To think I could be harming my baby?

[silicageldonoteat]

Long time lurker, occasional poster, name changed for this.

I have a 5 week old baby. After a traumatic delivery my milk was delayed coming in and we ended up readmitted to hospital with weight loss and had to top up with formula.
Since then, I have been breast feeding every 3 hours and topping up with expressed milk or formula if I haven’t managed to express enough.
My little one has only put on 10g in the past few days and is only just back above birthweight. I was hoping that we would be able to move towards EBF but obviously that’s not on the table at the moment. I’m devastated that breastfeeding isn’t working out for us as I’d hoped.
The feed/top up/express cycle is brutal, but I could carry it on if there were light at the end of the tunnel. As it stands, I don’t think there is. I can’t help thinking that my baby would be better off with a mum that wasn’t totally miserable all the time, particularly when trying to breastfeed, who had some time to spend playing/talking/bonding - and that maybe it’s time to stop and switch to full formula. But on the other hand, surely some breast milk is better than none? I feel like whatever I choose is not doing what’s best for them.

@CatherinedeBourgh

Op how is your baby other than gaining slowly? Are they contented and well? Do they sick up a lot?

The reason I ask is because I went through all of this with ds1, thinking it was my supply that was the issue, topping up, you name it. Turns out ds had cmpa and reflux, and once on medication his weight shot up.

The consultant who eventually diagnosed him said that if you can express anything at all after a feed it’s not an issue with your supply, but with your baby. A baby who has experienced pain as a result of feeding just won’t eat as much as they need, and you end up with a problem.

They posset a little bit but not sick particularly, and otherwise seem happy and well. It doesn’t feel like reflux, but I will definitely beat it in kind. Having said that, they sometimes cry during feeds

I will also say that from the first bottle my baby changed. She went from literally crying 23 out of 24 hours and not being able to put down in any kind of crib to happy and able to sleep, satisfied at last. She was just so so hungry.

Oh OP - I usually lurk on here but I've created an account just to reply to you!

I really feel for you. I was in this exact same position with my eldest.

Firstly - ignore the advice from some PP to feed on demand. This is correct for most newborns but not accurate in your situation. You need to keep up the three hourly-thing for now (and feed more often if your baby wants it but not less than three hourly). Once DD started gaining weight we moved to fourly hourly, then to on demand, but it took several weeks and a bit of back and forth.

I mixed fed from five days (which was when the midwife realised DD was losing weight and we went to hospital) until eight weeks, at which point we got back to EBF on demand. She just gradually took more and more breast milk and less and less formula. The last two weeks we were mostly pouring the formula down the sink as she'd already had enough breast milk (I used to offer the formula after a breastfeed) but I was so anxious I kept making it until I was 110% certain she didn't need it! I remember she took barely any formula for about two days so I was on the verge of stopping offering formula, then out of nowhere she had a huge breastfeed followed by a whole bottle of formula so I went back to making up the formula again, only to have to pouring it down the sink again!

I went on to BF until she was 18 months. So it can be done, but you're absolutely right about it being brutal. I had a tonne of support from the community midwife, the nurses and consultant at the hospital, my husband and a local group of volunteers who are breastfeeding champions. Rope in anyone who will be supportive to help you in any way you can.

If you decide to FF that's absolutely fine, but it may be worth preserving for a few more weeks if you think you can. It looks like I'm the third person on here to say they were in your position and got back to EBF at the eight/nine/ten week mark.

There was a nice little silver lining in it all - a lot of my friend's EBF babies wouldn't take formula. But because mine had had it in the first few weeks she would if she was offered it. So I could occasionally leave her with my husband or someone else. It also helped when I went back to work - I had this plan to build up a supply of pumped milk for her to drink before she started nursery but it turned out I was crap at expressing (and I persevered for longer than it took to get her back to EBF and hired a hospital grade pump, but flipping heck I was useless at it!)

I also found, throughout the whole time I breastfed that I needed to eat a LOT of carbs or else my milk supply dropped. The official advice from midwives is to not eat any more food than someone not breastfeeding would need, but that just didn't work for me. I used to devour carbs round the clock.

I also agree with PP about gluing yourself to the bed or sofa for a few days if at all possible to see if you can get just focus on this and get your supply up. I don't think I left the house for the first five weeks of DD's life except to go back to the hospital for three nights when she was first found to have lost weight.

It’s ok to stop breastfeeding if that is going to make you happier OP. This post has reminded me of something I’d read written by a teacher... so I found it on google for you.

she "couldn't tell who crawled first, who walked before one, or spoke in sentences by 15 months," and she had no idea "if they were potty-trained at 18 months or 4 years old."

She couldn't tell who was breastfed or bottle fed, nor could she distinguish which kids "cried it out" when they were babies and which ones had parents who "strapped them to their bodies 24/7."

So what could this teacher discern from looking at the students in her classroom? As she beautifully put it, "I can tell which families value kindness and manners in their home. I can tell when a child feels loved and secure at home (and at school which sadly isn't always everyone's school experience!)"

The teacher went on to say she knew "who has pizza and movie Friday nights and which moms reads in different voices for bedtimes." And she can tell "who has a solid routine at home and who has chores and responsibilities"—because those things do show through in the classroom.

Basically, stopping breastfeeding is not going to impact his life. At all. Let go of the guilt

You're not miserable.
You're doing the best you can understand the current circumstances.
You sound utterly exhausted because you're juggling more than one feeding type.
Contact a lactation consultant and work closely with them to wean off one type of feed (formula/express/breast).
Keep going, look how far you've come.

I’m not saying it is necessarily reflux or cmpa, but if they are not taking all the milk that is there they may have something which is stopping them. If they were gaining really well from the moment you topped up with formula it would feel different, but if you’re topping up and it’s still not working so well it might be worth exploring different possibilities.

You might have to push a lot though. I saw over 10 hcps in 4 months before we got a diagnosis, but it was worth it in the end.

I've not read all the comments, but just wanted to say OP, in case you need to read it: it's ok to stop.

Formula isn't poison. It's a very valid way to feed you baby. It's ok to factor your own needs into your feeding choices.

I switched to formula relatively early with both of mine. Even though it was a conscious decision of mine, while I had the milk and the hormones, I worried whether I was doing the right thing and felt guilty. But, as soon my babies were exclusively bottle fed, I was happy with my decision. And, once they're all a few years old, no one knows how they were fed anyway.

Equally, if perusing breastfeeding is what you really, really want, that's a good choice too. Make the right decision for YOU; it will ultimately be the right decision for your baby too.

OP, my first DC had a tricky start re: feeding.

Initially cup fed by MW in hospital with a lot of BF attempts. Discharged from hospital after about 5 days as I insisted (and she would take a bottle but only with a “fast flow” teat). Then bottle fed every 3 hours but attempt BF first. Bottle wax a mixture of expressed and formula. I expressed every 3 hours. So my day (and nights) went 3am feed baby, 4.30am express, 6 am feed baby, 8.30am express... you get the idea. I do wonder why I was so ducking miserable!!!

It didn’t work.

Now, I look at my healthy happy 10-year-old (who is allowed some junk food / fizzy drinks occasionally), and wonder why I tortured myself for those weeks. It is very sad to go through that, and it isn’t something many people seem to really understand- you can’t just lie on sofa cluster feeding if the baby isn’t actually feeding, and expressing for 30 minutes at a time every 3 hours whilst feeding baby every 3 hours means you never get more than 90 minutes rest. Whilst feeling like you’re “not good enough” and “failing your child”.

Oh op this happened to me when I had dd, difficult birth, she lost 10oz in 10 days and ended up back in hospital. I persevered, put her on the breast for feeds, then pumped every two hours, ate all the oat cookies I could, drank lots of milk. I just didn't have enough breast milk to sustain her. I felt worthless, like I had let my beautiful girl down as I couldn't feed her like so many other mothers could. I persevered for ages, never got enough rest, was constantly tired and drained. I was sad a lot. I wish someone had just said it wasn't going to work out for me and to just formula feed. When I had my ds I tried again but I just don't have enough milk, he went on to a bottle and I was happier.

OP I was in your position with my first. He was born 8lb 1 but left the hospital at 6lb + after five days of struggling to get used to bf. I also had to combi feed. It was absolutely unrelenting at the time. I really really feel for you. But, after a few weeks he 'got it' and we never looked back. I stopped formula feeds when he was about 6 weeks old, he bf til he was 17 mo when he stopped by his own accord. I literally camped out with him for the first couple of months and had him close to me all the time. Even if he was just attached but not feeding, it seemed to help. I will say it turned out for us that he had silent reflux which he was treated for until 13mo.
You are doing everything right OP, go with your instincts and keep going if you choose to. There's no shame in switching to formula feeding if that's what you want, but if you do chose to continue trying, you may well be surprised to find they just click one day too.

OP, you poor, poor thing. I would like to give you a very big hug.

I can't tell you what would be best for you and your baby, but I can tell you that I had a very traumatic delivery with my first (now an adult), and I was desperate to breastfeed. I, too, was expressing, feeding, and making myself increasingly ill and stressed. I was already ill after the birth, and the "failure" to feed compounded it. Plus I was completely exhausted.

As this thread shows, every mother and every baby is different. However, switching to formula was the best decision for me. It totally changed my experience of having a baby.

I didn't even bother with the guilt with subsequent DC.

Oh I should add, I tried fenugreek capsules from amazon and my milk went through the roof (literally at times). I had has a traumatic birth and my milk didn't come in for ages. I also recorded DS crying as your body is known to produce more milk in response to baby crying when expressing for example, so I would play it every so often. It all helped.

Just feed on demand, don't bother looking at clocks, be baby led. Your body will provide as much milk as your baby requires..and BF is a doddle once established.
You will get there! But bottles I was advised make babies ''Lazy'' as it is much easier {but less natural} to drink from a bottle, so was advised to do one or the other.
Best of luck!

There is a saying that a fed baby is a happy baby. At five weeks he has had a very good start with your milk but please bear in mind that formula milk is probably the most tested food there has ever been. You certainly will not be harming your baby by bottle feeding. In the 1960s the fashion was bottle feeding and solids were introduced at a ridiculously early age too. This would mean the majority of babies born around the same time as l was and, now in middle age, we are not an unhealthy or particularly stupid generation as far as I am aware. There is far too much shaming of mothers for not being able, or not wanting to breastfeed.

I got to a similar scenario to you OP. It took a fair while to get the baby back up to it's birthweight.

I thought I would share my story.

What helped me was I got to go to a group with prem babies who were breastfeeding. The women and some were ex nurses who ran that group were non judgemental and fantastic.

I realised I needed to feed feed feed. Every 3 hours was too much of a gap.

So my husband had to support that. The mixed feeding was affecting my supply. My baby didn't cry, I think this might have been because he was under weight and just too tired to even whimper or cry. I also would feed when he got better because I could read his cues, so as soon as he started moving that little mouth I would try feed, so I would not wait for the baby to cry.

I had to try feed I think in clusters and then the baby would go a bit long for sleep - but most of the day it seemed like feeding feeding feeding.
So many days it seemed I was in bed, and just feeding until the weight got up.

I was also taught to tickle feet and stroke the inside of the baby's hand to get the baby to latch. The baby also had to get used to feeding more frequently. I never ever could express, not a drop.

But the baby and breastfeeding it got better. I stopped going to get the baby weighed as at first that causes me some anxiety.

By the way I went back to work FULL TIME at 7.5 months and still could not express but this was when the baby was a bit older obviously, the baby wouldn't take formula at nursery either, but when past six months would have yoghurt, cheese food but never milk and then I would cluster feed in the evening, I never expressed. I never thought I could do it without formula either.

My second baby I never expressed either.

I found that when I embraced cluster feeding from late afternoon to through out the night it kind of worked. But that is just my experience.

I never ever thought it at the time but I miss those cluster feeds.

Good luck whatever you decide and hope you get the support you need.

Also congratulations on your baby.

OP, feeding your baby is bonding, whether bottle or breast. Try not to stress about that. These early weeks are about survival, don’t sweat about playing with the baby etc....

I was in a very simlar situation when my DS was a new born. He lost too much weight in the first week and ended up being readmitted. It took him about 6 weeks to regain all of the wait he lost, felt like forever.

I was bf and expressing/topping up with formula if I couldn't express enough for about 10 weeks. It is brutal and exhausting and if I had a second and ended up in the same situation I think I would switch to formula.

DS eventually managed to work bfing out. He's now 2 and still bfing. I got help from a lactation consultant who told me that DS's palate was high (I think that's what it was) and the only way to fix it was to just wait for him to get bigger and muddle through with with expressing in the interim. It worked for us and eventually he started being able to feed properly. Getting there was gruelling. If you want to continue with bfing, I think speaking to a lactation consultant is worth it if you can afford it. Reassured me that I was going in the right direction.

If you don't want to continue bfing, that's fine too!

Whatever you decide to do is the right choice. Try to be as kind to yourself as possible, the expressing cycle is so so hard and you're doing a great job to have got this far.

Op, I had a similar experience but following Macrosomia and delivery at 37 weeks and jaundice...DS was very sleepy and hard to keep him awake to feed. He didn't gain for ages because he didn't need it (due to the macrosomia) and whilst at the hospital I was advised to give top ups to help flush the jaundice...but that affected my supply and so I was then doing all 3 as you are every 3 hours, 24 hours a day.

DS continued to struggle with his weight and long story short, he had a UTI which can affect their weight, even weeks after being treated. We did for some time manage to EBF eventually. I did have a lot of support at the time, had a feeding specialist in the area come to visit and watch me feed DS, there were regular groups and there's a lot of good resources and help online.

All your baby needs at the moment is to be cleanish, warm, fed and have you nearby (not in that order). You are achieving everyone of those things so they are a lucky child to have you.

I was a breastfeeding zealot when I had D.C. and insisted on feeding them myself for a year, regardless of what the health care professionals said (this was a while ago when breastfeeding wasn't promoted the way it is now) so I agree with your statement that some breast milk is better than none. But I'm older and wiser now and wish I had been gentler on myself. I would suggest that you give it 3 more weeks. I found it took at least 6 weeks for me and D.C. to settle down together and establish good BF patterns. If you aren't in a happy routine of bf and weight gain at 2 months you can make the switch to formula knowing you gave it your best shot and it didn't work for you and your baby.

My children are in their 20s now. I have many friends with D.C. of similar ages and there is no discernible difference in the health/fitness/intelligence/happiness of the children like mine who were exclusively breast fed, those who had formula from birth or those who had mixed feeding.

Your milk supply may be affected if you feel stressed. Make sure you are eating well, take your time to relax when feeding and enjoy the time with your child. I found it easier to express whilst my baby was feeding as it flowed then. I used to feed on one side only and express from the other, then switch.
The national childbirth trust has a brilliant support network and articles to support breastfeeding.
Link
www.nct.org.uk/baby-toddler/feeding/early-days/breastfeeding-support-nct

You’re doing great. Don’t ever think you are not. It’s not easy but you’re doing the best you can.

For me, breastfeeding was so difficult it severely impacted my bonding with my babies. The first I ebf for 6 months, and then continued for just over a year. But the price was so high. For my second I mix fed from 4 months, eventually stopped bf completely at 8 months.

Both children had had terrible problems with many of the issues that breastfeeding is supposed to help avoid, and it absolutely ruined my mental health.

This is all pretty rare I think, and to do we'r me as a person, but all I'm saying is that whatever the statistics say about breastfeeding, you can only manage your own family.

I would advise the full on "do nothing but sit around half naked with the baby on your chest" method for a week, if you can manage it, and if you don't see any improvements, switch to formula.

Honestly, my second baby and I were so bloody happy when I finally put their needs before my guilt, it was incredible.

Just my experience, everyone is different.

I had this with my first-such an almighty deal was made of breastfeeding and the guilt I was supposed to feel if I didnt BF was just ridiculous-I struggled immensely for 6 weeks-before I had a chat with an old friend in another country-who had gone through the same and where she was they didnt have the hang ups on "nipple confusion" and all that "you'll be depriving your baby/allergies/obesity" crap. Short story, I switched to formula-the change was instant in my baby, content, satisfied, sleepy and started to have distinct periods of feedine and sleeping-rather than one long endless cycle ofcrying- feeding-grizzling-minute fractious sleep-repeat...
The effect of this mentally was huge for me. You have done your absolute best and need to look after yourself, mentally. Tiny babies dont need anything other than feeding, love and contact-playing and a mum who's happy....all of this is achieved just as good through formula feeding. FGS get yourself some formula-I promise you life will suddenly start looking a lot better.
Mine are teens now and I can promise you we had no adverse effects people like to promote with formula. Just 2 satisfied, thriving babies and one happy mum. Most of the mums I eventually met at mum and baby groups had similar stories to tell unfortunately.

I would like to add that you should not be disheartened whatever you choose and that not being able to breastfeed one baby does not mean that you will not be able to breastfeed subsequent babies. After a very difficult first week trying to feed my first baby, having also had a difficult birth, I bottle fed. The second was a mixture of breast and bottle for the first three months as he was a very hungry baby, who did not put on weight easily. After starting solids (three months was permissible at that time), there was no further need for bottles and l breast fed until he was nine months old. My last baby knew instinctively what to do and was breast fed for ten months with the occasional bottle. They are all in their twenties now and no-one would know which one was bottle fed and which one was breast fed.

@silicageldonoteat

I had a very similar experience to you with my first, but went on to breast feed all 3 of my children. I learned a lot.

All the conventional NHS/local feeding group advice you often hear re expressing and topping up in that way is a huge problem for the success of breast feeding. The Womanly Art of Breast Feeding from La Leche League is an excellent resource.

For the first 6-8 weeks you just need to sit around cuddling, feeding, cuddling, feeding. Take a quick break for yourself when they settle for a 30 min nap or when someone else changes nappies, if you have someone to do it.

When you do this you allow the complex and communicative relationship between baby and your breasts to develop. Your breasts start to create the watery milk when your baby is thirsty and the thicker fattier milk when baby is hungry (particularly toward the end of the day which helps them stay full and sleep).

When new mothers pump milk, they tend to over produce the watery milk with very low fat content. Baby gets a full stomach, and feels full...but hasn't really had a high calorie intake. So it can seem like they are getting a lot but they don't gain weight.

Feed, feed, feed from your breasts and let things do what they should. Reserve expressing for much later in the breast feeding journey when everything is working as it should.

You can help baby find the fatty milk by not switching breast too often, really letting them drain the breast. An empty feeling breast is usually the one delivering the fattiest milk. Try sticking with one side for 2-3 hours before switching.

But aside from that please remember fed is best and formula isn't poison.

mixed feeding worked well for us. both children. one mixed fed for two and a half years. I found I was able to increase supply later ad long as I fed some milk. meant there was milk on demand if we were out and had run out of bottles or bottles in the middle of the night...