Am I a bit pathological about this? Phobia of idleness

[thepeopleversuswork]

I've always really hated the idea of being idle: both in myself and others. I really struggle with the idea of doing nothing: I feel appallingly guilty and like stuff is going to unravel and it makes me go off and find stuff to do even if it doesn' t need doing. I get bored really quickly and I get really frustrated when close friends and family can't motivate themselves to get stuff done.

For example the idea of a day slobbing in front of the TV would be unbearable for me: I would be climbing the walls. I couldn't bear to sleep in any later than about 9am even if I had had a really late night.

For a long time I thought this was fairly normal in people who want to get anything done, but I've had comments from people recently suggesting they think I need to learn to relax properly and that I might be a bit weird. One friend suggested I was in danger of passing neurosis onto my DD when I said I would discourage her from chilling out on screens all day.

Just curious really as much as anything: I was brought up like this: my parents both had a very strong work ethic and pushed me so it feels very natural and normal to me --- my mum hated me watching TV and would always shoo me away from it. Ultimately I think she was probably right to do this as watching TV can be a huge time vacuum unless you're watching purposefully.

But I increasingly think I might be a bit of an outlier as a lot of people I know seem to think I'm a bit of a freak and take the view that wasting time can be good for you.

I can be like this. I read or run to relax, but I can waste lots of time too. Sometimes I waste time cos there are just too many things to do and I want to get them all done at once but don't know where to start.

I'm not sure it's a work ethic on my part, rather than a slight mania. I hate, hate, hate meditation. That bit at the end of pilates when we meditate, just, why? I've already spent an hour doing slow stuff and thinking. I used to hate silence when I wasyounger, but 2kids put paid to that.

No one else in my house is like this.

Dissimilitude

Yep the moral thing is something I really struggle with. I know a lot of this is a hangover from my upbringing.

For example my mum loathed it when we watched TV. It used to make her visibly anxious. I think it was mainly a snob thing - I think she thought Tab watching was a bit common — but with a bit of Puritan work ethic chucked in. And a kind of Reithian idea that if you are going to be consuming media passively it needs to be educational.

Rationally speaking I know there’s nothing wrong with watching TV and that her attitude stank but it has this moral thing for me subconsciously which I find hard to shake. I can hear her voice in my head when my DD watches TV.

I think it points to a high degree of anxiety that you are probably not aware of. Try yoga.

denverRegina

Well that’s why I’m on here... I am trying to unpick it. Maybe you’re right that I am really dying inside but this isn’t how I experience it.

And telling me I’m in denial when I have been very open about my feelings is slightly unconstructive.

But as you know me so well, why don’t you tell me what is wrong with me.

Well something I said has got your back up obviously.

And after your last post I'd suggest that yes, denial is in play here. Along with extreme anxiety and misplaced guilt.

That's not a happy place.

Op have you heard of Theory of Mind?

To me it sounds like you may lack this-your rigid , fixed belief that others should be like you and zero understanding that their needs, feelings are different to yours and equally valid.
Its associated with conditions like ASD and ADHD but not always.

denverRegina

What got my back up was your tone and the way you were telling me that I can’t be happy when you don’t know me from Adam.

I am perfectly open to the idea that there are unresolved issues in my life: that’s what I am here for and I am very open to hearing your suggestions.

But you are telling me you know I am not happy when I have told you that that’s not how I experience it. That suggests you are over-simplifying what I’m saying.

By all means tell me what you think is wrong in my life but don’t tell me you know what it feels like to be me.

As a therapist I'd say it's good to sit in the middle and be flexible to swing up and down the spectrum when needed. So it's great you get stuff done but if you were ill for example it would be healthy for you to accept that maybe you won't get much done. On the flip sone people can do too much ana they then burn out or are using activity to avoid their problems/emotions or people can obviously do too little leading to problems building up ana lack of energy/low mood. A lot of this is based on character but learning to be able to slow sone sometimes is probably something for you to consider op 😄 xx

sarahc366

Yep. This sounds sensible

It's interesting that you say you have a low boredom threshold OP. I would also say the same but for me that means I can't bear doing 'things' which are boring rather than stuff i enjoy. So, I would be bored out of my skull cleaning, doing housework etc but would enjoy sitting down reading a book or watching a good programme on the tv.

Being busy doesn't equate with not being bored!

@BrumBoo

Good for you? What an odd not-so-stealth brag....

I know so embarrassing.

You probably don't actually want to hear this op but it's not particularly normal. I have a sting work ethic as does my partner but equally we relish our time off when we have it. Sometimes times this is getting stuff done and other times it's relaxing.

Life isn't a competition where you get a reward for making beat use of it. It sounds exhausting. I do also think there's a good chance you will pass this issue on so it needs to be addressed.

You have anxieties, most likely from childhood. Your feeble attempts to drag morals into that just emphasise your denial. Your friends are right

""For those of you pushing the idea that idleness is when you do your thinking etc: I understand that in theory. But if you don't have a partner or any family to help you you don't get the luxury of time to think. I've always felt slightly resentful of this whole narrative of the importance of space and time to "think" and "be", because its very much a privileged position to be in."

Finding time to 'be' is important though, even if it's just a few minutes, you are worth that and deserve it. It goes further than being a privilege, because it transfers into other areas of life and I find when times are hard, that just being is a calming influence, allowing an escape from everyday stress. It is more a state of mind than anything. Not doing necessary chores like childcare is idleness though! In all things there needs to be balance, rushing around tidying when that time could be spent enjoying a cuddle and story with your child for examp!e is time you will never get back.
If being successful and productive is important to you, then that's fine too, but sometimes it really is the small things that make a difference to quality of life.

@Iwonder08

You have anxieties, most likely from childhood. Your feeble attempts to drag morals into that just emphasise your denial. Your friends are right

This isn't really fair: I've been really open about the idea that I reject the moral argument but that it was something I was brought up with and I struggle to get out from under it. This is something which was hammered into me as a child and I am trying really hard to recover from.

My friends probably are right and I'm trying to tackle it. But its not really accurate to say I'm dragging morals into it -- I'm trying to do the opposite.

That was a bit unpleasant. Not sure the op deserved quite that level of vitriol?

I'm currently still in my pj's, got work tonight and the past 2 days I've been sorting the garden out.

@vodkaredbullgirl

I'm currently still in my pj's, got work tonight and the past 2 days I've been sorting the garden out.

Ahhhh pyjama gardening. The pinnacle of Easter joy!

I know exactly what you mean OP.

I was brought up in boarding schools and every minute was timetabled. I think that is why I feel the need to be always on the go and that leisure has to be in some way enriching, either educationally or culturally etc. I stopped reading fiction years ago as I felt that factual texts were more worthy of spending time on, and now I can't get back into the habit. I can't sit still for a whole film and I can't imagine binging a box set!

That busy lifestyle certainly didn't make me feel unhappy but I've realised it's not the most balanced way to live. Also people did ask me to do all sorts for them because I would always get it done, not matter how hard to shoehorn in.

I found yoga helped me be focused on living in the moment, plus taking up a hobby that is done sitting down (as ridiculous as that sounds).

Not to forget mumsnet of course, giving myself permission to browse it without guilt has been a real step forward for me. Previously I would have rationed it and sometimes not looked for weeks because it felt lazy.

Old habits die hard but I don't want to be very old and suddenly realise I'd never had the time to stop and relax.

Filling your day with busywork is just as pointless as sitting down doing nothing.

"I've always felt slightly resentful of this whole narrative of the importance of space and time to "think" and "be", because its very much a privileged position to be in."

I'm a single parent, and try to make time for myself, when I can, even if it is just an hour a day of watching a show I like, reading or playing games on my phone.

I think of reading, for example, as a mostly constructive, and good for the mind. Even gaming can be excellent for developing basic logic skills, memory, spatial awareness, keeping in touch via a pandemic etc.

I think if you're the sort of person that likes to feel like you've accomplished something, that's all well and good, but if you have a different idea from some, of what you consider a worthy way of passing the time, you shouldn't judge or try to impose how you feel on them (like they shouldn't with you).

It does read like you could do with relaxing a little though. Some tlc, where you make time, to "think" and "be" or whatever you fancy. Put the kids to bed an hour early, take a day off all housework but for one load of laundry, or whatever else you need to, then dedicate that time to something you really enjoy, but would normally be too busy to do. Then, if you like it, try to make that time, a part of your routine.

I like listening to podcasts or music while I do chores, as with those I do get the guilt of "I could be doing some constructive multi tasking, instead of just laying here lying a beached whale". Some tasks I really struggle with, without something to listen to, that's when I get "bored".

I still think you should check overcoming perfectionism
You seem to have strict rules -
I must be productive
I must not sit idly
That drive your behaviour

www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/Resources/Looking-After-Yourself/Perfectionism

Perfectionists when it a problematic trait often don’t recognise it, and think they aren’t good enough to be a perfectionist!!!!
I BET this applies to you ! 😊

I would find this exhausting tbh. When you mention "laziness" in others, have you thought about the fact that other people might not have the energy/stamina/health to keep going constantly like you do? It seems a shame not to be able to relax properly and to always have itchy feet, feeling like you must be doing something useful. If what needs to be done is done, what's the harm in relaxing and enjoying chilling out?

I think anything which is extreme is unhealthy.

Extreme laziness to the point of not going for some fresh air every day, not cleaning up after yourself or spending all your free time laid in bed eating crap watching Netflix - that’s unhealthy.

But then so is the other end of the extreme - being so anxious and tightly wound that you find it impossible to just be still occasionally, that’s unhealthy too.

It’s also bad that you will project this onto others as well, your children for instance.

There is A LOT of value in finding stillness in your life.
It doesn’t have to be laid in bed or watching tv, it can be a quiet stroll down through the countryside, reading a book in the garden, painting your nails and doing a face mask or listening to a podcast whilst you bake a cake. These are the small opportunities to recharge your mind and stop all the ‘noise’.

I am not one for laying in bed (even before kids!) and I love to be active and rarely just lay around watching mindless shite on tv during the day. But I always find time for meditation - that doesn’t mean sitting cross legged in silence. It means I always find time to just ‘be’. Usually when I’m walking dogs or exercising.

I don’t think you need to change anything drastically but perhaps find a bit more balance.

My day to day experience of this is to feel frustrated when people are, for example, able to sleep in until noon. I recognise that this is a shortcoming on my part rather than theirs and I don't actively want to change this but the way I experience it is a sense of impatience that people can choose to waste half a day sleeping. A deep, instinctive and probably very unhealthy part of me thinks this is lame.

Why do you think sleeping until noon is wasting half a day?

I've been lucky enough over the past decade to set my own body clock. I go to sleep when I'm sleepy, wake up whenever I wake up. It's done wonders for my physical and mental health. In my experience people who need to lie in until noon at the weekend do so because their bodies need to catch up on the sleep they haven't had in the week, in order to function better. The lie-in enables them to be more productive when they need to be.

I don't think your ambition, drive or desire to be productive are bad things. I do think you need to reframe what you think of as "productive".

I agree with the PP who said she felt most productive reading and thinking, and least productive when doing chores and getting mindless things done. Being productive to me is using my brain, not getting the house shipshape or earning money.

Several times on this thread people have mentioned listening to podcasts or reading a book as a "reward" for being productive, which I think is a bit sad - those things ARE productive to me. Anything that gets me to think and engage with the world outside of me is productive.

I'm not even necessarily talking about high-flown Reithian educational stuff either. Trashy culture can be intellectually rewarding if you think about it in the right way.