SAHM - does that mean I have to do pretty much everything?

[squishmittens]

I am a SAHM - we have a 4 year old in reception and a 2 year old at home full time. DH works from home full time. His regular chores are:

Putting out the wheelie bins (not taking the rubbish from inside bin to outside, just putting the wheelie bins on the curb once a week).

Walking and feeding the dog twice a day (he likes this - I'm basically not allowed to walk the dog as this is his time for fresh air).

Mowing the lawn

Any adhoc diy job/repair as absolutely necessary (e.g. fixing broken oven, washing machine, so stuff we can't live without - maintenance work that can wait is never done).

Puts one child to bed (we each take one child and swap each night)

He very occasionally loads/unloads the dishwasher and hoovers the lounge - maybe once or twice a month.

I do literally every other home and child related activity. I'm fed up of all of it. I think my DH should do more, he obviously doesn't and now I feel like a maid. I'm thinking of going back to work and paying for nursery/cleaner/after school clubs etc. otherwise I feel like I'm going to lose it. AIBU?

You had a nanny, on top of split shifts, on top of exactly shared chores, with one child?

Yes, more or less.

@AlexaShutUp

Incidentally *@Pumperthepumper*, you haven't really answered the question as to whether I should have just sucked it up if my DH had unilaterally decided to be SAHP when dd was younger, with responsibility for childcare only, even if I didn't think that was fair. What if we had both decided that we wanted that role?

I honestly can't see how this can be anything other than a negotiation, an arrangement that is mutually agreed between both partners. And if they can't agree between them on what the SAHP role should involve, then the only fair option is that they should both share everything between them.

What if you had decided you both wanted that role? What difference does it make? I’m taking issue with this idea you floated of not seeing the point of having a parent at home if they didn’t also do the vast majority of the grunt work, because you don’t see ‘childcare’ as enough of an equal division of Labour.

@AlexaShutUp

You had a nanny, on top of split shifts, on top of exactly shared chores, with one child?

Yes, more or less.

That does sound easy then.

That does sound easy then

It was easy in some ways, not so easy in others. I'm not sure why that's relevant though.

@AlexaShutUp

That does sound easy then

It was easy in some ways, not so easy in others. I'm not sure why that's relevant though.

Two parents doing equal amounts of childcare and chores for one child and still needing a nanny seems pretty easy to me. I don’t know why it’s relevant either, you brought it up.

I’m taking issue with this idea you floated of not seeing the point of having a parent at home if they didn’t also do the vast majority of the grunt work, because you don’t see ‘childcare’ as enough of an equal division of Labour.

But that's the truth. In our situation, there wouldn't have been any point in having a SAHP unless they had taken on a significant chunk of the "grunt work".

It wouldn't have been better for my dd - she benefited enormously from having time with her lovely nanny, as well as from having equal time with both parents. We benefited as a family from having two incomes and maintaining two careers. The only thing that might have made it easier would have been not having to worry about the housework on top of a full time job. Otherwise, what would we have gained as a family?

I'm not saying that's the same for all families, because circumstances will differ, but it is certainly the case for many people I know.

@AlexaShutUp

I’m taking issue with this idea you floated of not seeing the point of having a parent at home if they didn’t also do the vast majority of the grunt work, because you don’t see ‘childcare’ as enough of an equal division of Labour.

But that's the truth. In our situation, there wouldn't have been any point in having a SAHP unless they had taken on a significant chunk of the "grunt work".

It wouldn't have been better for my dd - she benefited enormously from having time with her lovely nanny, as well as from having equal time with both parents. We benefited as a family from having two incomes and maintaining two careers. The only thing that might have made it easier would have been not having to worry about the housework on top of a full time job. Otherwise, what would we have gained as a family?

I'm not saying that's the same for all families, because circumstances will differ, but it is certainly the case for many people I know.

If she spent time with a nanny, as well as equally between two parents, it doesn’t seem like she got much time with any of you, there’s only 24 hours in a day.

Two parents doing equal amounts of childcare and chores for one child and still needing a nanny seems pretty easy to me. I don’t know why it’s relevant either, you brought it up.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to get at. Yes, we had a nanny while DH and I were both out at work. It was our preferred choice of childcare.

I brought it up because you asked why I would have different expectations from paid childcare and a SAHP. I was making the point that the expectations would have been different because a) because a SAHP would have been a much higher cost for us, and b) because it's generally easier looking after your own child.

@AlexaShutUp

Two parents doing equal amounts of childcare and chores for one child and still needing a nanny seems pretty easy to me. I don’t know why it’s relevant either, you brought it up.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to get at. Yes, we had a nanny while DH and I were both out at work. It was our preferred choice of childcare.

I brought it up because you asked why I would have different expectations from paid childcare and a SAHP. I was making the point that the expectations would have been different because a) because a SAHP would have been a much higher cost for us, and b) because it's generally easier looking after your own child.

Yes, you said you couldn’t understand why people found being at home with their own NT child difficult. When you found it so easy - so easy that you also had a nanny because you couldn’t share the childcare plus housework equally between you and your partner.

If she spent time with a nanny, as well as equally between two parents, it doesn’t seem like she got much time with any of you, there’s only 24 hours in a day.

She had 4 hours a day with the nanny, some of which she slept through when very young. She was with me from 1pm to 7pm every day, and with DH every evening (he used to get home at 5ish). It felt like a good split, though again, I'm not sure why it is relevant.

To be clear, I'm not arguing that I had it harder than anyone else, I was happy with my work life balance. I loved the time that I had with dd and wouldn't have wanted it any other way. That was the most relaxing and enjoyable part of my day.

I'm just saying that I think the role of a SAHP will have differing value to different families, depending on their circumstances, and so the exact job description is a matter for negotiation between both partners, depending on those circumstances. I don't see why that's so controversial.

Yes, you said you couldn’t understand why people found being at home with their own NT child difficult. When you found it so easy - so easy that you also had a nanny because you couldn’t share the childcare plus housework equally between you and your partner.

Sorry, I don't understand your point? Obviously we couldn't leave dc to fend for herself when we were both out at work? I'm not sure how that particular choice of childcare would have made it any more or less difficult for me to care for dd when the nanny wasn't there?

@AlexaShutUp

If she spent time with a nanny, as well as equally between two parents, it doesn’t seem like she got much time with any of you, there’s only 24 hours in a day.

She had 4 hours a day with the nanny, some of which she slept through when very young. She was with me from 1pm to 7pm every day, and with DH every evening (he used to get home at 5ish). It felt like a good split, though again, I'm not sure why it is relevant.

To be clear, I'm not arguing that I had it harder than anyone else, I was happy with my work life balance. I loved the time that I had with dd and wouldn't have wanted it any other way. That was the most relaxing and enjoyable part of my day.

I'm just saying that I think the role of a SAHP will have differing value to different families, depending on their circumstances, and so the exact job description is a matter for negotiation between both partners, depending on those circumstances. I don't see why that's so controversial.

I agree with you, I think it’s important to see the value in one parent being at home with their own child, and also important to recognise the financial vulnerability of someone who gave up their income to take on that role.

That’s why I’d never say anything like I ‘didn’t see the point in SAHP unless they did the grunt work’ or how easy I found being at home with my one child when that childcare AND housework was actually split three ways, or how I couldn’t understand how people found it difficult.

I think that you should have a think what you want, then ask for it. Be clear if you want some sleep or child free time

Can you have an undisturbed lie in on Sunday morning for a few hours ?
Who takes the dog out for walks at the weekend ?
You get a PT job, so that you get a change of scenery
Can you get the children into bed earlier, say 7pm ?

OK, whatever @Pumperthepumper. I don't really get where you're going with some of the points that you're making.

I personally feel that I wouldn't have seen the point in having a SAHP for our family (whether that had been me or dh) unless that person had been willing to take on the bulk of the domestic load as well as childcare. There would have been little "added value" in our situation. I think it's for every couple to negotiate a division of labour that suits them, rather than a one-size-fits-all approach. And yes, I found it very easy and enjoyable to look after my dd when she was tiny.

You clearly don't agree with me, and you are entitled to your opinion. I am not casting any judgement on what you do, on what you find challenging or on what works for your family.

I think we can agree to disagree.

@AlexaShutUp

OK, whatever *@Pumperthepumper*. I don't really get where you're going with some of the points that you're making.

I personally feel that I wouldn't have seen the point in having a SAHP for our family (whether that had been me or dh) unless that person had been willing to take on the bulk of the domestic load as well as childcare. There would have been little "added value" in our situation. I think it's for every couple to negotiate a division of labour that suits them, rather than a one-size-fits-all approach. And yes, I found it very easy and enjoyable to look after my dd when she was tiny.

You clearly don't agree with me, and you are entitled to your opinion. I am not casting any judgement on what you do, on what you find challenging or on what works for your family.

I think we can agree to disagree.

You can’t judge what I did, because I haven’t said. Because it’s not relevant.

But you absolutely did judge SAHP who don’t take on the grunt work, and anyone who didn’t find being at home with their kids 24/7 as a permanent source of joy, or easy. And my point is - you can’t judge any of that because that situation is alien to you because you split the childcare AND the housework three ways.

But you absolutely did judge SAHP who don’t take on the grunt work, and anyone who didn’t find being at home with their kids 24/7 as a permanent source of joy, or easy.

I haven't judged SAHP who don't take on the grunt work. If it works for them and their families, then that's great. I don't personally see why families would choose that arrangement because it doesn't look very fair to me, but as I am not involved in their situation, my opinion is just that...my opinion. They can do what works for them.

And again, I am not judging people who don't enjoy being at home with their children. I just don't understand why they do it full time if they don't actually like it - unless financially they have no other choice, which I have already acknowledged is a different situation.

@AlexaShutUp

But you absolutely did judge SAHP who don’t take on the grunt work, and anyone who didn’t find being at home with their kids 24/7 as a permanent source of joy, or easy.

I haven't judged SAHP who don't take on the grunt work. If it works for them and their families, then that's great. I don't personally see why families would choose that arrangement because it doesn't look very fair to me, but as I am not involved in their situation, my opinion is just that...my opinion. They can do what works for them.

And again, I am not judging people who don't enjoy being at home with their children. I just don't understand why they do it full time if they don't actually like it - unless financially they have no other choice, which I have already acknowledged is a different situation.

That’s not what you said though. You said you couldn’t understand how people found it difficult when you - with your three-way childcare - found it so easy.

I think there's a balance - you both deserve equal leisure time, and you both share the burden of supporting the family.

The SAHP should be contributing as much as is possible equally to the financial wellbeing of the family - through covering childcare, cleaning, household tasks, being on top of the admin so that there are no penalties for late payments to bill etc.

But I really believe that if you treat your SAHP contribution as a job then you too get a start and end time to your day. Which means equal leisure time (child free) and more equality to evening and weekend chore routines.

How you manage that though is unique to your family. It might be that you always do dinner prep (you're counting that as still on the clock) but washing dishes are divided up between you as an 'after work' chore. Or if you are able to take a break for an exercise class in the middle of the day, or take a couple of hours to read or see a movie, then you might want to do the laundry in the evening as part of your 'work day'.

I'm a SAHM and I expect to do the majority of the housework etc. My husband doesn't have any "set" jobs but when he comes in from work he just does whatever needs to be done at that point. We have 3 kids and he does bedtime for 1 of them, I do the other two. We usually have any tidying up done before kids go to bed but if not we'll both finish it. We sit down to relax at the same time. Weekends are fairly evenly divided although he does spend more time with the children while I do other jobs. He was the SAHP for years before DS2 came along so he knows the lie of the land.

That’s not what you said though. You said you couldn’t understand how people found it difficult when you - with your three-way childcare - found it so easy.

Actually, what I said was that I could understand how the relentlessness and tedium of doing childcare full time might be difficult, but not the actual work of childcare itself. Despite all your little snipes around three-way childcare, I didn't actually have two other people on hand to help me when I was looking after dd, so I'm perfectly familiar with what's involved.

I don't think this sounds awful. I'm currently on maternity leave and expect to do most of the housework and childcare. My husband helps with bins and bottles and bits and pieces on the evenings but I do the majority.

@AlexaShutUp

That’s not what you said though. You said you couldn’t understand how people found it difficult when you - with your three-way childcare - found it so easy.

Actually, what I said was that I could understand how the relentlessness and tedium of doing childcare full time might be difficult, but not the actual work of childcare itself. Despite all your little snipes around three-way childcare, I didn't actually have two other people on hand to help me when I was looking after dd, so I'm perfectly familiar with what's involved.

I think we must all have very different experiences of parenting, because my mind honestly boggles when I read stuff like this. I have done jobs that are immensely demanding (both intellectually and emotionally) and jobs that are pretty easy. I found looking after my small dd easier and more enjoyable than any of them. I do totally accept and respect the fact that some people find it really hard to look after small children, but I won't pretend to understand it.

This was what you said. Still boggled at the thought of people finding it difficult being the sole childcare for their children?

You can’t pretend to understand it because you didn’t do it.

If people are saying that being a SAHP is harder than work because they find it boring or unfulfilling, I can understand that because that was my mother's experience. I thought that they meant the actual work itself was more challenging, which I always found difficult to understand. I guess it depends on your definition of difficult.

@Pumperthepumper, I also said this.

I still don't understand why people find it harder to look after small children than to do a demanding job. The actual work of childcare (bar some exceptional circumstances) is not actually very difficult. I do absolutely understand why some people find full time SAHPing relentless and tedious, but if people feel like that, then I would strongly encourage them to look at ways of managing a return to work. I know from my own experience that being a child at home with a bored, unfulfilled mother is not much fun.

@AlexaShutUp

If people are saying that being a SAHP is harder than work because they find it boring or unfulfilling, I can understand that because that was my mother's experience. I thought that they meant the actual work itself was more challenging, which I always found difficult to understand. I guess it depends on your definition of difficult.

@Pumperthepumper, I also said this.

I still don't understand why people find it harder to look after small children than to do a demanding job. The actual work of childcare (bar some exceptional circumstances) is not actually very difficult. I do absolutely understand why some people find full time SAHPing relentless and tedious, but if people feel like that, then I would strongly encourage them to look at ways of managing a return to work. I know from my own experience that being a child at home with a bored, unfulfilled mother is not much fun.

And you also said that isn’t a lifestyle you would ‘fund’ unless the parent was also doing the housework.

I’m sensing you don’t see being a SAMP as valid or important enough. Certainly not important enough to do it yourself.

Join the club. I am also going back to work, then I can at least insist on equal chores.