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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teacher asked my daughter if she needs a butler because she is doing the 11 plus

203 replies

Scubadivinginabox · 25/03/2021 20:05

We live in an area where there is no 11 plus and thinking of moving to a more rural location near family. Because it's the grammar system there we signed my daughter up for some online classes to work towards the 11 plus. If she gets in great. If not, we'll move there anyway and she can go to the local comp.
No-one where we live has any concept of what the 11 plus involves or the amount of prep work. We haven't told many people that she's doing it because we don't know if she's going to pass and everyone asking how she did is not going to make her feel better if she doesn't get in.
We told my daughter's teacher in confidence at a phone call parents evening. Since then he has mentioned it to the class several times (I overheard on zoom a couple of times) and today he asked my daughter if she needed a butler because she was getting private tuition. WTF?
He is known for his edgy smart alec comments but I feel this time he's just gone too far. Surely as her teacher he should be supporting one of his pupils who is working hard? AIBU?

OP posts:
Feelinghothothottoday · 26/03/2021 10:45

My child passed the 11+ in Kent. Where is my butler - is it part of the package? As a full time single parent I could do with their help. Do they also clean the loo?

VestaTilley · 26/03/2021 10:51

YANBU. He’s way out of line, unprofessional and bullying.

He’s also ignorant- grammars aren’t private schools!

Complain to the Head, and his direct line manager, and ask for a response in writing or you’ll alert the governors.

Scubadivinginabox · 26/03/2021 11:06

@Wondergirl100
I totally agree. The schools around here are terrible and a lot of people move house for secondary but I have friends who think we should all stay so our bright kids can bring the local schools up. But would you really let your child be stuck in a sink school to do this?

OP posts:
Scubadivinginabox · 26/03/2021 11:08

I've emailed the teacher to ask him not to mention the tutoring in front of the class again and asking for his support. I was very measured but inside I'm still raging! We'll see what he says and I'll decide whether to take it further from there.

Thank you so much to everyone who has taken the time to reply to this thread with all your different views. We don't know anyone else who is taking the 11 plus and it's been a bit of a lonely journey! Thanks for all your well wishes for my DD. Really, really appreciated.

OP posts:
rosiejaune · 26/03/2021 13:37

@Scubadivinginabox

*betterfantasia*

What a dreadful, 'know your place' culture your DD is learning in. Well done for trying to get her out of it.

Thank you. Yes, I'll admit there is an element of this in us wanting to move. There are no good secondary schools near us. The school is in an area that has changed and you can see a demographic shift with more MC kids in the lower years and more WC further up the school. This teacher has been at the school for over 20 years. There's zero aspiration. Yes, I want to get her out of here.

@rosiejaune* YANBU for not liking how the teacher has behaved, but YABU for saying the 11+ is such hard work. If it is, maybe they shouldn't be taking it.*

I don't get this because there is a ^massive^ academic difference between the lessons at my DD's school and the standard that's required for the 11 plus. And this is a good school according to Ofsted. They rarely get homework. They are not pushed at all if they are bright. Is that her fault? You don't think she should be given the opportunity to learn more than the expected basics? Yes ideally she should have had such a great primary school education that she shouldn't need tutoring but that's not the reality. Even the exceptional kids are being tutored.
And yes, working before and after school every day at 10 years old to keep up with the amount of homework the tutor sets is definitely hard work, for parents too.
The whole thing is bonkers really.

The lessons I did at primary school were nothing like the 11+ either. But the questions on the 11+ aren't the sort of things you need to practice; if you have the appropriate mindset, you will be able to answer them without preparation. I did a few practice papers to get familiar with the types of questions, but I didn't have tutoring or do any other work.

And if they don't naturally think like that, they probably won't thrive at a grammar school, pushed or not.

There is nothing wrong with having different skills and aptitudes, or going to a comprehensive; people can do well academically there too. Grammar schools aren't inherently better, just different.

toconclude · 26/03/2021 13:40

[quote cinnamonchips]@GreenSlide so that means that every grammar school in the country must have the same kind of teachers?! Hmm[/quote]
Mine were too, 😁

iMatter · 26/03/2021 13:41

Snarky bastard

I would definitely complain

OwlBeThere · 26/03/2021 14:14

@Lochmorlich ‘any dp can tutor their kid for 11+‘

Your privilege is showing. There are dozens of reasons that’s not true.

CecilyP · 26/03/2021 14:24

My child passed the 11+ in Kent. Where is my butler - is it part of the package? As a full time single parent I could do with their help. Do they also clean the loo?

Most certainly not! Their main job is to supervise all the other servants. I doubt if many of the families who send their kids to Eton on full fees actually have a butler!

CecilyP · 26/03/2021 14:30

The lessons I did at primary school were nothing like the 11+ either. But the questions on the 11+ aren't the sort of things you need to practice; if you have the appropriate mindset, you will be able to answer them without preparation. I did a few practice papers to get familiar with the types of questions, but I didn't have tutoring or do any other work.

Being able to answer the questions is one thing. Being able to answer more questions in the allotted time is what preparation and practice enable. At the end of the day, it is a competition and results are decided at the margin. The fact you did a few practice papers, especially if marked as you went along, put you at an advantage over anyone who did no practice at all.

ktp100 · 26/03/2021 14:44

Speak to the school, OP.

You told him that in confidence & either way, he should not be encouraging this kind of piss-taking in lessons.

When I was teaching I loved a bit of banter with the kids. This is too far, though.

Time for an official complaint.

MadKittenWoman · 26/03/2021 18:33

I tutor for the 11+ in an area where there are no grammar schools, but most secondary schools are dire and the few that aren't are massively oversubscribed and / or have tiny catchment areas or entry based on a lottery. Some parents, especially those of children with SpLDs such as dyslexia, or are not NT, want to send their children to one of the many local private / independent schools as they feel that their child will benefit from the smaller class sizes and pastoral care. Children who may be considered 'odd' by their peers in the state system can often thrive in a more academic atmosphere which would be considered uncool in some state schools.

A child with excellent maths and English skills stands a chance of gaining entry to one of these schools without tutoring if their parents have the time, ability and money for resources to teach their children verbal and non-verbal reasoning for the exams. Schools simply do not have time in the curriculum, nor the inclination, to teach these skills. 11+ candidates also need to have resilience, organisational and study skills, which I teach as part of the preparation. A fairly average-to bright child can do very well if they have the right attitude and work ethic, much better than a very bright child who is lazy or unprepared.

To clarify, I was an upper-working class child of European immigrants who passed the 11+ back in the 1970s in my home city. I went to a Catholic convent, direct grant, single-sex girls' school, run by nuns, which was an absolute nightmare for my mental health, but great for teaching girls they could be anything they wanted. It took me several years to sort myself out, though. My husband, on the other hand, has undiagnosed dyslexia and dyspraxia, failed his 11+ and went to a technical school, but is so bloody-minded that he went to University, achieved a doctorate and is now internationally renowned in his field.

Our son was identified as G & T at primary school, and was only one of two of his friendship group who went the the local outstanding state school as we happen to live two streets away, and we all (him included) wanted him to go to a school where he could meet different types of people, as neither of us had a private school background. He is currently in his 3rd year of a 4-year degree at a Russell Group University and is set to get a first.

I suppose why I'm trying to say is that teachers are treated so badly and standards are so low in the state system that, even though I don't agree with private education, I see why some parents choose it and if they're going to have someone to support their children in achieving this, it may as well be me.

The teacher shouldn't have raised it publicly, though, and I would definitely

MadKittenWoman · 26/03/2021 18:34

have a word with the teacher if it has happened more than once.

RosesAndHellebores · 26/03/2021 19:57

"Teacher, leave them kids alone
Hey Teacher. Leave them kids alone

Ladywinesalot · 27/03/2021 02:18

Complain to the Head and to who ever is above the Head of his bullying behaviour.

He is jealous that your daughter has prospects and he has none.

Willowkins · 27/03/2021 03:05

We live in a not-very-nice area that nevertheless has 7 grammar schools so lots of local kids (and some that live far away) take the 11+ It's completely normal here. Not a butler in sight.

jessstan2 · 27/03/2021 07:22

MadKittenWoman: I suppose why I'm trying to say is that teachers are treated so badly and standards are so low in the state system that, even though I don't agree with private education, I see why some parents choose it and if they're going to have someone to support their children in achieving this, it may as well be me.
..

I agree with that and did the same. One cannot prioritise theoretical principles above the wellbeing of children. we live in the here and now.

CuthbertDibbleandGrubb · 27/03/2021 07:48

I think you have been kind in your response to the teacher by not going straight to the head. I hope it means the matter is never brought up again in the hearing or presence of other children.

jessstan2 · 27/03/2021 08:25

No, I wouldn't regardless of how I may feel about inequalities. You have to do what you can for your children.

As someone said above, you were kind to the teacher. I'd have been livid and gone to see him personally but your way was probably best. He was well out of order.

LittleBearPad · 27/03/2021 08:29

If there are any more comments pre-Easter complain to the Head, if nothing happens the governors and Ofsted. Teachers cannot be allowed to bully children.

Jennyennidots · 27/03/2021 08:35

You’ve been very measured. To me the sneery put-down tone of the “joke” would bother me much more than the fact that he mentioned the tutoring. What a sad little man he is.

echt · 27/03/2021 08:38

He is jealous that your daughter has prospects and he has none

Is this how you regard teachers?

And anyway, can you read his mind? No, you can't.

Knitterbabe · 27/03/2021 08:39

@Ladywinesalot

Complain to the Head and to who ever is above the Head of his bullying behaviour.

He is jealous that your daughter has prospects and he has none.

Well, that says a lot about your view of teaching! Presumably the OP wants her child to attend grammar school to proceed to university and get a degree. To qualify and train for a career. The teacher has already achieved this. Why on earth would he be ‘jealous’ of the child?
Miljea · 27/03/2021 09:50

babalouschka Q: "MrsBertBibby
He needs to go meet some 11+ kids from Kent, or even better, Medway.

They are truly not posh.

What a twat
I second that, the grammar school kids here would rip him to shreds."

They sound charming! You'd imagine with their intelligence they'd be capable of better ripostes than 'ripping to shreds', wouldn't you?

HappydaysArehere · 27/03/2021 09:58

That sounds completely unacceptable and not the behaviour I would expect from any school teacher worth his/her salt. If that was me I would have a word with him.

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