Double standards on mn.

[thatwasme22]

This week so far:

1. I have seen various posters defend Caroline Flack for having issues. Maybe she did but then the same argument would not be made on Chris Browne.

1. A thread on the physical attractiveness on male politicians. Imagine a male forum did this on females.

1. A thread with a woman hiding her inheritance from her husband and encouraged to do so by many posters and him being called financially abusive for being sensible over money. When men do this on mn it's all ltb.

Am I missing something? I call myself a feminist so am pro equality and that's how I raised my kids but why is this not being called out on mn?

Why are you women being mean? You're not allowed to have opinions or dislike anyone based on your own experiences. Especially if it's negative towards men! It's unpleasant. Who do you think you are. Get back in your boxes. It wasn't like this in the 1950s. You women make being a man a hard. Boys shouldn't grow up under pressure to treat people right. They shouldn't have to worry about getting into trouble for harrassing females. They shouldn't have to answer for their actions. They speak, you listen. Got it? They should get rewarded for bringing in money and doing the dishes! Not made to go without sex. Not pulled up on their shitty behaviour. Do you not realise how your attitude towards them affects their mental health? Now be good girls and shh.

/sarcasm

@BadNomad

Why are you women being mean? You're not allowed to have opinions or dislike anyone based on your own experiences. Especially if it's negative towards men! It's unpleasant. Who do you think you are. Get back in your boxes. It wasn't like this in the 1950s. You women make being a man a hard. Boys shouldn't grow up under pressure to treat people right. They shouldn't have to worry about getting into trouble for harrassing females. They shouldn't have to answer for their actions. They speak, you listen. Got it? They should get rewarded for bringing in money and doing the dishes! Not made to go without sex. Not pulled up on their shitty behaviour. Do you not realise how your attitude towards them affects their mental health? Now be good girls and shh.

/sarcasm

Very clever. Well done you. Except I think none of those things.

@LolaSmiles

No, we don't want to debate with arrogant unpleasant posters. If really is that simple. That would be a logical argument, if those posters weren't regularly on threads about sexism and misogyny chipping away with the mean women who are apparently arrogant and unpleasant. Surely either: A) The issues affecting men are so important (fwiw i think they are) to you that you, and others, would be desperate to start your own threads to explore the issues B) The women on the other side are so unpleasant they don't want to talk to them, in which case why regularly show up doing the same old whataboutery NAMALT stuff?

Not wanting threads to explore important issues because of mean women being aggressive doesn't work as a claim if those posters regularly spend time goading women who want to discuss sexism.

Mmm

Except if you look at the tedious interactions between pumper and I, I'm not the goader.

@Butwasitherdriveway

You literally remind me of a child who is told no to joining in in something and says 'irs because il beat you, hahaha'. It's really quite embarrassing on your part . Do you usually continue to harangue people who have made it clear they don't want to speak to you?

I mean... you're doing a lot of speaking for someone who has made it clear they don't want to speak to you?

Except if you look at the tedious interactions between pumper and I, I'm not the goader

And yet, here you are again. Goading. Because that’s the only contribution you can make here.

Except if you look at the tedious interactions between pumper and I, I'm not the goader
You're doing a good job of shifting the goalposts and avoiding the central issue.

If you (and many other whataboutmen posters) apparently care about some of the very real issues affecting men, such as male suicide and men's mental health, how come the this care is usually brought up when women are talking about the effect of systemic sexism on women, when another thread dedicated to discussing the issue would be much more productive and effective in raising awareness?

So far you seems to be avoiding this by saying:
-But the aggressive women shut us down (aka women discussing women's sex based oppression want to keep the focus on that topic and not spend pages being told off for not adequately centering men)
-But we don't want to talk to arrogant and unpleasant posters (despite whataboutmen posters regularly trying to hijack other threads and goad women discussing sex based oppression, which is a bit odd for people who apparently want to avoid talking to arrogant and unpleasant women on the 'other side')
-But look at Pumper, Pumper is a meanie

None of which explain why NAMALT/whataboutmen posters seem to care so much about issues affecting men that they need to man-rail other discussions regularly, but don't want to start threads talking about the issues they apparently care a great deal about.

I've seen women say things about men on here that men would never get away with saying about women. I even saw one such example on the first page of this thread.

@INB4

I've seen women say things about men on here that men would never get away with saying about women. I even saw one such example on the first page of this thread.

Can you quote it?

Don't need a pile on @PADH. If you can find where I've answered the numerous questions asked by pumper I'd love to see it.

Why random posters jump in to gang up is beyond me.

@INB4, I would agree with you wholeheartedly based on many threads where sentences go unchallenged.

Lola, you make some good points but we've had that conversation so many times. You almost seem to be suggesting that a thread around women should be an echo chamber and then threads on men should be the same. It seems an odd way for a discussion forum to operate.

@Pumperthepumper

'OP, you're defending men. But they're indefensible. Knowing the odd one who seems to be a reasonably decent sort doesn't mean the patriarchy has nothing to answer for.'

Nice to know that half the human population is 'indefensible'. A man saying the same thing about women would be labelled a misogynist.

[quote INB4]@Pumperthepumper

'OP, you're defending men. But they're indefensible. Knowing the odd one who seems to be a reasonably decent sort doesn't mean the patriarchy has nothing to answer for.'

Nice to know that half the human population is 'indefensible'. A man saying the same thing about women would be labelled a misogynist.[/quote]
That post has already been discussed though. It doesn’t mean all men, it means the problems with the patriarchy don’t end because you know a good man.

Did you respond to it? Have you reported it?

[quote INB4]@Pumperthepumper

'OP, you're defending men. But they're indefensible. Knowing the odd one who seems to be a reasonably decent sort doesn't mean the patriarchy has nothing to answer for.'

Nice to know that half the human population is 'indefensible'. A man saying the same thing about women would be labelled a misogynist.[/quote]
There are many, many comments along those lines and then posters will claim they've never said it's all men.

I wouldn't like to label anyone as by my recollection the PP responsible is on this thread but someone once posted the male suicide rate as an evidence that they are all violent, even to themselves.

Could you actually imagine if we posted something similar about women ? Given that we know they are on the whole murdered by someone they know?

That’s true though - the reason men’s suicide rates are so high is because men generally choose more violent methods. That’s an absolute fact, and it’s a fact male suicide charities recognise and work with.

Again, a startling amount of ignorance on an issue you claim to care about.

Lola, you make some good points but we've had that conversation so many times. You almost seem to be suggesting that a thread around women should be an echo chamber and then threads on men should be the same. It seems an odd way for a discussion forum to operate.
Absolutely not, what a bizarre conclusion that again misses the point.

I'm saying that when women are discussing issues affecting women, they should be able to have them without posters trying to derail and hijack by saying 'but what about men...' Posters showing up to centre discussions about women's sex based oppression on men aren't doing so because they care about issues affecting men, otherwise they'd be starting threads themselves about the issues they care about. They're doing it to try and prevent the mean/nasty/arrogant/unpleasant/toxic/(insert other adjective here to dismiss women having strong feelings about sexism and misogyny) women having a discussion.

Equally, if the posters who are as passionate about issues affecting men as they claim, they could start threads to discuss those issues, instead of trying to shut women up by telling them to focus more on men.

Nothing about an echo chamber, everything about important issues being discussed properly.

Plus if all these women are so arrogant, nasty, unpleasant etc that these posters don't want to engage with them (because that's apparently why threads about issues affecting men aren't started), then there is zero need to try and man-rail other threads as that's surely going out of their way to be inflammatory towards the very people that are apparently so intimidating and mean that the whataboutmen posters don't want to engage. It makes no sense.

Although I don’t believe someone posted it as evidence they’re all violent, even to themselves because that would be ridiculous.

@Pumperthepumper

That’s true though - the reason men’s suicide rates are so high is because men generally choose more violent methods. That’s an absolute fact, and it’s a fact male suicide charities recognise and work with.

Again, a startling amount of ignorance on an issue you claim to care about.

I know that fact . I'm not being ignorant.

My point is saying 'theyre even violent to themselves ' is a pretty disgusting comment and wouldn't be made about women choosing abusive men despite the fact we know the risk of this.

It is never, ever Ok to use something like that as an argument. But thanks for confirming my recall that it was you who said it.

@Pumperthepumper

Although I don’t believe someone posted it as evidence they’re all violent, even to themselves because that would be ridiculous.

Their exact words were 'see, men are even violent to themselves'. I remember as it was so startling. Would you like to tell me how you think I've interpreted that wrongly pumper?

@LolaSmiles

Lola, you make some good points but we've had that conversation so many times. You almost seem to be suggesting that a thread around women should be an echo chamber and then threads on men should be the same. It seems an odd way for a discussion forum to operate. Absolutely not, what a bizarre conclusion that again misses the point.

I'm saying that when women are discussing issues affecting women, they should be able to have them without posters trying to derail and hijack by saying 'but what about men...' Posters showing up to centre discussions about women's sex based oppression on men aren't doing so because they care about issues affecting men, otherwise they'd be starting threads themselves about the issues they care about. They're doing it to try and prevent the mean/nasty/arrogant/unpleasant/toxic/(insert other adjective here to dismiss women having strong feelings about sexism and misogyny) women having a discussion.

Equally, if the posters who are as passionate about issues affecting men as they claim, they could start threads to discuss those issues, instead of trying to shut women up by telling them to focus more on men.

Nothing about an echo chamber, everything about important issues being discussed properly.

Plus if all these women are so arrogant, nasty, unpleasant etc that these posters don't want to engage with them (because that's apparently why threads about issues affecting men aren't started), then there is zero need to try and man-rail other threads as that's surely going out of their way to be inflammatory towards the very people that are apparently so intimidating and mean that the whataboutmen posters don't want to engage. It makes no sense.

I feel like that's the exact post you out up before with words just a wee bit different

Their exact words were 'see, men are even violent to themselves'. I remember as it was so startling. Would you like to tell me how you think I've interpreted that wrongly pumper?

Post it and we’ll see.

It is never, ever Ok to use something like that as an argument. But thanks for confirming my recall that it was you who said it.

It was me who said it? Bullshit. Post it.

@Pumperthepumper

It is never, ever Ok to use something like that as an argument. But thanks for confirming my recall that it was you who said it.

It was me who said it? Bullshit. Post it.

I thought it was. If I knew what thread it was and when I'd look. You're so demanding.

I feel like that's the exact post you out up before with words just a wee bit different
Yes because you missed the point, dare I suggest quite deliberately because it's a way to avoid the obvious contradiction at the heart of many butwhataboutthemen posters.

If these posters cared so much about very serious issues that affect men, then they could start a thread about them and an interesting discussion could follow. Unfortunately they choose not to, and instead feel the need to try and centre women discussing women's oppression on men.

You seem to think that having a range of threads where important issues can be discussed equals creating an echo chamber, when it doesn't. It simply gives all important issues space to be discussed.

Which brings us nicely back to the questions:
Why would certain posters want to repeatedly try to use their apparent concern about men's issues to centre men on threads about women's oppression whilst not caring enough to start threads where these very valid topics can be discussed in detail?
Why would some posters claim they can't start discussions about important issues affecting men because the women on the other side are so mean they don't want to engage with them, whilst regularly joining threads to tell the meanie women off for not centring men?
🤔

It's the internet and sadly people make up all kinds of rubbish on here. Plus there is not the filter of visual clues when you are posting online rather than talking face to face, so people can be quite mean.

I thought it was. If I knew what thread it was and when I'd look. You're so demanding.

You remember it word for word and you remember it was me but you can’t remember the thread?

@LolaSmiles

I feel like that's the exact post you out up before with words just a wee bit different Yes because you missed the point, dare I suggest quite deliberately because it's a way to avoid the obvious contradiction at the heart of many butwhataboutthemen posters.

If these posters cared so much about very serious issues that affect men, then they could start a thread about them and an interesting discussion could follow. Unfortunately they choose not to, and instead feel the need to try and centre women discussing women's oppression on men.

You seem to think that having a range of threads where important issues can be discussed equals creating an echo chamber, when it doesn't. It simply gives all important issues space to be discussed.

Which brings us nicely back to the questions:
Why would certain posters want to repeatedly try to use their apparent concern about men's issues to centre men on threads about women's oppression whilst not caring enough to start threads where these very valid topics can be discussed in detail?
Why would some posters claim they can't start discussions about important issues affecting men because the women on the other side are so mean they don't want to engage with them, whilst regularly joining threads to tell the meanie women off for not centring men?
🤔

Why do you and pumper keep saying apparent concern? As if I don't actually care about these issues? (Apart from the fact thats the only reason pumper can come up with why I don't want to answer her line of questioning) that would be odd behaviour indeed.

But my point is, if I was to start a thread about male mental health or whatever (not sure what about, given that it's a fact and I'm not sure what could be debated), I woulxnt have an issue with people bringing women in. And if I started a thread making ridiculous wide sweeping statements about women, I would sure as hell expect people to challenge that.

I don't understand why people maintain they can't possibly understand what we mean by double standards and outrageous posts towards men on this site. It must be lovely in that world.