Do men know this is creepy?

[FlossieTeacakesFurCoat18]

Yesterday I was walking in woodland near my home, something I do regularly. I was approaching a gate leading to the lane and a guy was coming through it towards me. I glanced back once I was through the gate and he'd turned around and was now walking behind me. I stopped by a tree and pretended to be fiddling with my phone so I was facing him and kind of stared him down... He then made a 90 degree turn and went up the hill.

I don't think he was actually going to do anything sinister but surely guys know that you don't do an about-face and start following a woman you've just passed in a relatively remote space with no other people around? He wasn't a young lad who might not have realised this is scary for women, he was in his thirties.

I realise men can be clueless but is it possible to be THAT oblivious? Do they do it on purpose or am I paranoid after seeing screenshots from reddit users saying they get a kick out of following women and seeing them get nervous?

Gods Ellabella is horrific - so so sorry and hope you and DD ok (know you can't be but thank god you got rescued).

Yes this IS about how men bring up their sons. It is.

The good men need to make sure this is dealt with.

There are (electronic) posters for the White Ribbon charity.

Their hashtag is #AllMenCan and that's the point we're making.

All men can commit violence. That's not to say they will, but they can.

The charity is trying to get men to take the kind of responsibility for other men's behaviour - to challenge the attitudes of the men around them.

I doubt it will make much, if any, difference.

Some men are utter misogynists, most men don't realise the issue and think it's none of their business and we end up afraid of all men as a result.

If you don't do something about VAWG, then you too are part of the problem.

Thank you @Parkerwhereareyou we are both fine she’s a trooper was laughing and smiling away at the police officers not long after it happened she just got a fright at the time. But tbh it’s totally made me think twice about going out with on my own with her.

Like we have said time and time again of course it’s not all men but take accountability. Make small changes. Start bringing boys up better rather than with the thought that they are better than girls in every way. Teach better understanding. But with this constant not all men crap it’s never going to change is it.

* This is a MALE ISSUE!!! This is not for fucking women to yet again fucking sort. *

I disagree
Discrimination against disabled persons isn’t for disabled people to sort, racism isn’t for black people to sort....

It is a problem. It needs as much input and support as possible, from women AND men.

[quote MiaChia]@VenusTiger

And any other women who feel the need to say NAMALT. Please can you tell the rest of us, once and for all, how to spot predatory and potentially dangerous men? Do they have special tattoos? Or a particular type of haircut? Wear certain trainers? If only you would tell us we could once again step out into the world without fear. Eagerly anticipating your reply because it will be life changing. Thank you so much [/quote]
It's easy. Whenever you find yourself in a situation where you potentially feel a threat, you just repeat to yourself namalt 6 times and it instantly diffuses the situation, the potentially threatening man will back off and leave you alone. It's just about reminding the bad ones that good ones also exist. Easy.

@Ellabellaboo2020

The men on this thread seriously don’t get it. Yesterday I was out a walk with my 9mo dd in her pram, this was at 2:15pm in the afternoon. My dp was at his hobby not that it makes a difference as I SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE MY OWN DD FOR A FUCKING WALK AT 2:15 IN THE AFTERNOON WITHOUT FEELING SCARED!!! However that’s exactly how I felt in the end. As I was walking my dd fell asleep so I stopped to lay her down and pull the hood over but had noticed a group of 6-8 teenage boys about 16-18 I would say coming up behind me shouting and laughing. At this point I didn’t feel scared or anything but more aware of who was where ( there was a young couple walking their dog coming towards me in the other direction a fair bit away ) anyway, I started walking and these boys/fuckwits ran up to me, one grabbed my hair that was in a pony tail and pulled my head back and the one of the others grabbed the hood of my babies pram and pulled it back with such force it tipped the pram backwards so I was on the floor and so was my 9mo dd in her pram. The couple came running towards us, the guy tried to grab one of them but they got away and the girl came running to pick my dd up/help me and her exact words to her partner was “ see this is what I was saying, this is much more likely to happen to a women mark than it is to guys “ ( not his real name btw I’ve changed it ) police are investigating but I doubt they will be caught. The female police officer made a comment about seeing a rise in this sort of thing against women, like it gives them power over us. You wouldn’t get a group of girls that age doing that to another women. This is a MALE ISSUE!!! This is not for fucking women to yet again fucking sort. Have conversations with your other “ good guys “ and see how you can all fix it. I would suggest starting to raise your sons correctly from the start before it gets too far. We know it’s not every man, we are not stupid but we have been made to feel scared of every man we don’t know because of this kind of shit. THIS 👏🏻 IS 👏🏻 NOT 👏🏻 A 👏🏻 WOMENS 👏🏻 PROBLEM 👏🏻 TO 👏🏻 SORT!!

My god @Ellabellaboo2020 this is truly horrific. Absolutely horrific.

Just when you think you are so weary with the constant harassment and will never feel shocked again, you learn a rabble of teenage boys attack a mother and baby to prove that they can and to get a kick out of frightening them. Cunts.

Darn it, I thought I'd solved this one before I went to bed last night.

Men: Take a moment to consider your ordinary behaviours and how they might sometimes inadvertently alarm or intimidate women. Adjust them. This may inconvenience you slightly.

Also, adopt an attitude of awareness of your surroundings and the behaviour of other people, at all times of day, so that you could at least act as a witness, perhaps call the police, or, in a sufficiently low threat scenario, intervene in a low-key way e.g. speak to a woman who's being bothered, about something inane, to give her a 'get out' and a witness, then, once she's got out, leave her alone yourself.

Plus, challenge your friends if they're ever sleazy, creepy or adopt a pack mentality towards women.

Small, everyday actions, attitudes and adjustments.

All you're giving up is your right to obliviousness.

No psychos, no fights, no heroics.

Yet those last cartoon capers seem to be all that the men on thread want to talk about.

So that my constructive, logical, relevant, evidence-based proposals were ignored, even dismissed - by men who 'know better' despite, by their own evidence, knowing near nothing of what we speak.

Gah.

Ella that is dreadful. I can guarantee though some of the parents/relatives/friends of those idiots who attacked you will be the ones bleating NAMALT. Then saying How much they detest men who hit women......

I don't want to go into details because it's not my story, but a friend of mine was harassed and threatened by a group of teenage boys (aged about 15) when she was in a park with her young child the other day. What they were threatening was pretty horrible, but when she called the police they weren't interested. She said it was as if the boys had seen all the recent stories in the news about female lack of safety and been inspired by it. According to her local Facebook group, the same boys have been doing the same thing to women in the area, especially elderly women.

Talking of going for walks in daytime, as we are, but very much at the low-key, everyday end of the spectrum, I realise I have a public information announcement to make:

Men! Learn to walk in single file, when you see people approaching on a narrow path or pavement. Thank you.

Also:

Men! Maintain awareness of your surroundings, such that you hear people coming up behind you, moving faster. Move aside (see 'single file' above) to let them past. Thank you.

Particularly but not only during lockdown, I have really, repeatedly, noticed the utter numptyish obliviousness of many, many men, both to other people and to the normal rules of public behaviour. Just clueless.

Women, on the other hand, are naturally listening out for people and naturally move aside. It is always the woman of a couple who moves into single file to allow others to pass.

It might seem a small thing but it isn't actually. Making space for other people, choosing not to dominate public space, is one of the smallest, simplest yet most significant things you could do.

@lottiegarbanzo

Talking of going for walks in daytime, as we are, but very much at the low-key, everyday end of the spectrum, I realise I have a public information announcement to make:

Men! Learn to walk in single file, when you see people approaching on a narrow path or pavement. Thank you.

Also:

Men! Maintain awareness of your surroundings, such that you hear people coming up behind you, moving faster. Move aside (see 'single file' above) to let them past. Thank you.

Particularly but not only during lockdown, I have really, repeatedly, noticed the utter numptyish obliviousness of many, many men, both to other people and to the normal rules of public behaviour. Just clueless.

Women, on the other hand, are naturally listening out for people and naturally move aside. It is always the woman of a couple who moves into single file to allow others to pass.

It might seem a small thing but it isn't actually. Making space for other people, choosing not to dominate public space, is one of the smallest, simplest yet most significant things you could do.

What. The. Hell?

A very serious issue undermined by talk it’d men being the ones they are inconsiderate in not waking faster or moving aside or going in single file.

As though women don’t do this. Equally (more in my experience!)

Imagine! Being considerate to other people.

It’s what makes it difficult for progress to ever be made

Inane comments filter in to debate about men dawdling or being poor at stacking the dishwasher - and eventually the discussion is diluted to such an extent that it dries up

@ButIcantsitonleather I honestly didn’t think things could get any worse. I have been catcalled, groped in nightclubs when I was younger, I was even at a job once that the pig of a boss said to the staff we could sell more product because they have a natural page 3 model working for him because of the size of my chest to which he got told to shove his job up his arse, but all that I took in my stride and just kept going, I don’t know if it’s because society has made women believe we need to put up and shut up and just get on with it but now I have my own dd it’s donned on me even now in 2021, this attitude is never going to change. It’s sad.

@Onlinedilema I was saying this to my partner. The parents would be like never my boy, my boy respects women he would never do a thing like that but that’s the point though isn’t it it is someone’s son, brother, uncle etc. Like I said I know it’s not all men there is a lovely young boy who stays 2 doors up from us he really is such a nice guy I know he wouldn’t hurt a fly however, after what’s happened to me yesterday, if he approached me with a group of males I would be really scared tbh.

@EsmaCannonball I wonder if we’re in the same part of the country.

It's easy. Whenever you find yourself in a situation where you potentially feel a threat, you just repeat to yourself namalt 6 times and it instantly diffuses the situation, the potentially threatening man will back off and leave you alone. It's just about reminding the bad ones that good ones also exist. Easy.

If only. And even when you think you’ve found a good man, you can’t know for sure. My DM thought she’d found a decent man who was a wonderful father and husband. In reality, he was sexually abusing my DSis and me. She had no idea what was going on.

I’ve found a genuinely lovely DH, who really is a lovely dad; he’s proved that to me over our 18 years together.

Does that mean that I’m a much better judge of character than my DM was? I really don’t think so. It’s impossible to know for sure.

The fact that people are reading this thread and their takeaway is NAMALT/men are victims too, is both predictable and infuriating.

At best it's derailing an important conversation, which makes you part of the problem. At worst it's trolling, and you can just fuck off with that.

As for the men who claim to be here to 'learn', well maybe you should try taking on board what women are saying instead of just asking questions then explaining why their answers are wrong. If I saw any evidence of a learning curve I might actually believe you're genuine.

I always wonder how these people inevitably show up on every one of these threads. But that's the point isn't it? To let us know we can't get away from them.

I fear it is truly at the point that we’re going to have to wear subtle body-worn cameras. They’ll have to be subtle, or men and boys will see them as a reason to attack us (verbally, physically, mentally) as well as just because of our sex. The cameras won’t protect us, far from it, but they just might capture the genuine pieces of shit doing this so just maybe the police will be able to do something about it.

Also if one more man and man apologist comes onto this thread to explain to us simple creatures why our own fears and the lengths we go to to protect ourselves are unnecessary because NAMALT, I’m going to go full (harridan, banshee, hysterical, emotional, hormonal etc)

Erm @Lentillover1900 Maybe read my other contributions to the thread too.

But anyway, suggesting that men stop dominating public space and show consideration towards women is not trivial or distracting. It is the everyday basis of the topic at hand.

And for all the 'know better' men on the thread, talking about biffing / being beaten up by baddies at night but who struggle to make any connection between what women are saying and their own everyday lives, a simple, everyday thing, like being aware of your surroundings and learning not to dominate public space (starting with noticing that you're doing it) is a practical step they can take.

From that follows a wider awareness of other people's behaviours and what is going on around them. At the moment, they're so very oblivious.

But being aware of your surroundings
Dawdling
Not being considerate by going single file

This is most definitely 100% NOT a gender issue. Women are most definitely equally likely to do this.

This is about being inconsiderate.
An affliction that both genders can suffer from equally

I wholeheartedly disagree with you Lentillover1900

Both in terms of gendered behaviour and in terms of the fundamental significance of being considerate to this discussion.

If all the good men stopped (often inadvertently) behaving as if they own public space, we'd all be able to spot the bad ones more easily and with confidence. (OP would have called the police, not posted here).

If all the good men became a bit more aware of what's going on around them, a bit less oblivious, they'd be the ones calling the police (or other appropriate action) a lot more of the time.

I do not believe that some of the actions recommended here ie walk in single file are really helping the issue. I agree that violence is a problem and that sexual violence is predominately aimed at women, I understand that in many part of the UK some women feel frightened when walking alone. These issues need to be tackled. I do not believe that all men are the same nor that all women are the same. I know some people have cited how it is good manners for men not to get lifts if there is a lone female there and crossing the road if its dark and lonely - I have never really thought about that and have never felt that should be what males ought to do. I think in today's climate I would maybe advise them to but if they didn't feel it they should it is up to them.