Am I a bit pathological about this? Phobia of idleness

[thepeopleversuswork]

I've always really hated the idea of being idle: both in myself and others. I really struggle with the idea of doing nothing: I feel appallingly guilty and like stuff is going to unravel and it makes me go off and find stuff to do even if it doesn' t need doing. I get bored really quickly and I get really frustrated when close friends and family can't motivate themselves to get stuff done.

For example the idea of a day slobbing in front of the TV would be unbearable for me: I would be climbing the walls. I couldn't bear to sleep in any later than about 9am even if I had had a really late night.

For a long time I thought this was fairly normal in people who want to get anything done, but I've had comments from people recently suggesting they think I need to learn to relax properly and that I might be a bit weird. One friend suggested I was in danger of passing neurosis onto my DD when I said I would discourage her from chilling out on screens all day.

Just curious really as much as anything: I was brought up like this: my parents both had a very strong work ethic and pushed me so it feels very natural and normal to me --- my mum hated me watching TV and would always shoo me away from it. Ultimately I think she was probably right to do this as watching TV can be a huge time vacuum unless you're watching purposefully.

But I increasingly think I might be a bit of an outlier as a lot of people I know seem to think I'm a bit of a freak and take the view that wasting time can be good for you.

@thepeopleversuswork there's definitely merit in getting sme counselling related to this. It goes quite a lot deeper than you might at first think and a lot of it will probably relate to a need for your parents' approval. What's your relationship with them now?

'I do relax a bit: try to read books/spending time in the garden, but there's always a nagging sense that there's something else I should be doing and I find it very hard, knowing there is housework or work to be done, to voluntarily sit it out'

There is always stuff to do. But recharging your batteries is one of them. Put it on your to do list. Allocate time every day of no jobs without fretting about what you should be doing.

I’ve said YANBU because I do know people who genuinely don’t seem to be able to do what I call ‘relax’. I think that mentally it could be hard thinking you cannot have quiet moments, relax, not seem to be doing something, as you could be putting lots of pressure on yourself constantly and berating yourself for not achieving.

I don’t like extra pressure and quite happily live the other side of life to you.

Just my thoughts, we do what suits us in our lives.

The thought conditioning you have experienced from your parents likely gives you a thought process sometimes unconsciously that sets off your fight/flight responses.

That nagging sense you describe probably are uncomfortable sensations (usually adrenaline based fight or flight responses) which means you just get agitated and therefore don’t want to sit still. It has created what is essentially a negative feedback loop that now has you thinking that any idleness or if we are being positive “self care” or “relaxation” is bad, even in others. That will proliferate onto your daughter as it did onto you unless you address it in yourself but her response to it may not be the same as yours.

I’d say there’s not being lazy and then there’s what your describing, which sounds a bit like you might need therapy.

Hmm.

My main hobby is reading and ill happily read 2-3 books over a weekend.

I also meditate.

Would you consider me idle? What do you mean by getting things done?

Are you saying if you are able to relax and waste a few hours with a box set, you have a questionable work ethic?

I’ve been a single parent for years - I would advise anyone embarking on that journey to lower their housework standards precisely because if you don’t, there is no time to relax.

For what it’s worth, I consider that I have an above average work ethic fuelled by my mother’s fear of being without money. I have 3 jobs and no support from the ex. I am busy beyond belief some days. But I can sit with a layer of dust till I get round to it and I can snooze on the sofa on a bank holiday afternoon.

In some ways I know what you mean OP. But I also think that definitions of ‘wasting’ time is subjective.

Like everything in life there needs to be a balance.
I’m a naturally busy, productive person and spend most of my day cramming in everything required of me to enable our household with two children, a dog and our three businesses to function. I’m non-stop all day. But from 9pm most nights you will find me idle on the sofa, I need that downtime to function and regenerate. I’m really picky about what I watch, I can’t remember the last time I ever just passively let whatever was on TV in real time just wash over me. I imagine you wouldn’t consider that to be an idle waste of time, more intentional relaxation.

I am quite mindful of my children’s screen time but feel that it helps them unwind and zone out at the end of busy days as it does me.

I often think I would LOVE to just waste time, to just have so much luxurious time I can afford to ‘waste’ some of it being unproductive. I do wonder how on earth some people can afford to be so seemingly idle, as I do view it as a luxury to be afforded. But I don’t really care what anyone else does in that regard as it doesn’t affect me unless we’re talking about DH from whom I expect equivalent productivity levels to mine

There's a difference between being idle and relaxing. Idle, to me, conjures up laziness.

I couldn't put my feet up if the living room needed hoovering. But once it's done I'll happily stick a film on and have a cup of tea, relax for a couple of hours.

And there is nothing nicer than, having cooked a Sunday roast, cleaned up (with DH) and packed the school bags ready for Monday, than having a snooze on the sofa for 20 minutes. Yes there's still stuff to do around the house. I could sort out a drawer or dust behind the radiators. But my world won't collapse because of it and if DH or DS are worried about it they can do it.

@BrumBoo

Good for you? What an odd not-so-stealth brag....

I don't think OP was bragging at all

I’m not sure.

I’m a bit like it after having been in an abusive relationship, where the idea of me resting was not to be contemplated.

So some might be reacting to a childhood where this is drummed into them also.

Also could being active all the time be to do with adhd or similar? Not an expert so not trying to offend anyone who does have a similar condition or to diagnose anyone.

I also feel 'guilty' when sitting doing nothing, but am also a master of procrastination. (I suspect I have ADD, for the record!)

How old is your DD? I think you are possibly in danger of storing up some problems for your her. Once she gets to senior school how do you think you might handle her having some down-time instead of doing homework for example?

I think most of us internalise basic capitalist virtues to the point we think they're instincts OP...it's really fine to be a sloth as long as you're not a drag on others IMHO.

My parents taught me that "the devil makes work for idle hands" and I also found it hard to switch off. But your brain needs idleness to allow creativity and to process what is happening in your life. There needs to be a balance where you give your brain a chance to do that. Could you try listening to some mindfulness apps for 15 minutes each day? Or use a journal to write down thoughts about the joys in your life? Try to find something that allows you to be idle so that your thoughts wander. It's actually healthy for you.

@Notoriouslynotnotious

So what you are really saying is you see busyness as virtuous and idleness as non virtuous based on your conditioning growing up. Personally I don’t agree. I think downtime is absolutely fine.

Ineed this.

You were conditioned by your parents to be like them and think like them. Try another way

Ultimately I think she was probably right to do this as watching TV can be a huge time vacuum unless you're watching purposefully.

I love this judgmental posts... when posted on a time-wasting social media like MN 😂

A couple of things it might be worth thinking about.

First your correlation of morality with busy-ness. You say it's a Victorian throwback but I think all of us are conditioned to think like this in 21st century capitalism. To validate ourselves by our success in work and our visible accomplishments rather than our connections to other people and our characters.

I don't think a strong work ethic means that you're morally superior to anyone else. It's a useful thing to have in life, don't get me wrong. But we all KNOW workaholics who have the mindset to succeed in the world of business aren't necessarily the kindest or most loyal people. Quite the opposite in fact - to succeed in capitalism you have to be a bit of a selfish cunt tbh. Whereas some of the people I know who've opted out of that for a more simple life - I'm sure they'd be called lazy by some, to prefer enjoying nature or art to getting up and taking on the world. But they're also big-hearted, generous, amazing friends. My point is - if a work ethic works for you, it works for you. But it's nothing to do with the quality of your character. Therefore, slobbing around doing nothing does not mean you're a bad, lazy person.

Secondly, it's interesting that you call watching TV "slobbing around", and later you say that you're trying to relax/switch off by reading. To me, cultural intake isn't lazy. Reading isn't doing nothing. Watching TV isn't doing nothing. They're activities that make me think about the world and how it works. They're activities that move me emotionally. Watching a good show or reading a good book enriches my life immeasurably, and far more than busying myself with a to-do list of mindless tasks. (Even if some of those tasks earn me money!)

Do you only consider activities that bring in money worthwhile? Is spending a morning doing a boring task for your work inherently "better" than going around an art gallery or watching a film, just because no one pays you to do the latter?

And do you consider activities that bring you pleasure to be lesser than the ones you don't enjoy? Do you think taking time out to simply spend with family or friends, laughing and eating and drinking, to be a waste of time when you could be doing something more "worthwhile"?

I don't think you necessarily need to alter your character. You like being busy, lots of people do, it works for you. But you need to be careful at foisting all of it on to other people, especially your daughter.

I’m the same. To the point I had a breakdown when I was pregnant that once the baby came, I wouldn’t be productive anymore and everything would fall apart.

That’s when I realised it was a neuroses and not particularly healthy. I got stressed just thinking about it. I also can’t go to bed with the house a mess. It’s never more than 15 minutes worth of work but I can’t rest until it’s sorted for the morning.

I get a huge sense of reward if I’ve been busy all day, but sometimes those things I have been busying myself with have just been displacement activities from the more important things.

So I do relate to your feelings, but I do suspect that you have a sense of pride and sense that you’re ‘better’ than others who don’t have the same ‘work ethic’ as you.

It's not the fact that you get bored quickly and don't like to watch tv all day the problem, that's fairly normal. Half the world likes to slob in front of the tv or internet in the evening, the other half is much happier getting stuff done, exercising or socialising.
Neither are wrong, neither are unusual.

It's the judgmental attitude and the fact that you sound tiring for everybody else around you the issue.

find stuff to do even if it doesn' t need doing
so basically wasting your time completely for the sake of it?

Relaxing means different things for different people, read a book, baking, running, driving, painting... it's fine. It's still relaxing.

Kids need to run around one way or another for at least 1 hour or so a day, so i wouldn't let mine indoors all day either. But wasting time just to justify you are actually doing "something" sounds very boring and counterproductive.

It's not relaxing you need to learn, it's being more efficient!

I also have a strong work ethic and it only happens because I'm fiercely protective of my idle times when the mind can drift, make new connections, and make space for inspiration.

I think busywork is destructive to true productivity

I recognise some of this too. I am an early riser, even on days like today when I have nothing to do or nowhere to go, I'm always up at 6am, showered and dressed at 6.30am and then I am scrambling to find little jobs around the house that I can do without waking the family up.

At 7.30am I wake the dogs up, give them breakfast and then we head out for a couple of hours. The the day is spent tidying, more walking, going to the shops (I always walk as it takes me longer), cooking etc. I don't really sit down until about 7pm, but then I really enjoy it and I spend a couple of hours watching TV and doing nothing. I can't really enjoy relaxing at any other time of the day.

My mum is the same, so I guess I got it from her.

I used to be like this and used to feel anxious and panicky if I had nothing to do. In my late teens and through my 20s I worked very long hours in an office job and still worked a night shift 3 times a week in a different job to feel like I was making the most of my time. More recently I worked 6 days a week, travelling and working long events up until I went into early labour with my baby (he was absolutely fine! Thank god).

Since having him I have definitely changed and come 7pm I can quite happily chill out in front of the tv, if I am feeling a bit twitchy I do crochet while I sit and watch so I feel busy and less fidgety.

My parents were not like this, neither are my siblings, I am the only one who gets this type of anxiety and the need to be busy so I do not know where this came from in me?

I will actively try not to put this type of pressure on my children however I think there is a line to find because I would still rather them be active and engaged than sitting about being lazy! That would drive me crazy!

My mum was like you and it was bloody exhausting, dad and I can happily sit and chat etc for ages without the need to be constantly moving, being moaned at for doing nothing etc. Mum would start something then be distracted by something else then have to go in to the loft right this minute and we would be moaned at for not helping.

What do you do when everything is 'done'?

@CandyLeBonBon

My mum is like this. It was exhausting growing up and I have huge issues surrounding never feeling good enough and constantly worried about being judged for my productivity which has led to burnout and several mental health diagnoses.

Don't do that to your DD. This is a neurosis and it stems from some form of insecurity. Spend some time getting support for it because self care (ie downtime) is not lazy or idle. It's vital to your mental well-being.

I agree with this,my mother was the same. It was a form of control and abuse.

Op the term " idleness" is really judgemental and critical.
Please research therapy