government refusal to address the genuine concerns of some by just repeating “vaccines are safe” like a stuck record, isn’t helping people’s confidence. Answers or admitting they just don’t know would though.
No medical procedure or drug is safe, but at least with most of them the full side effects and benefits are known, unlike the vaccine currently.

I completely see the hypocrisy. Trust science enough to help make your family, but not to keep that family safe from debilitating and life-threatening diseases? Ridiculous.

@ClarkeGriffin

Do you see a contradiction though in the fact the friend is happy to use science on herself to get kids, but not use science on her kids to protect them from diseases that could kill them? They haven't had any childhood vaccinations

Yes, this is my exact point far more eloquently put than I have!

@thatonehasalittlecar yes, exactly!

Basic understanding lapse op and you’re making yourself sound ridiculous. You sound very patronising. I had ivf and am not antivax.

As for the vote, I imagine judging by the replies on this thread, people are voting on the antivax stance rather than the ivf element.

Well the obvious thing then is to take to the internet to complain. Why not talk to her personally? It’s her body and her choice.

@TheKeatingFive

Do you see a contradiction though in the fact the friend is happy to use science on herself to get kids, but not use science on her kids to protect them from diseases that could kill them?

I know this isn’t aimed at me, but to answer, not really.

Her kids are largely protected from these diseases by herd immunity. If they were an actual threat to them, she may behave differently.

Well not really. Just look for outbreaks in measles in the UK in recent years. Plus it's to protect those who can't get the vaccines, if everyone had your attitude, there would be no herd immunity. Hence the outbreaks..

Surely consenting to one drug doesn't mean consenting to them all?

Everyone is judging everyone else these days.

@GappyValley

But I see the OP being nasty and a bit thick to zone in IVF in this case

She is highlighting bigger gaps in her own knowledge than in her friends

Yesh I get that, it hasn't been worded well and I think op understands that now. But if you look at it from that view and ignore covid, you see the point. This friend is being highly contradictive.

The science of injecting herself logic is completely flawed. We use science every day to eat balanced food and get our 5 a day. People trust science every time they eat a readymade meal. We trust science every time we use fuel our cars. Doesn’t mean we should agree to every aspect of science and vaccinate our children or ourselves.

I don’t agree with antivax. But I do agree with the right of choice.

@GoLightlyontheEarth I hate to break it to you but it’s actually what mumsnet is for. People complaining about people and discussing stuff. In every thread.

Well not really. Just look for outbreaks in measles in the UK in recent years.

I don’t know a single child who’s had measles in the last 20 years. It may be growing, but it’s still not very widespread. Out of sight out of mind and all that.

Plus it's to protect those who can't get the vaccines, if everyone had your attitude, there would be no herd immunity.

I never said it was ‘my’ attitude. I’m very pro vax. I was answering the question you posed, the motivations of the person in question don’t strike me as difficult to figure out.

Considering you aren't meant to have the vaccine if pregnant, then I woukdnt have it if I was undergoing treatment to get pregnant. No way to nnow how all those drugs would mix together its much more risky.

I delayed mine due to breastfeeding as its again untested and not given to young kids. The guidance only changed for breastfeeding women due to pressure pit on the companies, they never recommended it and said it should be avoided.

You have to consider all circumstances and what is and isn't tested here. I'm all for the vaccine and will get one as soon as I am safely able, but I woukdnt be putting my hopeful unborn child or my little one at risk for my own safety.

I do think it’s unreasonable because I hate anxi-vaxxers. However, I ticked YABU because I still don’t think having IVF really bears much of a relation. Different drugs.

Lol yeah that is a strange one. Maybe ask her why she had all those ivf medications/ horomones injected etc but objects to a vaccine.

My ex who was a serious alcoholic and habitual cocaine user would refuse to take paracetamol if he was under the weather because he didn't like taking medicine

It's her choice regarding the vaccine, but her reasoning makes her seem ridiculous. Why is she even telling anyone? I feel such things should be private

The other thing about the whole 'it's a contradiction' argument - leaving aside the fact that people do contradictory things all the time anyway - is that there's a huge amount of woo-woo 'science' and alternative stuff that circulates around online regarding fertility. (Pineapple cores, I'm looking at you.) It's possible, if you work hard at it, to approach fertility treatment absolutely scientifically, delve into relevant peer-reviewed research and discount all of that stuff, but frankly it's fairly hard to keep it altogether at bay. Many, many people undergoing IVF will take additional supplements, or have acupuncture, or alter their diet, and so on, because of recommendations they've read online rather than because there's absolute scientific proof for doing so. The online recommendations will very often be couched as scientifically-backed, and it can be very difficult to genuinely assess what's helpful and what isn't, and to what extent the evidence for any particular intervention is sound or not. And on top of that, clinics often bolt on all sorts of additional extras, for which the evidence is also often shaky. Imagine paying thousands for IVF and then reading a newspaper expose saying that much of what you paid for wasn't really an evidence-based treatment anyway. As a whole, the experience is not one that necessarily helps you to feel that conventional medicine has the answers.

I personally am very, very much in favour of vaccination, to be clear. But if you'd gone through all of what I'm talking about above, then no, I don't think it's as contradictory as all that to subsequently also get your information about other health-related issues from online communities, or to question whether science always has the answers

@Laughingstock91

Some of the views on here are batshit!

So it’s not ok for calling someone out on their bonkers anti vaxx views after a year of a pandemic that’s changed life forever, killed 150k people in the uk when the vaccines give us a route back to normal life.

Merely mention IVF and everyone goes mad and suddenly it’s your right to choose if you have a vaccine etc.

Utterly bonkers 🤯

I think it’s because your op reads as though because she’s had ivf she should have the vaccine because she obviously doesn’t care about chemicals in her body 🤷🏻‍♀️

FWIW I’ve had ivf. I’m worried about having had one round, and am not on birth control as I don’t want to mess around with more artificial hormones. I’m considerably more aware of the effects they can have, and frankly I’ve had enough poking and prodding to last a lifetime and found ivf to be traumatic. I’m unsure of having the vaccine, but will probably have it when I’m offered it for the greater good but I really don’t want it in my body.

I’m not an anti vaxxer, my kids have had all their jabs etc I’m just unsure as it’s so new and any potentional long term effects aren’t known.

@Laughingstock91 but that wasn't what your op is about. Your post was criticising your friends choice of what to put in her body and comparing ivf to the covid vaccination. Now it's turned into your friend's doesn't vaccinate her children at all and it affects everyone.
I think your not being entirely truthful with how your portraying your friend. As you keep adding bits as the thread goes along.
Like other pp you cannot compare ivf to a vaccination that was created in less than a year that we know very little about. Your friend has every right to feel how she does and shouldn't have a 'friend' creating a post about her judging her. You sound controlling of other peoples thoughts, opinions and choices. Someone who is way to invested in other peoples lives.
Find a hobby.

[quote Laughingstock91]@GoLightlyontheEarth I hate to break it to you but it’s actually what mumsnet is for. People complaining about people and discussing stuff. In every thread.[/quote]
But you're coming off as nasty with no redeeming features so far

Anyone who refuses the vaccine on the grounds that they don’t want to ‘put chemicals’ in their body after putting chemicals in their body for IVF is either stupid / uninformed / a hypocrite.

Putting aside (not that we should) that everything is made up of chemicals, synthetic hormones are definitely chemicals. So are natural hormones. Yeah, we can’t put aside that everything is chemical.

If she has other reasons for refusing the vax, she’s still probably uninformed, but I might take them a little more seriously.

But then when you add the fact none of her kids have had their childhood vaccinations, we’re right back with stupid again.

I’m sure she was a lot of fun to go raving with, but I don’t think I could be friends with an anti-vaxxer.

I have 2 separate family members who are both anti covid vac. They’re both recreational drug taking losers. Both useless absent fathers to their kids. I think they like the idea of being anti establishment. The same establishment that’s feed and clothed their children when they’ve gone off to drugs at a party.

I’m about to have a second round of ivf. I’m aware from the first time of the ivf fear factor. Ivf is expensive and not very likely to work and I have to live with niggles for ever about maybe it would have worked/ wouldn’t have miscarried if I did x or didn’t do y. It’s not very rational but it is what happens for me.

With all the concern around the vaccines in the media I can fully appreciate the niggles caused by having the vaccine during ivf.

In fact I’ve just had the vaccine. I had it because my role is changing at work and I need to visit people in their homes. I did it to help keep them safe.

If this round of ivf doesn’t work I’m going to be carrying the did the vaccine have an impact niggles for years.

If she has a low risk from COVID , low risk of transmission then I can see why she might not be keen at present.

Ivf doesn’t lead to rational use of science.there’s a whole industry encouraging supplements, special diets, avoiding mainstream toiletries. It’s hard to pick out what important from what’s not.

Your friend has my sympathy OP, she probably not an anti vaccine person, just a stressed out woman trying to make a baby.

"I do agree with you that it's a little off not to vaccinate children"

A little off? Understatement of the century