Do men know this is creepy?

[FlossieTeacakesFurCoat18]

Yesterday I was walking in woodland near my home, something I do regularly. I was approaching a gate leading to the lane and a guy was coming through it towards me. I glanced back once I was through the gate and he'd turned around and was now walking behind me. I stopped by a tree and pretended to be fiddling with my phone so I was facing him and kind of stared him down... He then made a 90 degree turn and went up the hill.

I don't think he was actually going to do anything sinister but surely guys know that you don't do an about-face and start following a woman you've just passed in a relatively remote space with no other people around? He wasn't a young lad who might not have realised this is scary for women, he was in his thirties.

I realise men can be clueless but is it possible to be THAT oblivious? Do they do it on purpose or am I paranoid after seeing screenshots from reddit users saying they get a kick out of following women and seeing them get nervous?

sorry op, they're just horrid excuses for humans.

Wow- I can't believe this is a thing! And to speak about it like it's harmless because they don't actually molest or rape!! Something as 'simple' as being followed like that can be enough to turn even the most confident woman to an anxious wreck. Shit like that stays with you!

@Confusedandshaken

When my DD first passed her driving test she even used to get this in the car, men tailgating her and then overtaking, then parking and tailgating her again. I think she attracted attention because she looked very young to be driving and this was a way of exerting power and scaring her. It certainly worked, she would be shaking and crying when she got home.

I used to drive a small car that could have been stereotyped by some as a typically female car. The bullying behaviour from other drivers was phenomenal. The car was actually a very rare, very souped up version which could out perform most others when pulling away, and that used to further enrage them.

Compare that to when I drove a van, it was like driving in a different country.

I was taught at my all girls school to look a man directly in their face and say a pleasantry like 'good morning' or 'nice weather'. The idea behind it being they are aware you could accurately describe them, including accent should you need to later, and it dieters them.
It's also the theory behind why supermarkets have greeters at the door too.
Only problem being it can open conversations with oddballs who then try to engage and walk alongside you.
Such a catch 22 and grim that I have to over think these types of things instead of just enjoying a nice walk in my own little world

@grassisjeweled

the generalised 'men' comments aren't welcome either.^

Sorry. They are. We're allowed to generalise. Because if we don't, we get harassed, raped, beaten up. I'm sure the men can handle some generalisation for the sake of women's safety. Can't they?

Not only that, but if we don’t generalise and those things happen, then we are blamed for those things happening, because we obviously should have been more careful/less naive, etc.

women who feel the need to say NAMALT. Please can you tell the rest of us, once and for all, how to spot predatory and potentially dangerous men? Do they have special tattoos? Or a particular type of haircut? Wear certain trainers? If only you would tell us we could once again step out into the world without fear. Eagerly anticipating your reply because it will be life changing.

Exactly.

I’ve had two quite scary incidents recently, both involving men in hoods/a hat and masks. One was following me down a quiet residential road in the evening. He crossed over to my side and got so close he was probably less than two metres away at times, I kept speeding up and he kept speeding up too and then slowing and I ended up running away. I’m sure he was doing it on purpose (if he’d wanted to actually do anything, he was close enough to).

I’m concerned the fact I couldn’t see his face may have given he him more confidence. I doubt he was genuinely concerned about Covid, if he was, he wouldn’t have got so close would he?

Oh god yes. I thought the screenshot was pretty well known but maybe it's only gone viral in feminist groups? I'll try and dig it out. Some guy was saying how he realised the girl he was walking behind was looking back nervously and he got a thrill out of it and recommended this street- talking as a "harmless" hobby for men (incels, anyway)

I've seen the. He was claiming that because he "wouldn't do anything" it was "harmless". I think IIRC he said that the girl he was following was about 14.

Creeps!

[quote VenusTiger]@chocolateorangeinhaler that's what I was trying to put across - and I have been in some serious and scary situations with predators - but I'm being jumped on. I'm off, probaby from MN completely. Done with the bullying pile ons.
Don't have a different opinion.[/quote]
@VenusTiger don't leave. It's vital to challenge opinions however small your voice in that opinion.

The bit of that screenshot that I can't get out of my head is 'know your limits', like he's restraining himself from getting a bit rapey or something. So fucking grim.

Yes OP, trust your gut. I wonder if he thought you'd taken a photo.

Not only that, but if we don’t generalise and those things happen, then we are blamed for those things happening, because we obviously should have been more careful/less naive, etc.

Oh, yes - if you are wary you are being unfair, but if you are not wary you have no one to blame but yourself if something happens. FFS.

@Sandgrown1970

I think he WAS following you intentionally so can’t feign any cluelessness.

I can well believe some men get kicks out of those kind of things. Usually the pathetic and often otherwise invisible ones you’d never look twice at because it’s one of the only things they can think of to feel powerful for ten minutes instead of actually being a decent man and realising it’s not on to frighten women.

When I was in the States in my teens and 20s and physically tiny, I noticed that quite a few men, and usually it was black men, would actually go out of their way to make sure they didn’t make women alone feel intimidated or afraid. A prime example would be that if they saw I was alone in a lift and realised they’d be the only one getting with me in late at night, rather than risk me being afraid in a confined space with a strange man they’d say “it’s ok, I can wait for the next one” or if we were already in the lift and were the only two left they’d step out often well before the floor I’d seen them press earlier. It was like they were thinking “how can I make this young woman feel comfortable in this situation?” Rather than “how can I make this woman feel
uncomfortable?”

Why can’t more men be like that? Honestly,
I would wipe the floor with my boys if one of them ever dared behave like that screenshot. They’ve been brought up to respect women. Cross the road if they can or make her aware they are behind rather than sneak up, step out the lift, take their hood down to be less intimidating etc, don’t make small talk at inappropriate times etc.

Those examples of black guys in the States sound to me more like self-preservation for them (I'm assuming you're not black). It's to make sure they can't be falsely accused of anything, I'd say - the way a male doctor has a chaperone in for female patients, for his benefit as well as theirs.

Sorry if anyone's said this. I've only read the first page.

I did exactly what he did last week on a woodland walk to a woman in front of me.

I realised I’d dropped a glove so had to turn abruptly

women who feel the need to say NAMALT. Please can you tell the rest of us, once and for all, how to spot predatory and potentially dangerous men? Do they have special tattoos? Or a particular type of haircut? Wear certain trainers? If only you would tell us we could once again step out into the world without fear.

Never have I agreed with anything more. I'd love to know.

And yes, they know. As is apparent from the screenshot upthread, some of them enjoy it because they are creepy little incels.

I do wish we could have just one thread without the NAMALT-ing. Point is: it's too fucking many of them, and we don't know which ones.

@VenusTiger KNOW when to stop FFS!

Your posts are horrible.

@VenusTiger

That screenshot is not every man - stalkers are not every man - murderers are not every man. I've been followed (several times), shut in a hotel room, dragged across a road (by the hand), driven away from the direction of my home in a taxi so I understand where some are coming from. But we must not vilify every single man like this. Not all men will do this, my husband understands if he's walking behind a lone woman/girl, he will hang back or cross the road - it's something you teach your sons AND your daughters, but we can't live like this with presuming that ALL men are predators. OP, sorry to hear you felt unsafe, hope you're okay.

It doessn't matter if it's not all men.

When women realise a man is behind them, they have no idea whether that man is like your DH or if he's one of the wankers. There's no identifying mark.

And the decent men still don't call out the other men, the misogynists and wankers. They stay silent so are still complicit.

When the decent men stand up for women in the moment, such as when a woman is being harrassed in front of them, then I'll stop treating all men as potential problems.

I had this one evening when I had to make a complicated journey on public transport. I clocked a guy getting on the tube and sitting opposite me. I got off and switched to an overground train - no sign of him. When I got off the overground train I saw him again - quite unusual. He then got on the same bus as me - I was quite freaked out by this - he sat upstairs and I was downstairs. I got off at a stop on the busy south circular road and he then got off the bus too (running down the stairs and getting off at the last minute). I was absolutely terrified and ended up running into a fast food place and calling a cab to finish my journey. Guys in the takeaway were really sweet but it was an awful experience.

Yup, was just about to say the same thing to @Sandgrown1970

That was self-preservation, to avoid false accusations. There's quite a history.

Of course decent men know not to follow women, or make them feel uncomfortable and there may have been an overlap in motivation but I'm not sure most white men would think not to get in a lift with a lone woman.

And the decent men still don't call out the other men, the misogynists and wankers. They stay silent so are still complicit. When the decent men stand up for women in the moment, such as when a woman is being harrassed in front of them, then I'll stop treating all men as potential problems.

Exactly this.

People do turn around randomly on walks, at places like gates. So maybe it was about you and maybe not.

Did he realise it would bother you, if it wasn't intentional? It sounds like not, until maybe he noticed you staring at him so he went the other way.

Should he have realised? I don't know. Sure, yes, but OTOH I don't really think I'm willing to say a guy who turns around at the place he intended to on his walk should be seriously faulted for not thinking about someone he has no intention of interacting with at all in the moment.

If he meant to do something inappropriate or wrong, then obviously he's a twat and a whole different set of ideas applies.

There's no good reason for a man to do that. It's not even a matter of them knowing if it's creepy- he didn't have a good motive. At the very least, he wanted to ogle your bum.

A lot of men think women are objects.

I guess he could have planned all along to turn there on his walk, but I consider it unlikely.

@me4real

There's no good reason for a man to do that. It's not even a matter of them knowing if it's creepy- he didn't have a good motive. At the very least, he wanted to ogle your bum.

A lot of men think women are objects.

I did exactly this I am female Same scenario and environment I realised I’d dropped my glove a way back

That does sound creepy OP. It seems odd to suddenly turn around and follow you. I think you did the right thing in staring him down.

If he was going to turn around anyway, he wouldn't have gone through the gate.

I sometimes turn randomly, when running or walking, because my plan is to go a certain distance then turn around. It can cause minor confusion with people holding gates open, moving aside etc. In which case I'd acknowledge them or communicate in some way and try to step aside to keep out of their way, if relevant. I think a lot of men do this, communicate. They'll say something pleasant or inane, just to signal that they've acknowledged your presence and are just going about their business.