Destroying the Planet? I'm sure AIBU and I don't care

[Ivebeeninlockdowntoolong]

Inspired by another thread.

Live as a couple. Have no children and one 6 year old car. Have a 4 bed house which we love. Modest holidays (pre-covid would go abroad twice a year). We try not to be wasteful and recycle.

But please stop telling me we are destroying the planet! Just because we eat red meat and like nice clothes. I'm fed up of people coming out with the "go vegetarian / go vegan" lines. Just go away.

I think not having children trumps most people who are eco-warriors (with children) so on a comparison basis I think we would score quite well re our environmental credentials.

Apart from that, I'm not really bothered by environmental issues as there is naff all I can do to influence the behaviours of other people and especially big powerful conglomerates and governments. We quietly do our "bit" when we're happy to do so as long as it doesn't inconvenience us. I also accept that the Earth has changed a lot in its very long history and inevitably will keep on changing. If the ultimate result is that it changes to become completely hostile for supporting human life, well, so be it. But hey that's probably thousands and thousands of years off and mumsnet will be a dim and distant memory by then.

@Racoonworld

A bit like those who have had three plus children now going on about how people shouldn’t have more than one child. Easy to say when you’ve had your time.

When they say that, try suggesting that they return one of them whence they came...

Perhaps you'd like to share an example? I would not conflate the equality issues I'm thinking of with environmental ones.

Well, the massive and obvious one is that poorer people, women, and people of colour will be the worst affected by climate change, which is brought about by capitalism and the lifestyles of wealthy white people.

Huge issue and ongoing debate. Loads written about it.

@Sprockerdilerock apologies if you have done this - but generally the people who talk about developing countries, poverty and so on tend to be the ones who haven't actually been there and worked with the communities to improve their lives.

I don't particularly care if people became extinct (although I'd rather not be part of the extinction event personally). I don't fly anywhere, don't have a car, recycle and more importantly, try not to overconsume in the first place.

However, whilst I'm not bothered by the principle of human extinction, I don't feel the same way towards the other lifeforms on the planet. It's not their fault we're so keen on shitting in others' back yards. So I do think we should do more (or have less) to ensure they are in a position to take over and get along quite nicely once we're busy forming just another layer in the fossil record.

@Hamhockandmash actually no, my year has been boring, dull and at times stressful.....but in the great scheme of things it has not been as tough as it has been for a lot of people in this world. It's called empathy.

@Theunamedcat

I think after all these years and all these campaigns my veg should not be coming in non recyclable packaging my fruit should be free who the fuck needs those nets? Its not me why thirty plus years after saying they are a problem are they STILL on my oranges this was known when I was at school im forty fucking six years old and we have only "just" done "something" about plastic bags double wrapped cucumber? Why? Where is the need? Wash it its fucking dirty under the wrapping anyway

Its supermarkets and food supply that is an issue but as we all need to eat nothing gets done we just accept it

But oranges are available loose too. If everyone stopped buying the netted ones then the supermarkets would stop selling them.

It always annoys me that the Fairtrade bananas always come bagged in plastic though. We're left with a choice of doing people over or doing the ecosystem over.

If you don’t care, then why bother posting?

@Parky04

Must admit, I don't give a rats arse about the environment. I drive a petrol car, I eat meat, fly around 6 times a year. I have a gas boiler. Life is tough, so I'm going to enjoy myself as much as I can, and as cheaply as I can. When mother nature has decided that she has had enough of us, then fair play to her.

I can't see that life is so tough for you if you can afford all of those luxuries. Have you no idea of what hardship really means?

[quote SecretSpAD]@Sprockerdilerock apologies if you have done this - but generally the people who talk about developing countries, poverty and so on tend to be the ones who haven't actually been there and worked with the communities to improve their lives. [/quote]
Why do you need to have been somewhere to give a shit?

Communities in developing countries dont just need rich white Westerners going over there to 'help' (look up the pitfalls of voluntourism online for more on that), they need us to stop fucking up the planet with our consumism and exploiting them for the sake of our nice lifestyles.

**consumerism

So you didn’t have children because of the planet?
Or is it the case that you just didn’t have children for some other reason and now feel that you are exempt from conscious consumption?
Not that anyone cares really, it’s mostly just empty talk for people to feel superior to others...I just find it ridiculous that you use the circumstantial fact that you are childless to absolve yourself from the responsibility.

I think we do enough. I don't want to be vegan.

Notalways who works in climate gave a list. Which I found odd.

What about the biggest culprits? Oil and gas and huge companies.
What % is their contribution?
Huge.
Whereas anything we all do makes minimal minimal difference % wise.

Have Greenpeace or similar orifices a list of what makes the most difference/who are the worst offenders. I've never seen one.

@SecretSpAD that makes no sense. You’ve said the environment can suffer because of the last year, but there are people around the world who suffer every day because of our environmental choices, and future generations who are currently suffering from eco anxiety at their own futures.

Other people’s lives are shaped by our environmental choices and often not well.

I had hope before the pandemic but some people were incapable of changing their behaviour to keep themselves safe from covid so it's starting to feel hopeless now.

Politicians want to achieve goals within their presidency etc and don't seem interested in goals that would be reached long after their death.

@DdraigGoch

Not near me i went to tescos all in bags aldi the same Morrisons the same we dont have a proper fruit and veg shop anymore even our "decent" butchers closed down (for faking meat weights) so we either buy from the supermarket or the one with the massive fly problem vegetarian food is only good if your children eat it and mine will not eat it yes they have special needs yes they will starve I have one good eater out of all of them all raised the same all totally different

I know what you mean OP. I care about the planet, but with a busy job and young fussy children, some of the changes are hard to make (if we went vegan the kids would starve rather than live on veg and beans) and I end up just feeling depressed and guilty which doesn't help anyone.

Your post also made me think of this:

@DdraigGoch Sainsburys do them loose as well.

Saving the world one banana at a time....

Yeah, it's annoying.

In any case, veganism in most modelling is not more efficient. As any subsistence farmers would tell you. So there's that.

The other issue is that if people want to really take living sustainably seriously, pretty much noone living in anything like a conventional western lifestyle meets the bar, and most don't even acknowledge it. So chances are most of the complainers are no better really.

I'm pinning all my hopes on them genetically engineering a massive tree that sucks in tons of whatever gases it is that we don't want (it's not co2 from what I recall) and chucks out loads of oxygen. Plant one in each continent (it's a big tree) and bobs your uncle. And perhaps genetically modifying other plants so we can burn them as fuel but they don't release bad stuff. Yes, behold my scientific knowledge.

If everywhere is used to plant vegetables then there wouldn't be enough room for bio fuels and other things. I don't think it is realistic

@woodhill

If everywhere is used to plant vegetables then there wouldn't be enough room for bio fuels and other things. I don't think it is realistic

There isn't enough room anyway.

Forget the evil baby boomers, it's the other generations that will cause greater harm in a far more catastrophic way by selfishly living in this way. Who cares what happens to the next generations?

Yes, rubbish! I couldn't agree more - why don't people take it home or dispose of it properly? What mentality have they got that it doesn't occur to them how unpleasant discarded rubbish is for everyone else (but will happily bang on about climate change)

Just a tad hypocritical of you to "rubbish shame" people..

[quote Theunamedcat]@DdraigGoch

Not near me i went to tescos all in bags aldi the same Morrisons the same we dont have a proper fruit and veg shop anymore even our "decent" butchers closed down (for faking meat weights) so we either buy from the supermarket or the one with the massive fly problem vegetarian food is only good if your children eat it and mine will not eat it yes they have special needs yes they will starve I have one good eater out of all of them all raised the same all totally different[/quote]
On the subject of meat, I'm sure that Morrisons (before the pandemic at least) would let you use your own containers for meat and fish.