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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Friend who had IVF is an anti-vaxxer

192 replies

Laughingstock91 · 04/04/2021 06:07

Aibu here?

My friend who has not long ago had IVF doesn’t want the vaccine because she doesn’t want to ‘put chemicals’ into her body yet she’s been pumped full of hormones and drugs during IVF.

Aibu to really really not understand her position. It makes me think of anyone from the 90’s who did pills (ecstasy) saying the same thing. It’s an utterly bonkers view point!

OP posts:
Trees123456789 · 04/04/2021 08:16

We all have the right to choose what is best for our own body and our own health, and not be called names for those choices - whatever that decision may be. Just because a person has a different view doesn't mean we should resort to name calling.

Perhaps your friend felt the medical intervention for IVF was absolutely necessary due to conception problems - but if she is in a younger age group that has a very minimal risk from covid, she doesn't feel that the vaccine / medical intervention is correct for her at this moment?

We need to continue to respect the My body, My choice principal, or we will all lose out in the long term.

UsedUpUsername · 04/04/2021 08:17

@Laughingstock91

Aibu here?

My friend who has not long ago had IVF doesn’t want the vaccine because she doesn’t want to ‘put chemicals’ into her body yet she’s been pumped full of hormones and drugs during IVF.

Aibu to really really not understand her position. It makes me think of anyone from the 90’s who did pills (ecstasy) saying the same thing. It’s an utterly bonkers view point!

She obviously wants a baby and doesn’t care about COVID. Why do you care?
Persipan · 04/04/2021 08:17

[quote Laughingstock91]@GappyValley because as I said in my OP, IVF involves being injected with synthetic drugs. There really is no difference as it’s still putting ‘stuff’ in your body, which is my friends issue.[/quote]
I've had IVF. Maaaaaaany rounds of IVF. Are you seriously saying that means I should be up for indiscriminately putting any and all kinds of 'stuff' into my body, forevermore, because I've previously put different kinds of 'stuff' in there? Do I not get to consent to what happens to my own body now?

Do I, in all seriousness, need to break out the 'cup of tea' consent blurb here?

As it happens, I am perfectly happy to have the vaccine when I'm able, and I agree that the conspiracy stuff circulating about it is patent nonsense. But unless you actually, genuinely think that my having previously consented to having something put in my body by choice automatically means I'm up for it, anytime, with whatever anyone wants to shove in there, then you're being unreasonable. (And if you do think that, then guess what? You're being unreasonable!)

GappyValley · 04/04/2021 08:18

[quote Laughingstock91]@GappyValley but it’s still the point isn’t it? My friend has now decided to act like a purist about her body because she’s an anti- vaxxer. It’s still hypocrisy. IVF is still synthetic hormones.[/quote]
They are chemically identical to what her body is producing every single month. Given is slightly higher quantities than her body produces

You’re making out like she has been ingesting bleach.

Your first post made you look a bit ignorant, but your subsequent doubling down and refusal to accept you’re making a stupid point is just making you look really arrogant

ClarkeGriffin · 04/04/2021 08:19

But this person isn't just rejecting the covid vaccine from the sounds of it. She is rejecting all vaccines for her kids too.

By now, they should have had several, rota virus, meningitis, flu, mmr etc. They've had none of these. Do you all still think that is right and OK, and not at all in contradiction with her being happy to use science for herself, but not her kids? None of those vaccines are new and untested, and the majority of you will have gotten them for your kids.

Original poster
Laughingstock91 · 04/04/2021 08:21

@GappyValley no I am pointing out her hypocrisy.

As I just said- the moral outrage on here because I dare to mention IVF is mad. But no one who is saying ‘her body her choice’ about the vaccine is showing the same moral outrage about the fact that vaccine programmes run on some sense of social obligation to protect people is bonkers. Utter bonkers in fact.

OP posts:
Garlia · 04/04/2021 08:22

@Laughingstock91

It’s like there is moral outrage on here because I have mentioned one persons IVF as an example but zero moral outrage about thousands dying and someone refusing a vaccine to stop more dying. It’s totally bonkers!
comparing IVF with the Covid vaccine is ridiculous.

judging your friend with such nastiness does not make you come across well. At all.

I will have the vaccine, because it's my choice. A friend of mine won't, because it's his choice. We may not agree but I fully respect we each have rights to make our own individual choice.

You may believe it's a moral duty to have the vaccine but you don't have the right to impose your moral code on anyone else.

Original poster
Laughingstock91 · 04/04/2021 08:22

@ClarkeGriffin exactly!

OP posts:
Original poster
Laughingstock91 · 04/04/2021 08:24

@Garlia but then by not having the vaccine that means that everyone on here saying that is voting for lockdowns and this life ad Infinitum. Ruined lives, ruined economy, chronic mental health issues, kids in and out of school etc.

OP posts:
ClarkeGriffin · 04/04/2021 08:25

Problem is @Laughingstock91 it sounds like you're comparing it to the covid vaccine. People would be more understanding if you had made it clear you're meaning the whole children's vaccine programme that they have missed out on for no reason.

GappyValley · 04/04/2021 08:25

[quote Laughingstock91]@GappyValley no I am pointing out her hypocrisy.

As I just said- the moral outrage on here because I dare to mention IVF is mad. But no one who is saying ‘her body her choice’ about the vaccine is showing the same moral outrage about the fact that vaccine programmes run on some sense of social obligation to protect people is bonkers. Utter bonkers in fact.[/quote]
No, you’re pointing out what a judgmental and ignorant ‘friend’ you are.

There is no more hypocrisy between her stance of IVF vs vaccines than someone being on the pill but refusing a vaccine.

Perhaps you aren’t smart enough to realise you’re doing it, but you’re just broadcasting to everyone on the thread that you don’t really understand what hypocrisy means, you don’t understand what ivf is and you don’t understand medical ethics

If you want to keep doubling down on it, knock yourself out but you’re looking more ridiculous with each post

GlacindaTheTroll · 04/04/2021 08:28

Your first post made you look a bit ignorant, but your subsequent doubling down and refusal to accept you’re making a stupid point is just making you look really arrogant

Have you clocked the voting?

75% agree with OP

Just because you think she's being arrogant does not make you either right or representative

Original poster
Laughingstock91 · 04/04/2021 08:29

@GappyValley so you agree then that my friend is also right not to vaccinate her kids which I have also said?

And stop calling me ignorant too. My friend is refusing to vaccinate herself and her kids on really dubious grounds and putting other people and their kids at risk. On the basis of conspiracy theories and nonsense. And not wanting to pollute her body. Her stance is utterly wrong and misguided.

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 04/04/2021 08:30

I’m not sure why you’re so caught up with the ‘contradiction’.

Humans display contradictory behaviour all the time. We aren’t a logical species.

I don’t think it’s very surprising really. She got something she wanted out of ivf. For most anti vaxxers, there isn’t really a downside. They’re protected by herd immunity.

Covid is a slightly different situation, but if she’s low risk she probably feels she doesn’t have much to fear from the disease itself. She may change her tune if she’s prevented from going on holiday or not able to take certain jobs though.

Botanica · 04/04/2021 08:30

There's no way you could possibly understand her point of view if you've never dealt with long term infertility or IVF.

I find your lack of empathy and understanding disturbing.

When you're longing for a child you make every sacrifice under the sun to try and make it happen.

That glass of wine you take for granted, that cup of coffee, chocolate, can of fizzy drink, food and drink in cans or plastic bottles, using your every day non stick pans, choosing whatever shampoo or toiletries you want without having to consider what BPA, phthalates or parabens might be present... every single thing you consume you are thinking about whether this is going to have a positive or negative effect on my fertility.

Low level inflammation in the body can be a barrier to conceiving, implanting and carrying an embryo. Not surprising she is worried about a vaccine...

You can't possibly understand but at least have the decency not to mock and criticise her choices.

I really hate posts like this. You honestly have no idea what it is like. How wonderful for you to be able to judge her choices from a position of privilege.

WalkinginMemphis2 · 04/04/2021 08:32

You aren’t ‘pumped’ full if drugs when you do IVF 🙄 it’s hormones....some might say it’s no different but in her head it will be. And I agree it is. I’m vehemently anti anti-vaxx but there is a difference to oestrogen or whatever type of hormone she had and the make up of a vaccine.

Also if she’s been through the wringer with infertility she’s probably read a lot of the books I’ve read trying to find an answer and I can see how doing that could lead you down the path of being an anti-vaxxer, lots of the Instagram accounts I followed around infertility and natural living have become incredibly vocally anti-vaxx.

Personally I don’t get it as having been through that my children were the most precious thing in the world the thought of them getting meningitis or measles when they were babies was terrifying. I couldn’t wait for them to have theirs.

DemobHappy · 04/04/2021 08:33

People hold contradictory ideas all the time.

I know people who do shit loads of drugs and booze, but are vegan eco warrior anti vaxxers. People who bang on about the evils of ‘big pharma’ but buy drugs from drug dealers ie. support the drugs trade. My Aunty smokes 20 a day but doesn’t want to ‘put chemicals (the vaccine) in her body’.

Its bonkers and annoying, but there is little point in being judgemental about it. At the bottom of most anti vaxxers’ attitude is fear. They’re scared, even if they dress it up with self righteousness. You can’t be angry with people for being scared.

user1471462428 · 04/04/2021 08:33

I wouldn’t associate with anyone who doesn’t vaccinate their children. You are failing to protect your children if you let them play knowingly with unvaccinated children.

GappyValley · 04/04/2021 08:38

I said in my very first post to you ‘Obviously she is an idiot for being so anti vaxx but I can’t see an obvious contradiction with IVF’

So you don’t read your own thread or try and have a basic understanding of the point you’re trying to make!
Great thread, OP!

MaLarkinn · 04/04/2021 08:39

I don't believe she hasn't vaccinated her children.

This comment only came after another poster said just because she doesn't want the covid vaccine doesnt make her an anti vaxxer. Instead, to give weight to your argument you threw in that she used pills in the 90's.

I hope for your friend's sake this is the end of your friendship.

ClarkeGriffin · 04/04/2021 08:42

@GappyValley

Do you see a contradiction though in the fact the friend is happy to use science on herself to get kids, but not use science on her kids to protect them from diseases that could kill them? They haven't had any childhood vaccinations.

I get it though, op has not worded this thread well. It sounds like it's from a covid standpoint, because this woman not vaccinating her kids won't spread a disease very far because most people are sensible and get all childhood vaccines done when told. The most it affects is her family, and anyone who hasn't had them or can't get them. But that's not a majority still, it's a small amount of people. It's still bad though.

TheKeatingFive · 04/04/2021 08:45

Do you see a contradiction though in the fact the friend is happy to use science on herself to get kids, but not use science on her kids to protect them from diseases that could kill them?

I know this isn’t aimed at me, but to answer, not really.

Her kids are largely protected from these diseases by herd immunity. If they were an actual threat to them, she may behave differently.

Original poster
Laughingstock91 · 04/04/2021 08:46

@MaLarkinn yea whatever 🙄

OP posts:
GappyValley · 04/04/2021 08:48

[quote ClarkeGriffin]@GappyValley

Do you see a contradiction though in the fact the friend is happy to use science on herself to get kids, but not use science on her kids to protect them from diseases that could kill them? They haven't had any childhood vaccinations.

I get it though, op has not worded this thread well. It sounds like it's from a covid standpoint, because this woman not vaccinating her kids won't spread a disease very far because most people are sensible and get all childhood vaccines done when told. The most it affects is her family, and anyone who hasn't had them or can't get them. But that's not a majority still, it's a small amount of people. It's still bad though.[/quote]
I see a contradiction in anyone who is happy to have any sort of medical treatment but is anti vaxx
I see massive contradiction in someone who buys drugs from a street dealer then worries about medically-tested vaccines.

But I see the OP being nasty and a bit thick to zone in IVF in this case

She is highlighting bigger gaps in her own knowledge than in her friends

MaLarkinn · 04/04/2021 08:48

Happy Easter op Easter Smile