Do men know this is creepy?

[FlossieTeacakesFurCoat18]

Yesterday I was walking in woodland near my home, something I do regularly. I was approaching a gate leading to the lane and a guy was coming through it towards me. I glanced back once I was through the gate and he'd turned around and was now walking behind me. I stopped by a tree and pretended to be fiddling with my phone so I was facing him and kind of stared him down... He then made a 90 degree turn and went up the hill.

I don't think he was actually going to do anything sinister but surely guys know that you don't do an about-face and start following a woman you've just passed in a relatively remote space with no other people around? He wasn't a young lad who might not have realised this is scary for women, he was in his thirties.

I realise men can be clueless but is it possible to be THAT oblivious? Do they do it on purpose or am I paranoid after seeing screenshots from reddit users saying they get a kick out of following women and seeing them get nervous?

[quote StarCourt]**@CandyLeBonBon any police education probably isn't going to make any difference when men know they can get away with terrorising and hurting women. I've just seen this news article and we are absolutely fighting a losing battle.

Domestic abusers who strangled, bit and stalked women avoid jail www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/heartbreaking-failure-domestic-abusers-who-20246816[/quote]
@CandyLeBonBon. Police will ask for witnesses. A couple of them. Independent. Good luck with that.

Tell us again that police are *not misgynistic.

We all know that there is always going to be a threat for women against men and it’s disgusting there’s so many dirty blokes out there but any gender can easily be just as harmful!

Just as harmful? Are two women a week murdering their partners in the UK? How many women have been raped by another woman? Are women flashing their vulvas at people in parks? Do men make sure they meet their first-time dates in public in case they get assaulted? Are female students joking with each other about raping and torturing other students in their halls? Do men who are out walking their dogs feel fear that the woman coming towards them may overpower them? Are there women in vans leering and shouting obscenities at schoolchildren from the moment they look like they be approaching puberty?

@user1523010848

Am I the only one here who has never been a little bit scared by a group of gobby 16yr old (ish) girls? Get over yourselves ladies and be sensible during the day and night. As my husband and my boys do.

Would you like to explain to the poster on here who was assaulted yesterday how she should have been sensible and how she should get over herself? How should she have walked down the road at 2pm with her baby to avoid being assaulted?

Your Nigel and your sons are not relevant. They are not likely to face this kind of attack in the middle of the day.

Am I the only one here who has never been a little bit scared by a group of gobby 16yr old (ish) girls? Get over yourselves ladies and be sensible during the day and night.

'Being sensible' would not have prevented my being raped twice. it wouldn't have prevented a third incident where I was almost forced to give oral sex but thankfully hit him with an ashtray and got away. It didn't spare me months of sexual harassment in the workplace and four years of staking after that, because I'd had the temerity to report him. It didn't prevent my being followed, intimidated, groped, or any number of low-level sex harassment incidents since the age of about thirteen.

Every single one of those incidents was perpetrated by men. Never women. Check out the statistics of violent crime and sexual crime and satisfy yourself as to who the overwhelming percentage of the perpetrators are. And that's for the few which actually have achieved secure convictions.

So tell me, Sherlock, how it was my responsibility to have avoided such a series of events, unless it's your MO to victim-blame and tell me twice looks like carelessness, or that my neckline was too low or skirt was too short. (On both occasions I was wearing jeans).

How would being sensible have prevented these issues? I'm all ears.

And God forbid we put the blame on the actual men responsible.

@MmeLaraque

By dressing like a bloke, I mean I dress in jeans, men’s tops and wear dickies jackets(dress like a builder) pretty much look like my dad who is a builder.

I’ve had LOADS of comments from people saying I look like a lesbian over the year because of how I dress/look! No I don’t wear a badge, who the fuck does?

And by saying I’ve experienced lesbians who are gits, you’re therefore implying men who harass are also gits? Or does having a dick mean it’s worse and women are ok to also harass just because they have a fanny? pot calling kettle with that one.

being sensible - aka - why are you even going out and walking past men

I’d also like to add, I know several women that are in prison for sexual assault against blokes and also some that are peadophiles, so it’s not just men. Any fucker can be harmful towards anyone regardless of gender.

I’m not making out violence and assault against women shouldn’t be addressed, it absolutely needs highlighting as we as women should feel safe and not have to worry when out alone or going about our life, but anyone can harass anyone regardless of gender. I came out of an abusive relationship and it’s completely fucked me up, doesn’t mean I’m not going to trust any bloke and assume he’s out to get me. I can still be observant without pre judgement they’re going to rape me.

And by saying I’ve experienced lesbians who are gits, you’re therefore implying men who harass are also gits? Or does having a dick mean it’s worse and women are ok to also harass just because they have a fanny?

It's never okay. I've never seen anyone seriously suggesting it is. Stalking is not okay and an inability to hear the word 'no' is one of the biggest red flags there is. I'm sorry you've been put through this and yes, I'm I'm well aware some lesbians can be predatory. I'm bisexual. My experiences and yours differ, because in terms of the constant onslaught of harassment and abuse I've received at the hands of men, women's efforts have paled into insignificance by comparison. And certainly none have ever sexually violated me.

I do not deny your experiences refute them, or suggest they were not valid or not serious. They were. No one has any right to harass you or make your live in fear.

Of the two of us, as far as conventional patterns of sexual violence and crime is concerned, your experiences seem atypical. The statistics don't lie. Check them out, and just look at the huge tipping of the scales on the male side when it comes to who the perpetrators really are.

This is a silent, insidious pandemic. Look at the numbers. It's as dangerous as anything we are now experiencing as a society, and it's claimed the lives of huge numbers of women. It's also now been normalised. Look at this thread. Women talk about their own abuse and immediately NAMALT, Not My Nigel, and whataboutery is deployed to shut us the fuck up.

It's far past time to say: 'enough'.

Please tell me how I was not sensible when both me and my 9mo dd was attacked at 2pm in the afternoon yesterday by a group of young boys @user1523010848??? Should I have not went out at all????? Should neither me or my DD ever leave our house ever again??? Get over myself?! Please O please enlighten me with your words of wisdom how I could be more sensible???????? And I can put my house on it that a group of girls would not have pulled a lone women onto the floor then her 9mo dd in her pram laughing a howling as they did so.

@RatsolutelyFabulous Firstly I’m very sorry to the OP, that must of been scary for you and seeing that screenshot has made me sick to my stomach.

However,

Why is everyone giving@VenusTigersuch a hard time?

Because my way of dealing with my experiences of harrassment, being followed, being held in a hotel room, being dragged, being hit, being assaulted, being driven away from my home in a taxi (all separate incidents) is not agreeable with nearly all of the pps on this particular thread.

I'll continue to deal with my experiences my way, if pps want to trivialise my experiences by telling me I can't tell myself 'not all men are like that' in order for me to try to carry on as normal, or before I go out alone, then so be it.

I went to an all girls school and I know how bitchy and bullyish some women when in groups (not all women - yes, the need to add disclaimers in this world today) can be - I made MY point about MY experiences and how I try to get through them, I will not "Fuck off" or "go away" etc. don't you see that stifling debate is the problem here.

Having been through those experiences in my 20s, I had to try and leave them behind, harder said than done and if I want to tell myself those words, or anything like it 'there are more good ppl in the world than there are bad' then I will. I think it's sick that pps are telling me to F off. I for one don't want to live like that, presuming every single man is a danger to me - that's impossible and completely unreasonable. I don't have the answers, but for ME (yes, my post) I try to remain central and level-headed as best I can. A therapist does the same thing, they tell you the chances and probabilities in order for you to try and recognise the threat is minimal, to help you to get on with daily life. That said, I would never walk alone in the dark and that's something I have to live with.

I didn't say the OP was wrong, I didn't say she responded badlly - I was trying to let her know how I deal with it myself by repeating what I tell myself.

Shame on those who punished me for trying to defend the "men" in my life (and yours) who should not be labelled due to the minority of vile monsters in this world.

@VenusTiger, you seem to be living in a parallel universe. Would you 'helpfully' explain to the families of any of the women murdered each year in this country alone that 'statistically' they were in no danger? Do you really not understand that your logic is flawed? How can I help you understand facts a little better?

@MIaChia I seriously don't know what your problem is, why are you being so utterly condescending? "facts" about MY own experiences? I haven't mentioned anything about women being in "no danger". Lay off.

OP this sounds very worrying and rather than doubt yourself I would report it - you can email the police with details, especially as you got a good look at him. I wouldn’t trust anyone who would get a thrill out of frightening people on the street not to escalate the behaviour. We also don’t know if he has hurt anyone or planning to. Your information could be invaluable in preventing or solving a crime.

@user1523010848

Am I the only one here who has never been a little bit scared by a group of gobby 16yr old (ish) girls? Get over yourselves ladies and be sensible during the day and night. As my husband and my boys do.

You sound pleasant. I'm sure your husband and sons are equally so. Please feel free to post their names so that we can avoid them - they're probably misogynists as well.

I'm doing some research in this area and sharing this as I think it is genuinely useful insight.

A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts :

1. The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed . They are also likely to go after* a woman with long hair*. Women with short hair are not common targets.

2. The second thing men look for* is clothing. They will look for women who's clothing is easy to remove quickly*. Many of them carry scissors around specifically to cut clothing.

3. They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

4) Men are most likely to attack & rape in the early morning, between 5:00a.m. and 8:30a.m.

5. The number one place women are abducted from/attacked is grocery store parking lots . Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms.

6. The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to another location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

7. Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.

8. If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming .

9. These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas , or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands.

Keys are not a deterrent** because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it.

10. Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk: "I can't believe it is so cold out here", "we're in for a bad winter." Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a line-up; you lose appeal as a target.

11. If someone is coming toward you , hold out your hands in front of you and yell STOP or STAY BACK ! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back . Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

12. If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yell I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.

13) If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm (between the elbow and armpit) OR in the upper inner thigh VERY VERY HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands - the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it hurts.

14. After the initial hit, always GO for the GROIN. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there.

15. When the guy puts his hands up to you , grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.

16. Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts!!!

You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.

Completely insensitive. What a bloody idiot. I would have been scared and with the Sarah Everard case the mind boggles.

@Ratherberightthanhappy

I'm doing some research in this area and sharing this as I think it is genuinely useful insight.

A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts :

1. The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed . They are also likely to go after* a woman with long hair*. Women with short hair are not common targets.

2. The second thing men look for* is clothing. They will look for women who's clothing is easy to remove quickly*. Many of them carry scissors around specifically to cut clothing.

3. They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

4) Men are most likely to attack & rape in the early morning, between 5:00a.m. and 8:30a.m.

5. The number one place women are abducted from/attacked is grocery store parking lots . Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms.

6. The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to another location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

7. Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.

8. If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming .

9. These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas , or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands.

Keys are not a deterrent** because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it.

10. Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk: "I can't believe it is so cold out here", "we're in for a bad winter." Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a line-up; you lose appeal as a target.

11. If someone is coming toward you , hold out your hands in front of you and yell STOP or STAY BACK ! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back . Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

12. If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yell I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.

13) If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm (between the elbow and armpit) OR in the upper inner thigh VERY VERY HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands - the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it hurts.

14. After the initial hit, always GO for the GROIN. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there.

15. When the guy puts his hands up to you , grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.

16. Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts!!!

You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.

Research? This sounds like something little old grannies forward in all their WhatsApp groups.

Rather your post is really useful for attacks by strangers.

Most attacks on women are by men known to them, so how do we protect ourselves from our husbands, boyfriends, brothers, fathers, uncles, sons even?

And there are cases of male on male rape using drugs reaching conviction - but what of those male on female rapes using drugs? Or alcohol?

How can we protect ourselves from our ‘caring’ boyfriends making us tea or cocoa of an evening? Or of husbands ‘helping’ us sleep by running a hot bath with a brandy laced with who knows what? (They know what though don’t they?)

A warm bath, a hot toddy, a warm blanket and hot water bottle. And a side of? Anti-histimines? A sleeping tablet?

How warm, how kind, how utterly devious.

But sure it can’t ever happen - warboys didn’t drug his victims with champagne did he? Stanger didn’t? Sinaga didn’t? Robicheaux and Riley didn’t? 18 people in Newcastle didn’t? Gary & Heather Talbot didn’t?

Self-defence techniques are useless against those rapists who use drugs or alcohol to incapacity (& discredit) victims.

And with every rape their confidence grows.

Pepper spray wouldn’t have helped me know or defend myself against being drugged and raped. Nor the many, many, many other victims - some of whom - disabled or mentally incapacitated - would never be believed even if they could recall, or communicate what has happened to them.

Rape isn’t just dragged of the street by a stranger. It’s much more likely to be an acquaintance, a friend, a relative - the very man lying next to you at night.

It’s beyond depravity. And done in plain sight. And not investigated. And not convicted. And not punished - or even acknowledged. It’s inflicted on us in our ‘safest’ place.

Our own homes, our own beds, and by men we trust.

I encountered a very weird man in an M&S once. Really freaked me out and weirdly I felt embarrassed by what he was doing and then when I knew he was weird and was about to call him out he left the store so quick I didn’t see him go

@Ellabellaboo2020 I'm so sorry that happened to you!

OP, please report it if you can. It might be a pattern of behaviour from him.
In our town, after a series of reports of a man masturbating in a local park while watching female joggers. A policewoman started jogging around the area and she actually caught him.
Of course your man could have just been an insensitive idiot but he may well have more sinister intentions.

@CandyLeBonBon. I meant damaging to women - sorry, thought that was obvious.

@LyndzB. I agree to a point, but mental health is a big issue too and your response to my comment belittles those who suffer from it - how is that helpful exactly ?

That is definitely creepy

I knew there were some weird, creepy buggers but this!!!! Bastards. I'd like to employ a massive bloke to follow them and creep them out.