Am I a bit pathological about this? Phobia of idleness

[thepeopleversuswork]

I've always really hated the idea of being idle: both in myself and others. I really struggle with the idea of doing nothing: I feel appallingly guilty and like stuff is going to unravel and it makes me go off and find stuff to do even if it doesn' t need doing. I get bored really quickly and I get really frustrated when close friends and family can't motivate themselves to get stuff done.

For example the idea of a day slobbing in front of the TV would be unbearable for me: I would be climbing the walls. I couldn't bear to sleep in any later than about 9am even if I had had a really late night.

For a long time I thought this was fairly normal in people who want to get anything done, but I've had comments from people recently suggesting they think I need to learn to relax properly and that I might be a bit weird. One friend suggested I was in danger of passing neurosis onto my DD when I said I would discourage her from chilling out on screens all day.

Just curious really as much as anything: I was brought up like this: my parents both had a very strong work ethic and pushed me so it feels very natural and normal to me --- my mum hated me watching TV and would always shoo me away from it. Ultimately I think she was probably right to do this as watching TV can be a huge time vacuum unless you're watching purposefully.

But I increasingly think I might be a bit of an outlier as a lot of people I know seem to think I'm a bit of a freak and take the view that wasting time can be good for you.

my ex DH's "need" to lie in endlessly because he was "tired from work" led directly to my having to do all childcare

If he was a decent person then he could have done the childcare in the afternoon and given you time off to pursue your own downtime.

But he wasn't a decent person so I don't think you can compare him to how many of us live and share our leisure time. DH and I always made sure each other had time away from childcare to rest, relax and recharge.

If your way of relaxing is being constantly busy that's fine but it's not for most other people.

I get it to an extent. Personally I can relax and read a book, internet or whatever. Even take a half hour nap after lunch. But the thought of staying in bed till midday or watching TV in the daytime is something I think of as lazy (and therefore has negative connotations). It's silly because I'm not really very productive and constantly feel I'm not making the most of my time. Maybe it's not rational but that's how I feel. My parents would be similar. I really think the idea of wearing pjs and watching TV in the daytime or staying in bed is something of a modern phenomenon. It's hard not to judge even though it doesn't have an impact on me. Food for thought!

That's not a phobia, it's choosing not to relax because you don't want to.
It also does sound very much like a stealth brag.
Because people are different to you, doesn't make them idle or lazy. Maybe you should rethink your attitude to others and their lifestyles and why it's so important to you.

Oblomov21 it wasn't a poor household no. We weren't loaded but we were comfortable.

fruitpastille

"But the thought of staying in bed till midday or watching TV in the daytime is something I think of as lazy (and therefore has negative connotations)."

Me too totally. TBH the idea of it totally gives me the heeby jeebies. I really hate the idea of daytime TV too. Actually makes me feel slightly nauseous.

Totally my problem. Willing to acknowledge its mine not others. But hell will freeze over before I think its OK for me to watch Loose Women. I'd definitely need therapy to get over that.

Doing nothing on your day off is doing something. That’s what I say to my husband anyway because he sounds a bit like you. Relaxing is really important because it leaves you refreshed for times when you need to be on it. Don’t feel guilty and enjoy chilling out.

Thepeopleversuswork I can identify with this.I keep busy because I have anxiety and doing things quietens the noise.My dm used to make sure we were up before 8 am by Hoovering the landing.
Lockdown has been great for me as I had to do less.No 12 hour days in a busy environment when the only excuse to not be there would be being hospitalised. Nods as only one at home who is now an adult.
I struggle with DH.He procrastinate and almost does nothing without my suggesting it.
Perhaps we get more reward for getting the to do list done.I am also more than happy to watch crap tv if I'm ill or have worked over 5O hrs a week.
I've been using lockdown for self improvement .I like to get up early.do all the chores.Chill or walk in the afternoon then set about tea.I always like to achieve something.I did used to feel guilty for sitting down and used to jump up and apologise to dh who didn't know why I did this.Upbringing and personality I guess.
I do loads and I am the only person in my family who isn't overweight .This also motivates me not to lay around and walk everywhere.

...hell will freeze over before I think its OK for me to watch Loose Women
I can't see any reason to change that about yourself. You've said you're happier than you've ever been and your self estem is high, so why change that?
But your contempt for other people who aren't like you sounds horrible to be around, especially if you are a parent.

I don't watch daytime tv. Never have. But feeling nauseous at the thought of it is really pretty extreme.

@thepeopleversuswork

Oblomov21 it wasn't a poor household no. We weren't loaded but we were comfortable.

fruitpastille

"But the thought of staying in bed till midday or watching TV in the daytime is something I think of as lazy (and therefore has negative connotations)."

Me too totally. TBH the idea of it totally gives me the heeby jeebies. I really hate the idea of daytime TV too. Actually makes me feel slightly nauseous.

Totally my problem. Willing to acknowledge its mine not others. But hell will freeze over before I think its OK for me to watch Loose Women. I'd definitely need therapy to get over that.

I do think there is a big difference between downtime and daytime TV. To be fair for some people that's their downtime and there is nothing wrong with that but they are not automatically linked you know.

I watch very little TV and I haven't watched daytime TV since university...and I'm getting on a bit. Its about finding your own downtime and what works for you. Loose women is my idea of hell but I prioritise time for myself where there is absolutely zero pressure to do anything. I'm in a far far better place mentally than I was for all those years I constantly was up and doing things.

Frankly I get a lot more done now because I'm a lot more efficient and less tired.

Me too totally. TBH the idea of it totally gives me the heeby jeebies. I really hate the idea of daytime TV too. Actually makes me feel slightly nauseous.

Do you not think that's just a tiny bit melodramatic?!

@thepeopleversuswork, as someone who used to always be doing things....

Be careful. Sometimes we need time to rest and recover. It’s not being idle. It’s recovering.
If you don’t, you are taking the risk of hitting a wall at some point. I know I did. And I’m still struggling because I’m still finding it hard to do ‘nothing’.

An example about how resting/spending a day in front of the tv/being idle can be important:
People are more likely to get long covid when they started ‘doing things ASAP’ after being unwell rather than resting in the 2 weeks after diagnosis.

Rest matters. Don’t learn it the hard way like I did.

It's all a question of degrees isn't it? And you need to find a life partner who pretty much aligns with you.

I have a dear, dear friend who always needs to be going out/doing something. Her husband once confided in me that he'd like nothing better than to sit at home on a Sunday afternoon every now and then and read the paper. She does not allow this. I feel for him.

LOL at the idea you are either doing something productive or watching Loose Women! I am terminally idle but would never watch that programme.

@thepeopleversuswork

Oblomov21 it wasn't a poor household no. We weren't loaded but we were comfortable.

fruitpastille

"But the thought of staying in bed till midday or watching TV in the daytime is something I think of as lazy (and therefore has negative connotations)."

Me too totally. TBH the idea of it totally gives me the heeby jeebies. I really hate the idea of daytime TV too. Actually makes me feel slightly nauseous.

Totally my problem. Willing to acknowledge its mine not others. But hell will freeze over before I think its OK for me to watch Loose Women. I'd definitely need therapy to get over that.

Resting and not doing anything doesn’t automatically mean watching Loose Women.

It could be spending hours on MN.

Welcome to being idle @thepeopleversuswork

Btw I agree with your friend about what you are teaching your dd.

Whatever you are doing doesn’t have to always be productive.
You are allowed to have down days when you do little.
Judging people on how productive or idle they look isn’t helpful.

Eg what will be on your list of idle things to do? Playing games on the Xbox? Time on the computer/MN/reading? Having a chat with friends in the garden?

I think, as with most things, it's all about getting the balance right for you. If being constantly busy keeps you happy that's fine, but you have to respect that others prefer a different balance and to enjoy some real down time. Your DD needs to find her own balance, with support from you.

They might well also NEED the rest rather than being on the go!

Do you mean busy but in the way of lots of hobbies and groups, sports and interests?

Theres a difference between being busy because you are doing stimulating interesting things and busy because you are a martyr who’s scared of what people will think of you sit down for 20 minutes in your own home. Beware the martyr route because it’s very dull!

I'm a bit like this although I don't think I'm quite as bad as you. I don't begrudge myself extra sleep but I do feel terribly guilty if I sit and watch TV or read a book. This might sound a bit silly but I've found it helps if I convince myself I'm being productive in some way. For example I have a Goodreads account so will set myself reading goals and while I am watching TV I will do pilates or stretches or clean the room I'm in at the same time.

@thepeopleversuswork I am not a big fan of daytime tv et al. I was made to feel, as a youngster, that daytime tv was somehow indicative of a personality deficit. I secretly loved it when I was home and able to just watch it without judgement.

I remember also not being allowed to watch itv, and being told that growing pains were in my head,

I also remember being told, after quitting McDonald's after one day (because it was fucking awful. Got a job at Boots the next week and worked there part time for the following 2 years), that I was ruining my future because I didn't know what a good work ethic was. I was 15. I've worked since I was 16, been to uni, worked my arse off, and raised 3 kids alone.

This stuff is very ingrained in our young psyches and is very damaging.

I do think it's a good point to reflect on what your child/children are seeing... The message you're sending.

I was brought up tjat the women were like duracell bunnies... Always 'doing'... It was utterly exhausting to be around... It also meant as a child, when I was inside, I rarely got to just sit and be.. With myself or my mum/gran... There was always cleaning to do/shopping to do/decorating to do...

It meant as I grew up I just had feelings of either massive boredom at the tasks I was expected to do or resentment at a family /society that thinks it's OK for women to be continuallt on the go, with little downtime while men are allowed to come and go as they please/do interesting hobbies... But women can fit in 20 mins of pleasant stuff a week... As they can't possibly enjoy themselves until their mental to do list is empty...

I wanted absolutely no part of it...

In the last years of her life, my mum said she regretted this...

There's no reward... No one gets ob their deathbed and wishes they'd cleaned behind the sofa more or rearranged theor kitchen cupboards more

PS... My adult life is unrecognisable from the adult women in my family...

Yesterday I did an hour of tiresome housework -... And spent the rest of the day socialising in the garden with pals...

It was ace! And much better for my mental and physical health

This might sound a bit silly but I've found it helps if I convince myself I'm being productive in some way. For example I have a Goodreads account so will set myself reading goals and while I am watching TV I will do pilates or stretches or clean the room I'm in at the same time.

How sad not to be able to just do something because you enjoy it though!

I feel like this when my anxiety is playing up, I realised I had a problem with anxiety when I moved in with my now DH and my inability to sit still was actually really hard to live with (for both of us).

I considered when this started and my DH had to really explain to me how sleeping in late once in a while or sitting on the sofa during the day really wasn't a catastrophe. Previously to this I'd not really considered doing either of those things out of choice. They usually happened when I was ill (which I now know was exhaustion rather than illness).

I spoke to my GP who suggested online CBT to encourage living in the moment, I also downloaded an app which I was supposed to do a few times a week. I managed to stick to this most weeks. What I found was that I was just really anxious about stopping, I felt as though something horrible was about to happen when I sat still. I ended up on medication for anxiety and it has been life changing for me.

I am much better at prioritising my time and I no longer feel that I have to constantly be doing something. I should add that when I was in the house and unable to busy myself I'd go shopping and buy materials/equipment for projects that would honestly never be finished. I felt a sense of accomplishment when I managed to get everything I'd need, I wasted a lot of money which I massively regret.

A positive of my problem with this is my work ethic, I will happily spend hours and hours on work projects and I don't seem to run out of steam. But I don't wish to be this way. I know it is ingrained into my family to be this way, my parents work constantly even now when they could have retired. I know my siblings and I have been affected by this as we are all the same, everything has to be completed to the most minute detail otherwise it isn't worth doing. We are all on medication and currently managing to relax a bit. We all have very stressful jobs which we make harder for ourselves (sad but true - I admit to this but one of my siblings is in complete denial that he does).

I think it's anxiety and/or learned behaviour. Like any habit it is hard to break but it is very important that you do break this behaviour because it isn't sustainable.

That's fine if you don't like being idle. I'd call it relaxing. Children need to chill out sometimes and if you are preventing DD from doing this at all, I would consider that very unhealthy. I grew up in a home with one parent like you. I wouldn't say I was prevented from relaxing, but my other parent's 'laziness' was constantly picked up on (FYI other parent is far from lazy). It still goes on today and I consider it abusive tbh.

In your OP, you've said that ": I feel appallingly guilty and like stuff is going to unravel and it makes me go off and find stuff to do even if it doesn' t need doing. I get bored really quickly and I get really frustrated when close friends and family can't motivate themselves to get stuff done."

Finding stuff to do that doesn't need doing isn't really productive, it's just a different way of wasting/spending time.

I choose to spend my time enjoyably when I can.