Do men know this is creepy?

[FlossieTeacakesFurCoat18]

Yesterday I was walking in woodland near my home, something I do regularly. I was approaching a gate leading to the lane and a guy was coming through it towards me. I glanced back once I was through the gate and he'd turned around and was now walking behind me. I stopped by a tree and pretended to be fiddling with my phone so I was facing him and kind of stared him down... He then made a 90 degree turn and went up the hill.

I don't think he was actually going to do anything sinister but surely guys know that you don't do an about-face and start following a woman you've just passed in a relatively remote space with no other people around? He wasn't a young lad who might not have realised this is scary for women, he was in his thirties.

I realise men can be clueless but is it possible to be THAT oblivious? Do they do it on purpose or am I paranoid after seeing screenshots from reddit users saying they get a kick out of following women and seeing them get nervous?

I have never heard of or experienced this, but that's bloody horrific.

Walking in single file was not offered as any sort of solution but as an example of male obliviousness to the needs and perspectives of other people and the impact of their behaviours on others.

Men do need to stop and have a think about those things. That is not optional, if women and girls are ever to feel safe and free.

Of course they do @lottiegarbanzo. And it will be the 'little things' that make it easier to start being more aware.

@PineappleCakes

Posted all over the place recently:

"No, not all men, but if I gave you a box of 20 maltesers and told you one of them was actually a ball of chocolate covered poo, you would be wary of them all."

OP

This is excellent

@lottiegarbanzo

Talking of going for walks in daytime, as we are, but very much at the low-key, everyday end of the spectrum, I realise I have a public information announcement to make:

Men! Learn to walk in single file, when you see people approaching on a narrow path or pavement. Thank you.

Also:

Men! Maintain awareness of your surroundings, such that you hear people coming up behind you, moving faster. Move aside (see 'single file' above) to let them past. Thank you.

Particularly but not only during lockdown, I have really, repeatedly, noticed the utter numptyish obliviousness of many, many men, both to other people and to the normal rules of public behaviour. Just clueless.

Women, on the other hand, are naturally listening out for people and naturally move aside. It is always the woman of a couple who moves into single file to allow others to pass.

It might seem a small thing but it isn't actually. Making space for other people, choosing not to dominate public space, is one of the smallest, simplest yet most significant things you could do.

Statements like yours are not helpful.

The maltersers analogy can be applied to anything, so someone who looks muslim should be viewed as a terrorist? That would be viewed as racist. Perhaps everyone who is wearing a hoodie is on drugs?

Not much point to this thread now is there? Not since men have spoken and told us women where we are going wrong. If only they could see what we could see about themselves. Sadly, they never will. Their sense of entitlement, misogyny and the need to take centre stage at all times is far too strong 🤯

@Ellabellaboo2020 - that’s horrific, I’m so sorry. I’d say that I hope you are OK, and I wish that you could be, but I know that this sort of thing will only make someone more nervous going about their normal, everyday business in the future.

This is why NAMALT really pisses me off. If not all men are like that, it’s a bit of a coincidence that 6 to 8 men who are like that managed to find each other and execute this kind of assault. Same with countlesss other incidences, like the Warwick University group chat scandal. Bit of a coincidence that that another group of young men managed to find themselves in a friendship group which enjoyed sharing fantasies about raping and torturing their female flatmates, isn’t it? I wonder how that happens?

No, it may not be every single man, but there are a shocking number of apparently normal men that are like that.

OP: This is the thing, it COULD have been innocent. Which is why I'd feel silly calling police -what an I going to tell them? "This guy walking in a public space changed direction and was walking the same way as me until I stopped and looked at him and then he changed direction again"

I think this is a key thing that we need to overcome, our self doubt and feeling silly, and start reporting if we find ourselves in situations that make us feel nervous or scared. No, the police wont come out to the woods/park/quiet street but if enough issues of 'off' behaviour start being reported it will flag up that there is a problem at least and that stops just some of the creeps in their tracks, or sharing posts like that awful screenshot, thats a benefit to us all.

*I think this is a key thing that we need to overcome, our self doubt and feeling silly, and start reporting if we find ourselves in situations that make us feel nervous or scared. No, the police wont come out to the woods/park/quiet street but if enough issues of 'off' behaviour start being reported it will flag up that there is a problem at least and that stops just some of the creeps in their tracks, or sharing posts like that awful screenshot, thats a benefit to us all.

^That’s a very good point.

@GCAcademic thank you so much. I hate to say it I really do but you are 100% right. I think it was the shock and adrenaline yesterday that I felt fine but it’s today it hitting me more tbh. Everything you said is spot on. Like I said in a previous post, we know it’s not all men but let’s be honest, this is only the stuff we’re hearing about never mind the stuff that women feel it was nothing at the time and feeling silly like the op did, stuff that women are silenced on because it’s their word against a mans and people don’t want trouble.

I’m am sick to the back teeth of hearing NAMALT! Believe it or not, women have brains too I know that’s hard to comprehend for some, but we do and we know this but will this make me feel any safer when out and about? Will me chanting to myself NAMALT when I feel uneasy when I’m walking on my own fix it and make me feel better about the guy walking behind me? No it won’t. Would I be saying NAMALT to a girl running in front of my dp when he’s out for a run and she feels scared? No!! Because she doesn’t know him from Adam how is she supposed to know he wouldn’t hurt her?! We don’t know which men are nice guys and which isn’t and that is why EVERY MAN that I do not know in my life personally on a good enough level I will treat with much more caution I think every other women should do the same. I will be bringing up my dd to do exactly that.

Why is it I never hear men saying they’re scared to go out after dark unless it’s in response to a woman saying she’s scared?

Nihonko I'm sort of interested to know why you think asking men to be more observant and considerate is not helpful, whereas I think it is the first step towards useful change but I'm actually rather dizzy from going around the same circle.

Similarly on a more macro scale and from a different angle, with every thread on this sort of topic. Men come on and talk about male-pattern violence against other men, making the huge and very wrong assumption that male violence against women is basically the same thing. They are oblivious to the reality of women's lives and the things that really constrain us and not particularly interested in finding out.

The problem is either too big, distant and scary for them to address individually (the psycho bogeyman did it), or too small for them to notice (or a woman suggested some solutions, so they didn't hear). It is never just the right size and within their reach.

I think that is really all I am interested in reading about from men now; hearing from those who have found out what the problem really is, found some workable proposals for tackling it, tried those and have something to say about how it went and what could work better.

Maybe he’d forgotten something and was heading back until he realised he’d scared you and so he went back uphill.
Men must have freedom of movement too.

I've had so many experiences like this, I had to explain to a man who started trying to chat me up as I walked across a park in the dark (stupid of me - never did it again). He was harmless in the end but when I said to him that he shouldn't approach women this way and it can unnerve them he was genuinely surprised, he'd never thought of it. Sadly also had many not so harmless experiences and as a result I don't walk is isolated places or at night.

Male entitlement. They've never had to fear women like we have them so just don't think at all.

@Toomuchtrouble4me

Men must have freedom of movement too

No-one is arguing that they shouldn't. What a fatuous thing to say.

@vimtosogood. It’s also possible that once the OP ‘stared him down’ he realised he may have been scaring her, and corrected himself. Few, if any posters on the thread think this may have been the case and that speaks volumes. I think we’re getting into very dangerous territory here.

I’m also fed up reading about the crap ‘Maltesers’ analogy. It doesn’t work - men generally don’t smell of shit.

Not every man, no: but an awful bloody high number of them are weird sadistic fucks

@TooMuchtrouble4me. The same thought struck me, but I see you’ve already been jumped on for expressing a thought which in any way supports men. Yes, some men are predators, but being thoughtless doesn’t put you in that category.

This is exactly the right moment to remember that aerosol of anti perspirant in your bag and spray the fucker full on in his face.

OP sorry to hear this

My thoughts of this kind of thing are always the same. He was going to assault you but changed his mind. He thought better of it. Be careful walking alone

If I 'know' I am being followed (doesn't happen now), I sharply turn round with a very determined look in my eye and follow them. They do not like it!

They probably don't bother now because I am a ratty haired bag lady with a 'bitch resting face' and low tolerance level of shit.

I realise it sounds like I am making light of this. I am not. My tolerance to this shit gets lower every year! I am sorry if it frightens some women.

YANBU he was a creep and he knew it - that's why they do it - don't let the b*stards off by imagining they don't know they do it - it makes them feel like "real men" to intimidate and scare women -

@21BumbleBees. And you don’t think it would be damaging for women to suddenly start reporting to the police every time they perceive a mans’ behaviour as ‘off’ ? If enough reported instances turn out to be innocent thoughtlessness, the label ‘hysterical’ will rear it’s bloody ugly head again and we’ll be back where we started.

@yellowlorry123

Not every man, no: but an awful bloody high number of them are weird sadistic fucks

Totally agree, when I was younger I was very much in the 'not all men' camp, now I'm in my 40's I know different.

I could list endless personal experiences, and the experiences of my friends but one look at police crime stats shows that violence and sexual assault is overwhelmingly committed by men and we are right to be afraid.

Also, I love animals, I'm a veggie, I'd never harm a living thing but I still approach strange dogs gently in the street as I am aware that some have had bad experiences with humans and I need to be empathetic to that so I don't alarm them. I don't think asking the same empathy of men when they approach women is too much to ask.