Do men know this is creepy?

[FlossieTeacakesFurCoat18]

Yesterday I was walking in woodland near my home, something I do regularly. I was approaching a gate leading to the lane and a guy was coming through it towards me. I glanced back once I was through the gate and he'd turned around and was now walking behind me. I stopped by a tree and pretended to be fiddling with my phone so I was facing him and kind of stared him down... He then made a 90 degree turn and went up the hill.

I don't think he was actually going to do anything sinister but surely guys know that you don't do an about-face and start following a woman you've just passed in a relatively remote space with no other people around? He wasn't a young lad who might not have realised this is scary for women, he was in his thirties.

I realise men can be clueless but is it possible to be THAT oblivious? Do they do it on purpose or am I paranoid after seeing screenshots from reddit users saying they get a kick out of following women and seeing them get nervous?

[bemusedmoose]

I would say he did it on purpose. A normal decent guy wouldn't even consider doing that but sadly I find it's a thing and get it a lot. I'm not sure if they dont care how you feel or get a kick out of it or even if they are planning to do more than just follow you and freak you out but what i do know is it is on purpose.

[Margerine78]

@RatsolutelyFabulous

Firstly I’m very sorry to the OP, that must of been scary for you and seeing that screenshot has made me sick to my stomach.

However,

Why is everyone giving *@VenusTiger* such a hard time?

Yes, we need to be wary of men, I myself like most others have been victim to sexual harassment/assault. It doesn’t mean all men are like that.

Some of my scariest harassment’s have actually been from women. I admit I do dress a bit blokeish but I’ve had several lesbians over the years not take no for an answer when I’m 100% straight and I do have several gay and trans friends, so being gay isn’t a problem to me. The problem is, It got to the point they’d go through others to find out where I lived and show up/ constantly harass me to the point I’ve felt more uncomfortable/scared than I have done with my countless times of assaults from men.

We all know that there is always going to be a threat for women against men and it’s disgusting there’s so many dirty blokes out there but any gender can easily be just as harmful! If that wasn’t the case then the majority on here wouldn’t get married or have kids if all men where sexual predators.

This misses the point though @MmeLaraque, I totally hear you on the woman thing, I've had male friends with really controlling girlfriends, and I've had gay friends be really full on with me knowing I'm straight and found it creepy. However, a woman can't physically harm another woman (or a man) ** in the same way a man can hurt a woman.

** I know there's always small men, big women etc but in the main men are bigger, with bigger muscle masses, and also due to testosterone on the whole more aggressive and predatory too - this is biology not me being some man hater.

[skirk64]

I always try to remember that even in a weird situation where someone appears to be following you like in the original post, you are much safer there than you would be if your were in your own home.

You are much more likely to be attacked at home than out and about.
You are much more likely to be attacked by a relative or friend than a stranger.

Ratherberightthanhappy's suggestions look like they come from America. If you're in America, carry a gun, not just pepper spray. And make sure you are skilled at using it.

If you are in the UK obviously you can't carry a gun, pepper spray or anything that could be considered a weapon. Even a Maglite could get you in trouble if you were carrying it in the daytime. The most you could get away with is maybe a can of deodorant that you can spray in their eyes.

But remember, if you are out alone and someone is walking behind you, you are safer than if they weren't there. Most men aren't going to attack you, and the fact that there is someone behind you means the person hiding in the bushes will wait for an easier target.

We can't change men's behaviour - we can change our attitude and understanding of risk.

[BIWI]

we can change our attitude and understanding of risk

Oh, so it's back to our fault again?!

[Tinkerbell456]

This is, obviously, a generalisation. Men will resort to aggression, whether verbal, physical intimidation, or actual violence before women will. Fact of both biology and centuries of indoctrination. I know my hubs weighs well over twice of me, and would I cross him seriously? No. Not because of anything he has said or done, but my gut simply tells me not to.

[Margerine78]

@skirk64

I always try to remember that even in a weird situation where someone appears to be following you like in the original post, you are much safer there than you would be if your were in your own home.

You are much more likely to be attacked at home than out and about.
You are much more likely to be attacked by a relative or friend than a stranger.

Ratherberightthanhappy's suggestions look like they come from America. If you're in America, carry a gun, not just pepper spray. And make sure you are skilled at using it.

If you are in the UK obviously you can't carry a gun, pepper spray or anything that could be considered a weapon. Even a Maglite could get you in trouble if you were carrying it in the daytime. The most you could get away with is maybe a can of deodorant that you can spray in their eyes.

But remember, if you are out alone and someone is walking behind you, you are safer than if they weren't there. Most men aren't going to attack you, and the fact that there is someone behind you means the person hiding in the bushes will wait for an easier target.

We can't change men's behaviour - we can change our attitude and understanding of risk.

Because of domestic violence more women get attacked at home then on the street but it doesn't mean the street attacks don't happen and aren't still frighteningly high, I'm just one woman and I can recount at least 20+ experiences off the top of my head right now (and I'm only 44) where I've been chased, followed, grabbed in the street, intimidated, spiked etc when out and about. I don't think women are safe anywhere where men are (inside or out).

[Salarymallory]

@Tinkerbell456

This is, obviously, a generalisation. Men will resort to aggression, whether verbal, physical intimidation, or actual violence before women will. Fact of both biology and centuries of indoctrination. I know my hubs weighs well over twice of me, and would I cross him seriously? No. Not because of anything he has said or done, but my gut simply tells me not to.

Presumably you wouldn’t cross him if you didn’t know him?

Presumably you’re happy to argue and indeed “cross him” as he’s your husband?

[lottiegarbanzo]

I think you're muddling up averages and specifics there skirk64

On average, women are more at risk of rape or murder at home. That does not mean each of us is at risk at home.

In a specific situation where someone is already deliberately following you, you are already the statistic, the person 'being followed'.

The relevant statistics there, are: What proportion of men who deliberately follow women to intimidate them, go on to attack women? Then, how many times do they follow women, before attacking one? Then, how many times do they attack, before they are caught (and stopped)? Those figures would allow you to work out the probability that any single incident of being followed will result in an attack.

Once you know that, you can compare 'the average risk of attack when living with a man' to 'the average risk of attack when being deliberately followed'. And, you could add some other stats to compare 'the average risk of attack at home when you live with a man who has no history of abuse towards women' to 'the average risk of attack when being deliberately followed'.

[MmeLaraque]

@Margerine78 You appear to have cited someone else, but tagged me.

[Margerine78]

@MmeLaraque, apologies, I am at work but also on Mumsnet and I clearly can't multi-task!

[Mittens030869]

On average, women are more at risk of rape or murder at home. That does not mean each of us is at risk at home.

Yes. Or else some of us are at risk at home at different times in our lives. My DSis and I were at risk at home when we were children (and so was my DM, who was being controlled), but we’re not now in our different households.

My DSis was at risk in her first (abusive) marriage but she was no longer at risk after that.

So I’m more at risk outdoors than at home now, although less so than when I was 10 years younger.

[user1493379562]

Wow there s a lot of Misandry on this post. Mainly by women who have sadly been assaulted or even raped and I can understand why they feel the way they do. However having a go at Venus isn't fair. She too has had terrible experiences but it s her way of coping. I am afraid you can educate males all you like but as pointed out by others it won't make any difference to those men who have the mind set to dominate women. It is mainly about power over women and what better way to intimidate them with the threat of sexual assault! Look to the current news where women in Myanmar where those evil soldiers have raped women to punish them! I doubt if anything will change in the short term. Women are generally the physically weaker sex and therefore more vulnerable You can shout from the roof tops but I doubt women will be able to change the nature of these sort of men and no it is not fair, it is what it is so what we must do is be aware. Don't put yourself in vulnerable situations, arm yourself with a small can of hair lacquer ( or deodorant) but for goodness sake don't live your life in fear of all men.
As for the gang of young sh!ts that attacked the young mum and her child. They are a product of society that stopped disciplining children. They do stuff like that because they can, because they can get away with it and if they get an asbo they where it as a badge of honor! Much like the young thugs that have been throwing rocks off a bridge in my home town. It scares me to think that thugs like this will be in charge when we are old. As for the men who wrote about intimidating women for kicks I would like to kick them where it hurts most very , very hard. However social media has a lot to answer for because it gives a platform for these people to intimidate women from a distance. Who knows how many men in the past have had thoughts like that. Socially inadequate , sick individuals but who were unknown before social media? So stay safe, be aware but don't live in fear, life is too short!

[MarieIVanArkleStinks]

Wow there s a lot of Misandry on this post. Mainly by women who have sadly been assaulted or even raped and I can understand why they feel the way they do.

You make me sick.

[MarieIVanArkleStinks]

And yes, that is a 'personal' response. I have rarely read anything more offensive on this site, and that's saying a lot.

[MmeLaraque]

[quote RatsolutelyFabulous]@MmeLaraque

By dressing like a bloke, I mean I dress in jeans, men’s tops and wear dickies jackets(dress like a builder) pretty much look like my dad who is a builder.

I’ve had LOADS of comments from people saying I look like a lesbian over the year because of how I dress/look! No I don’t wear a badge, who the fuck does?

And by saying I’ve experienced lesbians who are gits, you’re therefore implying men who harass are also gits? Or does having a dick mean it’s worse and women are ok to also harass just because they have a fanny? pot calling kettle with that one.[/quote]
I see. Using that descriptor, every woman who walks their dog at the same time as I do dresses like a bloke. They're just clothes. I wonder what we'd have to wear to be considered, "dressing like a woman"?

The ignorance you describe is not new, but does wear a bit thin. The badge comment was sarcasm. As per the chaps who complain when they're chatted up by homosexual men. There's not usually any way to distinguish sexuality.

Your last sentence makes no sense. Anyone who harrasses someone else is a git. Gender/sexual preference doesn't matter. Not sure who you think is the pot, but it's clear you've misunderstood *something.

[MiaChia]

How can those of us who understand the issue explain to those who don’t why ignoring male violence will NOT make our lives better? Seriously, when has burying one’s head in the sand ever helped in any bad situation?

I must say again that telling oneself one will not be a victim and giving oneself a mandate to stride about confidently doesn’t make one safe. It’s far easier to tell oneself that bad things won’t happen because you’re not walking in bad neighbourhoods, you’re not drunk or wearing a short skirt, working as a sex worker etc but, read the news, women don’t only get attacked, raped or even killed if they obey the ‘safety rules’. Please deal with the ever present treat of potential male violence in your own way but don’t force your dangerous advice onto other women.

[UnsolicitedDickPic]

@user1493379562

Wow there s a lot of Misandry on this post. Mainly by women who have sadly been assaulted or even raped and I can understand why they feel the way they do. However having a go at Venus isn't fair. She too has had terrible experiences but it s her way of coping. I am afraid you can educate males all you like but as pointed out by others it won't make any difference to those men who have the mind set to dominate women. It is mainly about power over women and what better way to intimidate them with the threat of sexual assault! Look to the current news where women in Myanmar where those evil soldiers have raped women to punish them! I doubt if anything will change in the short term. Women are generally the physically weaker sex and therefore more vulnerable You can shout from the roof tops but I doubt women will be able to change the nature of these sort of men and no it is not fair, it is what it is so what we must do is be aware. Don't put yourself in vulnerable situations, arm yourself with a small can of hair lacquer ( or deodorant) but for goodness sake don't live your life in fear of all men.
As for the gang of young sh!ts that attacked the young mum and her child. They are a product of society that stopped disciplining children. They do stuff like that because they can, because they can get away with it and if they get an asbo they where it as a badge of honor! Much like the young thugs that have been throwing rocks off a bridge in my home town. It scares me to think that thugs like this will be in charge when we are old. As for the men who wrote about intimidating women for kicks I would like to kick them where it hurts most very , very hard. However social media has a lot to answer for because it gives a platform for these people to intimidate women from a distance. Who knows how many men in the past have had thoughts like that. Socially inadequate , sick individuals but who were unknown before social media? So stay safe, be aware but don't live in fear, life is too short!

Seriously, your attitude is appalling and you should be ashamed of yourself. You won't be though, you don't have the self-awareness.

[MarieIVanArkleStinks]

Some women on here have got particular axes to grind and that is their choice but to spout venom to those who don't agree with your way of looking at things I find quite sad.

To suggest to women who have shared their experiences of rape on threads about male violence to women - which would be me, as I'd actually like to help others in that position - that they have 'axes' to grind and an agenda based on misandry, is what's really venomous. It's twisted, nasty, and downright unpleasant, and it is one step worse than victim-blaming, it's actual, active and persistent goading of people who have suffered this kind of abuse. Recall the kinds of attitudes toward rape victims that cite their previous abuse as the reason they are lesbian and man-haters. It's truly disgusting behaviour.

There's a nasty undertow on this site of late, involving certain posters harassing victims of sexual violence in this way. Then, when they achieve the vehement response that such behaviour naturally provokes, they cry that they are the ones being bullied.

It's absolutely shameful behaviour and I can't even imagine what kind of twisted outlook drives it. And it's already derailed far too many threads on this site.

[Beline4u]

@Gingernaut What the af?! Sick prick.. His balls need cut off and posted to him!! And any other man that follows.

[Mittens030869]

There's a nasty undertow on this site of late, involving certain posters harassing victims of sexual violence in this way. Then, when they achieve the vehement response that such behaviour naturally provokes, they cry that they are the ones being bullied.

I have noticed that, it’s derailed far too many threads recently.

[MarieIVanArkleStinks]

[now hiding thread. I've no intention of engaging in this kind of thing again].

[Mittens030869]

It never used to be like this. I don’t remember feeling the need to clarify that I agree that it isn’t all men that are guilty of misogyny/male violence, whenever I post about the subject.

[Blueink]

skirk64 it’s not true if you are alone you are safer with a man walking behind you. Have been followed and it’s been with the help of other women looking out I’ve got to safety - sometimes not before something happened. Never had anyone jump out of a bush. Not saying it wouldn’t happen, but your post is misleading and falsely reassuring

[Gendercritic]

Yep, also staring/fixed eye contact without obvious leering - it still feels intimidating and unsafe.