Argument with husband over using public.toilets

[Mother40]

My husband has been very cautious during the pandemic (I have been cautious but I think he has been over the top). I do avoid using public toilets unless necessary, and would often go behind a busy on a walk rather than use them right now. However, it is my.period right now, so would obviously not want to go behind a bush. In the car I mentioned I might have to use the public toilets. My husband said I should.have.said this before.we.went, and should not be going a walk if I had to use the toilets. This turned into a huge argument and we ended up.only doing half the walk. I feel really angry that he would.cause a big argument over something so silly. I'm sure most people would.use public toilets right now if they had to but he is making me.feel like I'm totally In the wrong and like with most argument we.have will not back down.

@Gwenhwyfar

"Communal toilets are a particular area of concern wrt the virus."

Evidence that it's a 'hotbed of transmission'?

I didn't say 'hotbed of transmission', I said 'particular area of concern' as it is often the only indoor bit of a day trip out/visit to venue and thought that is where a significant number caught it.

Basically confined space with limited ventilation and multiple users = viral spread.

There is no point asking for evidence as our test and trace doesn't attempt to identify where people caught it, unlike the countries who have dealt with Covid more effectively.

@Mother40

I don't know how to get through this when he won't back down and is still convinced he.is.right, and i'm definitely not going to back down. Will be a great Easter holiday.

I would ask him to explain his concerns. Why doesn't he want you to use the toilet? What infection risk not controlled by handwashing is he afraid of? Why does he think his risk is reduced by him not being there (assuming you're living together) ?

Tell him that you refuse to have your toilet habits dictated and that he should just assume that when you're out and about you will use public facilities. If he expects an announcement about this before every walk then he'll be disappointed.

If he expects you to change your toilet habits to accommodate his anxiety then he needs mental health support

We are not using them either, washing hands only gets rid of surface germs. Given it’s mainly respiratory and usually an enclosed space, I’d rather avoid them. It’s not an issue though as local walks don’t have any and not in a rush to go back to attractions and shopping when they can reopen.

There is no point asking for evidence as our test and trace doesn't attempt to identify where people caught it, unlike the countries who have dealt with Covid more effectively.
So can you link evidence from other countries then @Doyoumindfisithere ?

Or is this literally just your personal opinion? If so that's fine but stop presenting it as fact when you have literally no idea where or when anyone has caught the virus - the same people in toilets on day trips are also at the supermarket/kids at school/at work etc.

@Gwenhwyfar

"Covid is spread when you flush a loo? What? confusedhmm

Unfortunately yes here’s a link to a reputable news source www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53047819"

That reputable news source gives NO examples of anyone catching coronavirus from a flushing toilet. It's hypothetical. Flushing toilets with no lid disperses tiny bits of poo all over the room as well, but life goes on.

It is disingenuous to complain about it being hypothetical - in the UK with our test and trace, how would you get evidence of where someone caught it?

We only have the theory to go on.

There is no definitive evidence of people catching cholera at the pump, doesn't mean it wasn't correct: www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2019/john-snow-memorial-pump-marking-historic-cholera-outbreak-reinstalled-its

What does he think happens in a work environment then. I’ve worked the majority of the pandemic so therefore whilst at work have had to use toilets that are also used by other colleagues.

He sounds dreadful.

@Mother40

I would normally prefer to go behind a bush right now and don't think its unhygeinic in the countryside, but if necessary to use a toilet, as it is now, am prepared to take that tiny risk. We do have children, who were there whilst we were having this discussion/arguament. I do worry what effect these kinds.of things will have on them, especially when my 8 year old copies him by.saying "yes mummy you shouldn't be.using public toilets"! God knows why my husband thinks its ok at school. I think of it wasn't for the children I would be having serious thoughts about this marriage, but its hard as a SAHM with children and do feel.a bit stuck in the situation at the moment. It makes it harder as these kinds of.things only happen occasionally, its not like we are.always arguing.

You might not always be arguing, but I'm afraid I don't like the sound of this. I mean, anxiety can do all sorts of things to people, but for him to become such a twat requires various other things to be in place, such as a sense of entitlement to treat you like a toddler.

This kind of behaviour reminds me an awful lot of my first husband, and unfortunately it doesn't get better with time and you are right to be concerned about the effect on the kids. Sorry OP, I wish I could wave a wand and fix the situation for you but there is no easy way out.

@Mother40

I would normally prefer to go behind a bush right now and don't think its unhygeinic in the countryside, but if necessary to use a toilet, as it is now, am prepared to take that tiny risk. We do have children, who were there whilst we were having this discussion/arguament. I do worry what effect these kinds.of things will have on them, especially when my 8 year old copies him by.saying "yes mummy you shouldn't be.using public toilets"! God knows why my husband thinks its ok at school. I think of it wasn't for the children I would be having serious thoughts about this marriage, but its hard as a SAHM with children and do feel.a bit stuck in the situation at the moment. It makes it harder as these kinds of.things only happen occasionally, its not like we are.always arguing.

The more concerning thing here is that your 8 year old thinks it's ok to try and belittle and control you. You and your husband are teaching your children very unhealthy relationship patterns

Everyone should wash their hands after using the toilet even during ‘normal’ times so he’s being a bit crazy, if you wash your hands you have nothing to worry about.

@Veterinari

There is no point asking for evidence as our test and trace doesn't attempt to identify where people caught it, unlike the countries who have dealt with Covid more effectively. So can you link evidence from other countries then *@Doyoumindfisithere* ?

Or is this literally just your personal opinion? If so that's fine but stop presenting it as fact when you have literally no idea where or when anyone has caught the virus - the same people in toilets on day trips are also at the supermarket/kids at school/at work etc.

OK, why are you so angry?

If you read the actual words I used, I said it was an area of concern (it is) and that it is thought people did catch it in toilets (it is thought that).

People get so cross, I am sorry if you don't understand what I am posting, but that isn't a reason to get angry.

I've heard it all now! Seriously - you've done absolutely nothing wrong. If you need to go, you need to go - end of. It's hardly a matter for debate or discussion. I'd be telling him to f* off and grow up... I certainly wouldn't pander to any sulks or attitudes. And in future, if you need to go, just go. No discussion... you're not asking permission! If he turns around and strops off, then let him - you carry on with your walk or whatever (make sure you have a phone, keys, money so you can get home) - and don't even engage in any discussion or argument about it. It's his issue - not yours. You're a grown woman attending to basic needs. If he thinks he has any say over that then you've got bigger problems than the loo!

Yep, my DH is the same. And he's not controlling, he's just super paranoid about Covid. We've had similar arguments, and in fact don't go for long walks at all, only in range of the house so we can get back.

For those saying it's a control thing, I don't think it is.. only the OP knows her DH really but mine is the opposite of controlling, but has always been health anxious. The general thought process goes: Going to a public toilet is more risky than not going in, as you will be touching surfaces. The risk/reward benefit is not there, as to do exercise you can certainly stay in walking distance from home (or, in OP's case, use a bush).

I responded on another thread with a similar problem.. there is very little you can do to counteract this mindset, as it always comes from the point of view of 'I'm just trying to protect our health'.

God, what a wimp and a worrywart he is. It's not very attractive.

Do you really want to live your life like this? Have your DC growing up around his controlling behaviour and berating comments?

What would you say to your DC if they told you that their partner was speaking to them like he speaks to you?

OK, why are you so angry?

Umm I'm not - why do you assume I am?

If you read the actual words I used, I said it was an area of concern (it is) and that it is thought people did catch it in toilets (it is thought that).

where is it thought that? Could you link to the evidence or is this just your opinion?

People get so cross, I am sorry if you don't understand what I am posting, but that isn't a reason to get angry.

Umm - no one is cross - I simply asked asked you a question, which you've totally ignored in order to construct some weird narrative about me being angry. Very strange

@Veterinari

OK, why are you so angry?

Umm I'm not - why do you assume I am?

If you read the actual words I used, I said it was an area of concern (it is) and that it is thought people did catch it in toilets (it is thought that).

where is it thought that? Could you link to the evidence or is this just your opinion?

People get so cross, I am sorry if you don't understand what I am posting, but that isn't a reason to get angry.

Umm - no one is cross - I simply asked asked you a question, which you've totally ignored in order to construct some weird narrative about me being angry. Very strange

It isn't my personal opinion, it was discussed fairly widely. If you look on e.g. Welsh govt guidance it explains that toilets carry a risk (unlike e.g. standing outside).

Toilets are often small rooms. Sometimes there is more than one person in at a time.

People breathe whilst using the toilet. The next person comes in and breathes in what was breathed out by the person before.

Also people touch things in toilets.

These things are so obvious that I don't understand why you are questioning it.

OP I'm not ignoring the main point here but I think that's been covered. I always need the loo so I bought some disposable toilet bag things for if I'm caught short and there isn't a public loo open. I hate public loos at the best of times anyway. So these are from Amazon. They have an absorbant liner so wee gets soaked up. Yes you then have to carry it if say on a hike but I'd much rather than than pee behind a bush, which I cannot do without getting my shoes wet 🤣 Plus its gross xx

@WingingItSince1973 I wondered if anything would be marketed like this, as the toilet issue is a real problem - both because they were closed (due to transmission risk and to deter visitors, which creates other problems) and then because lots of people won't want to use them.

In the last 12 months I have used public toilets in shopping centres, parks, motorway service stations, the indoor Market to name a few. All have had Covid safe arrangements and on all occasions I have worn a mask, washed my hands and used my own hand sanitiser afterwards. So far I haven't managed to catch Covid. Your DH us being totally OTT.

He sounds a bit nuts. Toilets are probably one of the safest places because generally we wash our hands before leaving them?
I can’t go anywhere without needing the loo so I have been using public toilets as normal though quite a few seem to be closed.

A news source from June last year when we knew practically nothing about the virus and is filled with the words 'may' 'no clear evidence' 'not clear'

The science has moved on away from this to focus on space, aerosols and masks.

He's an idiot!

Most public toilets are operating a one-in, one-out policy at the moment anyway.

Wear a mask, wash your hands, "hover" (which many of us older ladies were taught to do in a public loo anyway) - you'll be fine. It's ok for men, their plumbing means that nipping behind a bush or down an alley is a relatively easy task. We have to squat and it's not only more awkward, but we feel much more vulnerable (and obvious).

Plus- I don't know about anyone else, but I always pee before leaving the house, and almost always need another wee (especially in cold weather) about 10 minutes into the journey or walk. It's not a simple as saying "Go before you leave th house." It really isn't.

SARS-CoV-1 in 2003 was definitely transmitted via faeces and flushing toilets. Google "Amoy Gardens" and "Metropole Hotel" if you want to see how.

I guess we can hope SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) is different.

Whilst I think you should have gone before leaving the house, in the circumstances you face a public toilet was the sensible option. You could flush and perhaps turn on taps without hands being directly on them if you were concerned.