To think I could be harming my baby?

[silicageldonoteat]

Long time lurker, occasional poster, name changed for this.

I have a 5 week old baby. After a traumatic delivery my milk was delayed coming in and we ended up readmitted to hospital with weight loss and had to top up with formula.
Since then, I have been breast feeding every 3 hours and topping up with expressed milk or formula if I haven’t managed to express enough.
My little one has only put on 10g in the past few days and is only just back above birthweight. I was hoping that we would be able to move towards EBF but obviously that’s not on the table at the moment. I’m devastated that breastfeeding isn’t working out for us as I’d hoped.
The feed/top up/express cycle is brutal, but I could carry it on if there were light at the end of the tunnel. As it stands, I don’t think there is. I can’t help thinking that my baby would be better off with a mum that wasn’t totally miserable all the time, particularly when trying to breastfeed, who had some time to spend playing/talking/bonding - and that maybe it’s time to stop and switch to full formula. But on the other hand, surely some breast milk is better than none? I feel like whatever I choose is not doing what’s best for them.

I had a similar experience to you, OP. It’s so hard, not least because the “breast is best” message is pushed so hard. But, ultimately, I wasn’t making anywhere near enough milk. Like you, I did the feeding/pumping/top up thing. When I look back, I really regret it - because it interfered with my enjoyment of my newborn. I wish I’d just accepted that it didn’t work for us a lot sooner.

I had to mix feed with both of mine, breast milk just didn't seem enough. First, I lost a lot of blood during birth so I just didn't have the fluids, second time just didn't seem to have enough. I think they ended up having more formula than breast because I just couldn't produce it, tried pumping etc but I just didn't seem to be able to produce it. Both my kids are happy, healthy and doing just fine. Please stop putting so much pressure on yourself, feed baby on demand and try to relax, a fed baby is a happy baby regardless of whether its breast or formula.

You’re doing a fantastic job, please be kind to yourself. My first son was 10lb 4 oz - I couldn’t keep up bf to start with and was exhausted, he would constantly be feeding (over 12 feeds every 24 hrs). Despite my efforts, his weight dropped to 9lb 5oz, so combi fed him for a few weeks to get his weight up. After 6 weeks or so, gradually my milk caught up. I gradually reduced his formula and went on to exclusively bf until 24 months. With bf, it can take a while to establish, this is completely normal!

OP if you're on Facebook look up Lucy Webber Breastfeeding IBCLC - I'm sure she's posted advice on this before and is fab. Babies take bottles very differently to breastfeeding- they can consume a lot more than they necessarily need from the bottle because the reflex when the bottle hits the roof of their mouth is to suck regardless of hunger. So them taking the bottle isn't necessarily a sign that your milk isn't enough.

BF is tricky at first and tiring, but it is good for your health and the baby's. You don't have to choose either or, BF / FF IMO. My DS's seemed to want and need a little formula, so I used it, but I continued to breastfeed them a lot for 2 years. As long as you BF frequently you will develop and maintain a good supply and baby will get better at it. When they are little baby's 'frequently', means many hours each day. It's only a relatively short time in the baby's / your life though. As they get a bit bigger they have less breast and more formula.

@KatieKat88

OP if you're on Facebook look up Lucy Webber Breastfeeding IBCLC - I'm sure she's posted advice on this before and is fab. Babies take bottles very differently to breastfeeding- they can consume a lot more than they necessarily need from the bottle because the reflex when the bottle hits the roof of their mouth is to suck regardless of hunger. So them taking the bottle isn't necessarily a sign that your milk isn't enough.

But even with the bottle they’re hardly gaining any weight, so they must need it? I just feel so lost.

@silicageldonoteat

I don’t know if the big top ups mean that they don’t want to cluster feed but this just hasn’t really happened. I don’t think I can reduce/stop the top ups as weight is so precarious so it feels a bit impossible.

Thanks to those who have asked/hinted about how I’m doing - I think I am generally pretty low in mood but it is all related to this feeding thing, I think. I just feel like I can’t enjoy my baby

Honestly lovely, just do what you can do to take the pressure off and make things a bit easier for yourself. Your baby will be happier and you will be happier when they are fed. Honestly, all they need is feeding and cuddling Don't regret missing out on these lovely early days by beating yourself up about breast milk vs formula

Nappy output is a really helpful way of determining if they're getting enough milk - what has that been like?

It’s such a shame that so many people’s first response is ‘just switch to formula’ ‘fed is best etc’. Some people actually want to breastfeed and this is not supportive advice to do so!

You realise that probably every one of those people who switched to formula didn't do it without some SERIOUS soul-searching and guilt? Often carried for years, because of the pressure from others that "if you're determined enough you will get over any hurdles". It just makes you feel like a failure, whether or not you have PCOS or had a traumatic birth, your baby is prem, has a tongue tie or narrow gape. Whether or not you can manage to get through the day on 2 hours sleep a night for weeks on end. Whether your husband works 60 hour weeks out of the house or works from home FT. Whether or not you have an 18th month old to also care for. Whether or not you have already started to slip into a post natal depression....

Honestly, it's completely down to an individual's circumstances. And what's right for THEM and their set up. Not an imaginary "oh, if they just persisted and tried LLL or a maternity nurse or clamped the baby to the boob 24/7 it could work...."

Yes, it's great if someone is determined and whose personal circumstances allow this determination to succeed. But, you know, years ago babies died if they didn't go to wet nurses when breast feeding partnerships weren't successful. Others died of malnutrition or were too weak to fend off illness. Please be careful what you advise. You don' tknow OP and you don't know her baby or her home circumstances.

I expressed for three months, OP, but it was so hard, and I barely got a minute to do so (new babies not really appreciating being put down!) Then at night one feed would run into another.

I tried all sorts. I don’t know why it didn’t work, I honestly don’t. I felt grief and I still do although it’s got easier. And I do have a beautiful baby who I adore and he is healthy so that should be enough, yet there is a sadness inside of me still. Expressing was the only way I could cope despite everyone telling me I was mad. But not doing anything would have made it worse.

Do what’s right for you. I’ll just add here that I’ve read a lot on MN about pressure to breastfeed and I don’t think that’s right at all and people should have free choice - but I experienced the opposite, intense pressure to formula feed, and in a way it’s more insidious because it does come from a good, kind place. People who love you who don’t want you to be tired. People who don’t want you to be too hard on yourself. But just the same if you WANT to breastfeed, you should be able to be supported in that.

OP what professional support have you had with feeding?

@Beseigedbykillersquirrels the sadness comes from really wanting to do something, and feeling like an utter failure that something so natural just doesn’t work. I had/have nothing against formula, but I really wanted to breastfeed. I wanted the closeness of the feed, the convenience, to be wrapped in that bubble, to have that connection and know my body was why baby was thriving. So to persevere so much with it, to hospitalise my DS, and knowing that was my fault was more than I could bear.

Add to that, that my DS was then allergic to formula and we had weeks of fighting to get him allergy formula, the guilt was immense.

I’m not really articulating myself well at all on this thread... the bfing failing and subsequent formula shit show to me felt like being stabbed in the heart, then shot in the face - that’s the only way I can describe it.

For something so natural, it’s bloody hard. I’d also say that with my first, bfing was never ever going to work, and as I said, I persevered to the point of hospitalising him and destroying my mental health. DS2 knows exactly what to do (I’m just crap at latching him). I know if I persevered with learning how to latch him we’d crack it this time, I’m just not that bothered this time around!

@silicageldonoteat

I don’t know if the big top ups mean that they don’t want to cluster feed but this just hasn’t really happened. I don’t think I can reduce/stop the top ups as weight is so precarious so it feels a bit impossible.

Thanks to those who have asked/hinted about how I’m doing - I think I am generally pretty low in mood but it is all related to this feeding thing, I think. I just feel like I can’t enjoy my baby

Give yourself permission to enjoy him. If that means formula is the way, then that's the way. I know exactly what you mean about weight being too precarious to risk lowering the top ups - it's a very thin line and as well meaning as the bf advice is (I took it all, and it still didn't work!), when you've seen your baby ill with hunger it's very difficult to take it.

DS didn't wee or poo for four days. He had crystals in his nappy and scratched his face and eyes to shreds with frustration and pain. Jaundice, and so much weight loss. It was awful. I was a mad woman. When I gave him that first bottle of formula he became a different baby. His eyes lit up.

Don't feel bad. You've done your best.

You've had some great advice here already, and I would definitely recommend seeking some real life support from a lactation consultant. I'm a NICU nurse, and I'm happy to give further pointers or recommendations if you'd like. But please remember how important you and your sanity is within all of this. The main thing your beautiful baby wants is you ❤️

[quote Flappityflippers1]@Beseigedbykillersquirrels the sadness comes from really wanting to do something, and feeling like an utter failure that something so natural just doesn’t work. I had/have nothing against formula, but I really wanted to breastfeed. I wanted the closeness of the feed, the convenience, to be wrapped in that bubble, to have that connection and know my body was why baby was thriving. So to persevere so much with it, to hospitalise my DS, and knowing that was my fault was more than I could bear.

Add to that, that my DS was then allergic to formula and we had weeks of fighting to get him allergy formula, the guilt was immense.

I’m not really articulating myself well at all on this thread... the bfing failing and subsequent formula shit show to me felt like being stabbed in the heart, then shot in the face - that’s the only way I can describe it.

For something so natural, it’s bloody hard. I’d also say that with my first, bfing was never ever going to work, and as I said, I persevered to the point of hospitalising him and destroying my mental health. DS2 knows exactly what to do (I’m just crap at latching him). I know if I persevered with learning how to latch him we’d crack it this time, I’m just not that bothered this time around![/quote]
Our latch was the problem too. Ds could latch on but then came off and would get so frustrated. The second night in hospital he cried and I cried. Sorry OP, your post struck such chord with me. I really hope you and your lovely baby can move forwards and breastfeed. I really do. But it not you are not alone and you will still be the most wonderful mother, I promise.

I wish that when breastfeeding didn't work out for me I had been less hard on myself. I kept trying and trying and trying, but for many reasons it just wasn't sustainable. It felt like the biggest issue in the world and I cried over it for weeks and weeks. And actually I could have spent that time much more happily if I had conceded earlier. Everything was so much easier once we completely switched to formula, and I was a better mum because I wasn't so stressed out and emotional all the time. And now he's 5 and strong as a bull and literally no-one gives a shit about how he was fed. I'm not saying formula is the answer - I'm just saying that in the end, it doesn't matter how you feed your child as long as they are fed, and it's not as big a deal as it feels at the time.

I struggled with my first baby. I felt like a failure, like if I couldn’t even feed them what kind of mother could I make. But I did switch to formula and it really was the best thing I did. It’s such a short period of their life you’ve just got to do what you can to get through it. He’s 18 now and is a strapping lad, he never gets ill unlike his breastfed younger siblings.

But it does matter misty

It might still be formula is the right solution here. I hope not for OPs sake.

It still matters.

@KatieKat88

Nappy output is a really helpful way of determining if they're getting enough milk - what has that been like?

Nappy output is good - 4-5 dirty and 8-10 wet in 24 hours. I think that’s why I was a bit blindsided by the rubbish weight gain today - I thought we were getting there.

And I'd add to my previous comment it definitely was a grieving process, I can't tell you how often I sobbed as my husband watched on helpless. He suggested so many times that switching to formula might be easier for me but it just made me feel even more of a failure (as I said, not how I feel about it now!) Others said I just needed to try other things - I went to 2 NHS breastfeeding groups a week, an LLL group every fortnight, paid for a private Cranial Osteopath (don't bother!) and lactation consultant. Nothing worked and it almost felt like the more support I tried to access that didn't work the crappier I felt about it all. You are allowed to hold multiple perspectives - e.g decide to use formula and also grieve that feeding didn't look as you hoped it would. I felt my grief really strongly for about 2 years and can say now I'm much more at peace with it all.

I was exactly the same with DD1, and it was exhausting. The expressing was taking its toll, so we ended up giving formula top ups. At about 8 weeks, we just gave a bottle of formula in the evening and she was breastfed the rest of the time. We stopped when she was 2.5 and I was expecting DD2. It's honestly one of the things I'm most proud of, and I'm so pleased we persevered.
I would have been devastated if I hadn't been able to breastfeed and needed to make it work. I had help from my local breaststart group, and various facebook groups. It has to suit you and your family though, so find something that works for you.
DD2, on the other hand, was a natural from the start and has been EBF. I had anticipated the same problems, so it's been a lovely surprise.

@silicageldonoteat I felt like this, I understand completely.
my LO had a tongue tie and breastfeeding was pushed on me so hard that between alternating boobs, top up with expressed and top up with formula then a pump I was left with zero sleep, literally zero.
I cried every time she latched. It was awful.
They wanted to put me on medication which has a side effect of increased lactation. Like this was a normal thing...?! I was pushed and pushed and it got to the point that being a new mum wasn’t even remotely enjoyable.
I switched to formula and haven’t looked back. She’s thriving and I’m a happy, attentive and not (completely) exhausted mother.
I’m not saying give up if it’s not what you truly want, but don’t continue just because of the expectation and pressure there is to breastfeed. There should be no guilt attached to how you feed your child x

It’s such a shame that so many people’s first response is ‘just switch to formula’ ‘fed is best etc’. Some people actually want to breastfeed and this is not supportive advice to do so!

Personally I cared more about my baby's health than my desire to breastfeed. I received some actively dangerous advice from consultants no less at the hospital I had to take my daughter to for the fourth time in 12 weeks. My wants or desires came a very low second to my baby's needs. My baby's health was my absolute priority. Whether I would have preferred to breastfeed or not didn't even come into it. All I cared about was my baby putting on weight and getting fed properly.

Op how is your baby other than gaining slowly? Are they contented and well? Do they sick up a lot?

The reason I ask is because I went through all of this with ds1, thinking it was my supply that was the issue, topping up, you name it. Turns out ds had cmpa and reflux, and once on medication his weight shot up.

The consultant who eventually diagnosed him said that if you can express anything at all after a feed it’s not an issue with your supply, but with your baby. A baby who has experienced pain as a result of feeding just won’t eat as much as they need, and you end up with a problem.

It really doesn't have to be all or nothing but the doing everything is definitely unsustainable.
As you can see on here, the advice is contradictory because there is no right or wrong, just what is best for you so whatever path you pick, don't torture yourself with how you could have done it differently.
If you think he'd be happy on mostly formula, offer the breast at say lunch time and bedtime so you still have some options. I'd make up a bottle before you settle down to feed so that if he won't settle on the breast you can give a tiny amount then do the calmer feed/comforting. If he just has formula in the night so you can sleep, it isn't the end of the world. Ultimately if you are exhausted your supply will suffer so it becomes a viscous circle. Above everything, enjoy your precious baby