Am I a bit pathological about this? Phobia of idleness

[thepeopleversuswork]

I've always really hated the idea of being idle: both in myself and others. I really struggle with the idea of doing nothing: I feel appallingly guilty and like stuff is going to unravel and it makes me go off and find stuff to do even if it doesn' t need doing. I get bored really quickly and I get really frustrated when close friends and family can't motivate themselves to get stuff done.

For example the idea of a day slobbing in front of the TV would be unbearable for me: I would be climbing the walls. I couldn't bear to sleep in any later than about 9am even if I had had a really late night.

For a long time I thought this was fairly normal in people who want to get anything done, but I've had comments from people recently suggesting they think I need to learn to relax properly and that I might be a bit weird. One friend suggested I was in danger of passing neurosis onto my DD when I said I would discourage her from chilling out on screens all day.

Just curious really as much as anything: I was brought up like this: my parents both had a very strong work ethic and pushed me so it feels very natural and normal to me --- my mum hated me watching TV and would always shoo me away from it. Ultimately I think she was probably right to do this as watching TV can be a huge time vacuum unless you're watching purposefully.

But I increasingly think I might be a bit of an outlier as a lot of people I know seem to think I'm a bit of a freak and take the view that wasting time can be good for you.

@Kljnmw3459

Filling your day with busywork is just as pointless as sitting down doing nothing.

This is what I was thinking.

Choosing to actively do nothing is productive. It might be good for your mental health, or your physical health and it does not mean that you are passive because you are actively pursuing it.

Choosing to actively do something is also productive and might be good for your mental or physical health.

Feeling anxious about either is not good and I think that's the position that OP is in. Feeling guilty for resting is not healthy.

I agree it's an unhealthy mindset. It's interesting that you appear to so strongly associate idleness or doing nothing with tv or screen time, OP. There are umpteen other ways of relaxing and having down-time or leisure that have nothing to do with screens. Many of them are good for the mind, body and soul. It would be a great shame if you allowed your regrets about not doing more with your life to adversely affect your child's ability to enjoy leisure time for the rest of their life.

In my opinion people shpuld only be as busy as they actually need to be. Busy-ness is not morally superior. It's not a pursuit in its own right. Busy-ness should keep you fed and clothed, and you and your surroundings clean and cared for. The rest is leisure time!

gannett

"Why do you think sleeping until noon is wasting half a day?"

I think a lot of this is bound up with my experience of marriage in which my ex DH's "need" to lie in endlessly because he was "tired from work" led directly to my having to do all childcare.

I can feel resentment building when people get to sleep in because I never can and because sleeping in has come to be synonymous with my having to pick up the slack. Irrational, probably, but its a strong association.

i realise its not particularly rational and I'm trying to change it.

But if you don't have a partner or any family to help you you don't get the luxury of time to think. I've always felt slightly resentful of this whole narrative of the importance of space and time to "think" and "be", because its very much a privileged position to be in.

I've been a single parent for over 10 years.

I still think it's ok to step off the gas and just watch the clouds, and snooze on the sofa and watch daytime tv occasionally. Because without it I'd burn out.

The dishes will get dirty again soon enough.

I've always felt slightly resentful of this whole narrative of the importance of space and time to "think" and "be", because its very much a privileged position to be in.

But do you actually literally have no time to do this? Because your posts imply that it's more down to guilt and anxiety than a total lack of time. It's pretty pointless resenting other people for having something that you choose not to have. It's clear that your ex did a real number on you, but by continuing with this attitude you are still giving him power over your behaviour when he's not even there any more!

I think it’s good you’re being self-aware and questioning this, that’s a healthy attitude. A few things stood out for me. You say being able to do nothing is a privilege because it means you’ve got other people to help you, but in the case of your ex, he was the one with the ‘privilege’ because you were doing all the jobs, so in fact it wasn’t privilege, was it, it was entitlement?

I have mixed feelings on that because I am instinctively a lazy person. I happily stay in bed til lunchtime or later, I don’t feel compelled to do chores and cleaning immediately. I actually feel it’s much easier to live how I please now I live alone, because my laziness isn’t putting anyone else out. When I lived with a partner he wanted to clean and tidy much more than I did, and I admit I did sit back and let him do it, because my attitude was he was choosing to busy himself when he could’ve just chilled out with me and we’d have both done it at a later date. I can see that was perhaps quite lazy of me and led to an unequal balance. But I think the division of labour in relationships is a different topic entirely, tbh, and I agree that household chores need to be shared equally.

The whole idea of being busy/ambitious/achieving is a much larger topic imo. You say you’re never going to be a person who wants to do the bare minimum in life - that’s fine, and you absolutely should live how you please and keep pushing yourself to do more and progress if you want to. But some people ARE happy doing the bare minimum, and providing they’re looking after themselves and aren’t imposing on anyone else, why is this a problem?

Just curious really as much as anything: I was brought up like this: my parents both had a very strong work ethic and pushed me so it feels very natural and normal to me --- my mum hated me watching TV and would always shoo me away from it. Ultimately I think she was probably right to do this as watching TV can be a huge time vacuum unless you're watching purposefully.

What do you see as a valuable use of time OP? My parents didn’t like me too much watching too many films/tv but strangely, lying around reading stories/novels was ok.

Is spending idle time on MN ok?

You do sound very intense and you must realise that you can have a good work ethic as well as enjoying ‘down time’ where you just potter around?

@thepeopleversuswork

gannett

"Why do you think sleeping until noon is wasting half a day?"

I think a lot of this is bound up with my experience of marriage in which my ex DH's "need" to lie in endlessly because he was "tired from work" led directly to my having to do all childcare.

I can feel resentment building when people get to sleep in because I never can and because sleeping in has come to be synonymous with my having to pick up the slack. Irrational, probably, but its a strong association.

i realise its not particularly rational and I'm trying to change it.

As I’ve just said in my last post though, I think your ex’s laziness is a different issue to the general idea of people sleeping in til noon. I totally disagree it’s a privileged position - I’m single and live alone, which I’m perfectly happy with but that’s some people’s worst nightmare. Nobody is helping me or doing my chores, but I sleep in and ignore them because leaving some washing up overnight or a bit of clutter doesn’t bother me. I prioritise resting and do the chores when I feel like it.

I think there absolutely is a conversation to be had about division of labour in relationships and often that’s a gendered issue, but I don’t think that’s the same as work ethic or ambition in general.

I mean if it makes you happy to be busy that’s fine, but you don’t get to tell other people they must be like you, that’s weird. Being able to relax is very important,

Also, if I compare my life now to when I had young children - well there is no comparison... It was full on. None stop.
It made me anxious.
I have loads of free time now they are teenagers and I feel like I am ‘resting’ a lot of the time. I feel much calmer.

I guess as long as you don’t berate others for not sharing your activity mania it’s up to you, but it’s not an ideal way to live.

I was a bit like this in the past but being burned out all the time because you neglect your own self care is nothing to be proud of. That's what I have honestly learned. It doesn't mean you need to slob out but it does mean make sure you do things just for you-go for a walk/run/cycle, run a bath, do a face mask and paint your nails, make a delicious meal, do some meditation etc.
My mum was like you as well which is clearly where I got it from. MiL is as well. But looking after yourself isn't something you have to earn by working yourself into the ground all week for.

depends really. I veer between both states, but I do think the odd day of doing nothing can be good for you. If you can't relax then there's something a bit wrong. However your form of relaxing could be something other than watching TV. E.g. cooking or drawing or some other such "purposeful" activity. These can be meditative and therefore relaxing states! The odd day watching TV isn't bad but if you're in bad habits then yes it can be poor form. But often when people work mentally or physically challenging jobs it can be hard to find energy to do much more of an evening. So I get why people veg out.

Work hard and play hard is my preference. I know a family like you describe and the children need entertaining continuously. There's no down time and the kind of entertainment they expect is expensive. I think boredom can be a great fuel for creativity, particularly in children. You do you, but most people don't think like this.

My favourite activity is being idle and laying in front of screens allllll day. Doing it right now alongside a killer hangover.

Please op, be my guest. I’ve done nothing yesterday or today except shower and eat. I’d do less if I could.

Nobody in my house has done anything that constitutes work or housework all day today! Dc have been hanging about. Dh and I went on a lovely sunny dog walk for a couple of hours. I've done a bit of knitting, chatted to the dc, mucked about on MN, done some yoga. Dh has gone fishing. I might put a wash on and finish a chair I'm reupholstering. Later we'll all watch a tv programme together. I agree with CeeCeeBloomingdale - over-scheduled children do not learn to entertain themselves.

@thepeopleversuswork

I've always really hated the idea of being idle: both in myself and others. I really struggle with the idea of doing nothing: I feel appallingly guilty and like stuff is going to unravel and it makes me go off and find stuff to do even if it doesn' t need doing. I get bored really quickly and I get really frustrated when close friends and family can't motivate themselves to get stuff done.

For example the idea of a day slobbing in front of the TV would be unbearable for me: I would be climbing the walls. I couldn't bear to sleep in any later than about 9am even if I had had a really late night.

For a long time I thought this was fairly normal in people who want to get anything done, but I've had comments from people recently suggesting they think I need to learn to relax properly and that I might be a bit weird. One friend suggested I was in danger of passing neurosis onto my DD when I said I would discourage her from chilling out on screens all day.

Just curious really as much as anything: I was brought up like this: my parents both had a very strong work ethic and pushed me so it feels very natural and normal to me --- my mum hated me watching TV and would always shoo me away from it. Ultimately I think she was probably right to do this as watching TV can be a huge time vacuum unless you're watching purposefully.

But I increasingly think I might be a bit of an outlier as a lot of people I know seem to think I'm a bit of a freak and take the view that wasting time can be good for you.

Always worked, been out of work a couple of times, but soon go back in it again. Worked from before school leaving age to now. Always had a similar view of work really, and the feeling you should always be busy, but after many years in a physical occupation with exposure to the elements, and the early to be, early up mentality. There are times when I now feel the opposite.

Because of all I have done, and the fact I still have years left, I slow it up a bit now, and if it can wait a while, it waits. If on a Sunday I cannot be arsed, i don't get dressed, if I want a drink, I have one, I eat what I like and do as I please. You live and learn, middle age affords a few choices. And most of us end up smarter than we once were.

I think there needs to be a balance.

I got divorced a few years ago, and ended up having quite a lot of therapy. My counsellor was insistent that I needed to relax and slob out during my childfree evenings and weekends. So I tried it. And the times where I watched TV a lot made me feel physically crap - achey, headachey, grumpy - and with less motivation for doing things at other times. And the times where I got up and got going with things made me feel good - good for crossing things off my to-do list, good for getting up and moving my body etc. This positive effect seemed to persist to the days when I did have the kids - I was generally happier and calmer.

I ended up agreeing to disagree with my counsellor because I think it is very sad that society now sees sitting on your bum all evening, every evening, as normal. I don't think it's very healthy for our bodies or minds.

Netflix won't watch itself.

@1plus3plus1

I think there needs to be a balance.

I got divorced a few years ago, and ended up having quite a lot of therapy. My counsellor was insistent that I needed to relax and slob out during my childfree evenings and weekends. So I tried it. And the times where I watched TV a lot made me feel physically crap - achey, headachey, grumpy - and with less motivation for doing things at other times. And the times where I got up and got going with things made me feel good - good for crossing things off my to-do list, good for getting up and moving my body etc. This positive effect seemed to persist to the days when I did have the kids - I was generally happier and calmer.

I ended up agreeing to disagree with my counsellor because I think it is very sad that society now sees sitting on your bum all evening, every evening, as normal. I don't think it's very healthy for our bodies or minds.

Sad? I sit , knit, sew or read. Im knackered by that time and need to rest but I do find the above activities relexing

I no agree with other posters op. You ask for advice and then when given it you don't like it.

I'm happy? Well crack on then ! Clearly you are completely in denial. People keep telling you that this is not normal. But where is this left to go with this thread?

I have always suffered from this OP. It's not as easy to stop as some of the previous posters have said, you can't just snap out of it. Personally, I've found that lockdown the past year has really helped. I couldn't plan or do anything; before lockdown if I had a free gap in my personal diary, I'd fill it with something, visiting someone or decorating or cleaning. Gradually, over the last year I've managed to slow down a bit. The other weekend I didn't have my kids and I literally stayed in bed all day watching TV! This is unheard of for me.

I've also let go of my obsession with the house being spotless all the time. I've not steamed my floor for a week. Previously that was twice a day
I do think it's helped that my kids are now older so I don't feel like I need to be constantly doing things with them.

I think it's easy to see somebody finding it difficult to relax for an hour or two or have a lie in occasionally and forget that for some people, actually getting out of bed and shifting their arses for an hour or two would have them bitching and moaning about it.

You know the ones, (mostly but not all men) the type who feature on here still in bed at 3pm because they don't work, then spend hours watching TV, playing video games or staying in bed whilst somebody else is left to see to animals, kids, cooking, shopping, cleaning, washing up, working, etc.

It wouldn't hurt for those lazy shites to have a bit of work ethic/guilt about them.

I like getting up, get shit done, then being able to do whatever I want (including bugger all) because the important stuff has been covered. I also like not wasting the times when my medical condition is not dominating my life and actually seeing/doing/experiencing something, as I never know when or if that will be taken away from me.

My mother's idea of hard work was to sit on the sofa in front of the TV The house was filthy. No holidays, no trips out. Just imprisoned from 3.30pm Friday until 8.10am Monday. No activities in the evenings unless somebody else was prepared to go out of their way to take me. Nothing. She couldn't be arsed. Oh, except for the odd pottery class or something she fancied doing and a bit of shopping in Sainsbury's once a month. The rest of the time, fuck all; the milkman delivered most food, the catalogue the clothes.

I wouldn't want to be the person who, when a funeral is planned, the next of kin look blankly at the professional and say 'well, she didn't actually do anything. No, nothing to remember. Nothing funny.'

But some people are just fine with that. Largely because there has always been somebody else picking up their slack.

Were you bought up in a very strict household? Poor? It sounds like a very poor, money short attitude. Often people for whom money is very tight have this view of idleness.

Doing nothing is important. It's when the brain had its best ideas. Did you know that?