Reporting your son

[Aqua55]

Looking at the rape culture in schools, and having a 7 month ds myself, i was wondering how many parents would report their school aged sons to the Police if they suspected or knew that they had committed a sexual assault.

[daffodilsandprimroses]

Fair enough, I’m often feeding ds when on here so I do miss stuff!

[waterlego]

Understandable daffodils!

[Ivalueloyaltyaboveallelse]

I would like to think I would, I have sons but I’m really not sure. Hopefully I never have to find out. I think I’d always support and believe my DS first until I was faced with solid hard evidence. Gosh reading that back I’m really shocked at myself but its the truth

[JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]

@waterlego

Has anyone actually said ‘no matter what they did’, though?

A couple of posters have said exactly that *@daffodilsandprimroses*. Those were the posts I found really surprising! IIRC, one poster even said they would not report repeated offences.

Yes, I mean it's hard to refer to which ones as so many posts have been deleted now but there were at least 2 saying they wouldn't report them for anything - one who said anybody who did report their sons should have "social services on speed dial"

[JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]

@ancientgran wow you are really splitting hairs now. What a randomly specific example. But seeing as you asked, I don't teach my children "an eye for an eye" so no I still wouldn't support my son having done that in retaliation. I'd still fully expect the school to punish him.

I teach teenagers and have never known girls to pull boys' boxers (other boys do though). However Barely a week goes by where I'm not sending a boy to the Head for pinging a girl's bra strap, or telling her she just "needs a good shag" or asking her if she does anal, or wolf whistling when she bends over to pick up her school bag. If it's ever in "retaliation" it's retaliating to something she's said - usually her simply asserting her boundaries - not something she's done

I'm not buying, nor will ever buy, that boys experience sexual harrasment from girls at a fraction of the same level as girls do from boys.

[Imfinallyhappy1]

Being a rape survivor myself and having a son and daughter. I would absolutely report it. I would ask for the harshest punishment and I would stand by his victim. That is because I love him and making sure he faces his punishment head on is a result of my love.

[JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]

@daffodilsandprimroses

I’m sorry you went through that every but no one has condoned it. No one.

@daffodilsandprimroses it isn't an accident that when so many women experience sexual violence, conviction rates are less than 1%. We live in a victim blaming society, where the norm is to believe the man and paint the victim as a liar. Despite hard evidence showing view few rapes and sexual assaults are falsely reported. That kind of norm survives because it is propped up by families, authorities, systems and individuals who will support perpetrators to the bitter end. Now imagine if every single human being who subscribes to that changed their attitude and refused to accept that norm from anybody - a real no-nonsense approach where victims are believed and perpetrators vilified. The domino effect would mean conviction rates would soar and instances of sexual violence would reduce.

If you are the type of person who'd protect their son if they committed sexual violence, you are part of the problem. You're not different from anybody else who props up that norm. Even if you never have to physically go through the process of protecting your son, your attitude feeds into a society which refuses to help women, and just because it would only apply to your son it doesn't make it any different from anyone else.

So yes, anyone who would protect their son is very much condoning sexual violence against women.

[JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]

@Imfinallyhappy1 good post - I don't know why posters here think loving your child means never making them face the consequences of their actions

[Notoriouslynotnotious]

That is because I love him and making sure he faces his punishment head on is a result of my love.

@Imfinallyhappy1 that is what people don’t realise that by saving their child from their due suffering they are stunting their growth and development. Enabling abusive behaviour actually damages abusers because they are saved from the consequences of their actions instead of having to face on what they have done and learn from the experience. I take @daffodilsandprimroses point about the criminal justice system serving only as a punitive system rather than rehabilitating perpetrators but doing nothing and let’s face it that is what a number of posters are promoting as a solution to this behaviour in their sons, is the worst of all outcomes as it allows the behaviour to grow as worsen as happened in my brother’s case for example. For abuse to proliferate which it does it takes abusers, enablers and victims and the world is absolutely full of all 3.

[daffodilsandprimroses]

Be fair james you’ve listed a few specific examples yourself

[DinosApple]

It is hypothetical really, but I would report if I was certain. My conscience would not allow me to do nothing. I don't have sons, but two daughters.

I don't see how protecting our children from the consequence of their actions would help. Even if it was just from a selfish standpoint, if my child had raped/sexually assaulted someone I might think what can I do to help them. Reporting would lead to some sort of rehabilitation even if there was a sentence too. That would help them.
Burying it help no one.

There's a woman locally who narrowly avoided going to jail for beating up her (teen) daughter's rapist. The ex boyfriend was not convicted.

Whilst I would encourage my child to report, I can absolutely understand the lack of faith in conviction rates and the police, and the additional stress and trauma to the victim that would lead to a mother giving a 20 year old man a proper pasting. If I'm honest I admire her for it.

[MistyGreenAndBlue]

I don't have a son so I cant say for certain. While I might assume that I would feel the same love and urge to protect as I do for my daughter it is not a given is it? Mothers do treat sons and daughters differently all the time.

What I do know, for absolute certain is that my mother would protect my brother no matter what. But her stance would not come from a place of protecting him no matter what he had done, but rather from a place of complete denial.
She wouldn't believe him guilty on the evidence of three gods and a confession signed in his own blood.
Conversely I think she would defend me against a charge of mass homicide while believing utterly that I did it. Whether I did or not.

I'd like to believe I would turn a son in if he did such a thing. The plain truth is, I don't know.

[LexMitior]

[quote JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]@ancientgran wow you are really splitting hairs now. What a randomly specific example. But seeing as you asked, I don't teach my children "an eye for an eye" so no I still wouldn't support my son having done that in retaliation. I'd still fully expect the school to punish him.

I teach teenagers and have never known girls to pull boys' boxers (other boys do though). However Barely a week goes by where I'm not sending a boy to the Head for pinging a girl's bra strap, or telling her she just "needs a good shag" or asking her if she does anal, or wolf whistling when she bends over to pick up her school bag. If it's ever in "retaliation" it's retaliating to something she's said - usually her simply asserting her boundaries - not something she's done

I'm not buying, nor will ever buy, that boys experience sexual harrasment from girls at a fraction of the same level as girls do from boys.[/quote]
Christ. I’d expell them for this stuff. I wouldn’t expect a grown man to speak to me like that as a woman, and why should my children have to have a lesser standard than me?

All this means is that those who don’t accept this and push back have better lives. The apologists will raise children who are either conditioned to accept it or worse. And they will not report it because they think it is not serious enough or not a real crime.

It’s like two parallel worlds. I’m going for the one which says no, and engages with the law, not some girls deal with it scenario which is goes to all other sorts of nastiness towards women.

[ancientgran]

[quote JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]@ancientgran wow you are really splitting hairs now. What a randomly specific example. But seeing as you asked, I don't teach my children "an eye for an eye" so no I still wouldn't support my son having done that in retaliation. I'd still fully expect the school to punish him.

I teach teenagers and have never known girls to pull boys' boxers (other boys do though). However Barely a week goes by where I'm not sending a boy to the Head for pinging a girl's bra strap, or telling her she just "needs a good shag" or asking her if she does anal, or wolf whistling when she bends over to pick up her school bag. If it's ever in "retaliation" it's retaliating to something she's said - usually her simply asserting her boundaries - not something she's done

I'm not buying, nor will ever buy, that boys experience sexual harrasment from girls at a fraction of the same level as girls do from boys.[/quote]
What about boys? What if it is the boy who is assaulted? Just because more girls are doesn't mean you ignore the fraction of the number of boys. Maybe try treating them all as people rather than fixating on if they are male or female.

You seem to hate boys. You can't even bring yourself to accept a boy could retaliate, but you are making excuses for a girl doing it.

As to a randomly specific example, you asked and I answered obviously it is going to be random.

[UnsureOfNC]

My mum did, it happened to be my brother abusing me. As soon as she found out we went straight to the police station and she reported it. Not sure where she found the strength that day but i will always be grateful she never once doubted me

[EveryDayIsADuvetDay]

@waterlego

Has anyone actually said ‘no matter what they did’, though?

A couple of posters have said exactly that *@daffodilsandprimroses*. Those were the posts I found really surprising! IIRC, one poster even said they would not report repeated offences.

thanks for answering that one Waterlego; I saw daffodil's question late last night and didn't have the energy to go through the thread for examples.
That was the point of my rather extreme "what would you do if your son raped you" post - to try and establish exactly what these women would excuse, and whether they do have any red lines /morals at all

[SparklingStars10]

@MistyGreenAndBlue - Mothers don’t treat sons and daughters differently, I don’t treat myn any different, just because they are different sexes.

[JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]

@ancientgran

What about boys? What if it is the boy who is assaulted? Just because more girls are doesn't mean you ignore the fraction of the number of boys. Maybe try treating them all as people rather than fixating on if they are male or female.

Of course it's relevant what sex they are!

Boys are 99.9% of the time IME assaulted by other boys. And of course I take it seriously. Not sure why you assume I wouldn't

You seem to hate boys. You can't even bring yourself to accept a boy could retaliate, but you are making excuses for a girl doing it.

I hate boys because I've pointed out how badly many behave towards girls? Ok.

It's absolutely fine to retaliate with words, like I've said girls usually do. NOT to retaliate with sexual harrasment. If for example a girl grabbed a boys crotch in retaliation she absolutely would be sent to the Head. But it doesn't happen.

Very telling that you think retaliating with words is as bad as being sexually harrassed.

As to a randomly specific example, you asked and I answered obviously it is going to be random.

I don't think I did ask for a random unlikely example but ok I still cannot believe you think lunging a bra strap would be ok as long as a boy was retaliating. Seriously hope you do not have sons.

[JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]

@LexMitior sadly some parents of boys who ask girls if they want to have anal sex etc will defend their little Prince to the hilt and pass it off as banter, and "she's obviously just sensitive". Much like the posters on this thread that are horrified that some of us won't stand for VAWG, they are shit parents raising boys to be complicit in sexual harassment and abuse of women, but think that the paramount parenting skill is sticking up for your child no matter how vile they've been, and therefore think they're great parents. Sad and laughable at the same time

[SparklingStars10]

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows - That is pretty shocking behaviour. I have both sexes and would not like my daughter being subjected to that at all. My son is nearly 15 and he has managed to get through school without showing any of these behaviours. He has a few female friends who he gets on well with and he’s always spoken of them with respect and one of them routinely confides in him via what’s app. I hope I’ve done enough to raise my son to be a gentleman and respect girls/women throughout his life.

[JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]

@SparklingStars10 I'm pleased to hear it - and I'd also like to point out that the majority of my male pupils are lovely and respectful towards the girls. Many even call out the bad behaviour of their male peers. However too many behave poorly and it's detrimental to all girls in the school. It's horrendous and it feels like far worse than it was when I was at school

[MistyGreenAndBlue]

[quote SparklingStars10]@MistyGreenAndBlue - Mothers don’t treat sons and daughters differently, I don’t treat myn any different, just because they are different sexes.[/quote]
Good for you. There are, however, several examples on this very thread showing that it does happen.
Including my own mother.

[ancientgran]

[quote JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]@ancientgran

What about boys? What if it is the boy who is assaulted? Just because more girls are doesn't mean you ignore the fraction of the number of boys. Maybe try treating them all as people rather than fixating on if they are male or female.

Of course it's relevant what sex they are!

Boys are 99.9% of the time IME assaulted by other boys. And of course I take it seriously. Not sure why you assume I wouldn't

You seem to hate boys. You can't even bring yourself to accept a boy could retaliate, but you are making excuses for a girl doing it.

I hate boys because I've pointed out how badly many behave towards girls? Ok.

It's absolutely fine to retaliate with words, like I've said girls usually do. NOT to retaliate with sexual harrasment. If for example a girl grabbed a boys crotch in retaliation she absolutely would be sent to the Head. But it doesn't happen.

Very telling that you think retaliating with words is as bad as being sexually harrassed.

As to a randomly specific example, you asked and I answered obviously it is going to be random.

I don't think I did ask for a random unlikely example but ok I still cannot believe you think lunging a bra strap would be ok as long as a boy was retaliating. Seriously hope you do not have sons. [/quote]
I have children (grown up) of both sexes. Never had a problem at school with the boys, they were well behaved and never had any problems with other boys. My DD was horrifically bullied by a group of girls, verbal and physical abuse. The verbal had longer lasting effects, 20 years on there are still scars. The boys in her class were great and did their best to support her. Her teacher was of the mind that boys were always in the wrong and girls who were misbehaving needed support as they were unhappy. So my daughter was constantly told she had to forgive them and understand their problems.

So yes I have a problem with teachers who jump to the conclusion that boys are always in the wrong. Till my dying day I will hate that teacher and blame her for the psychological damage she condoned, even seemed to encourage at times, you know we have to bring the bright ones down. I caused as much trouble as I could for her with Head teacher, EWO and governors. If I could have got her barred from teaching I would have without hesitation.

[TheWordWomanIsTaken]

@Itsalonghaul

biff and just so you know you can't be charged with rape without a penis! Most girls do not have penises.

Derailing but NO girls have penises.

[Itsalonghaul]

Theword True, but I like to keep things general