Teacher asked my daughter if she needs a butler because she is doing the 11 plus

[Scubadivinginabox]

We live in an area where there is no 11 plus and thinking of moving to a more rural location near family. Because it's the grammar system there we signed my daughter up for some online classes to work towards the 11 plus. If she gets in great. If not, we'll move there anyway and she can go to the local comp.
No-one where we live has any concept of what the 11 plus involves or the amount of prep work. We haven't told many people that she's doing it because we don't know if she's going to pass and everyone asking how she did is not going to make her feel better if she doesn't get in.
We told my daughter's teacher in confidence at a phone call parents evening. Since then he has mentioned it to the class several times (I overheard on zoom a couple of times) and today he asked my daughter if she needed a butler because she was getting private tuition. WTF?
He is known for his edgy smart alec comments but I feel this time he's just gone too far. Surely as her teacher he should be supporting one of his pupils who is working hard? AIBU?

@MissyB1

He’s clearly got a massive chip on his shoulder, you should ask him if needs some salt and vinegar for it.

Seriously though complain to the head. Mr Chip might also be belittling other kids.

He probably failed the 11+!

@Strangekindofwoman

If she needs online lessons and tutoring perhaps a grammar school is not for her.

After all maybe all the 'bright WC kids' parents can't compete with that financially.

Where I grew up nearly all the kids who get in to both the grammar schools had tutors. They take the top however many, so if bright kids are being tutored and getting better marks, then everyone else gets a tutor to keep up.

Start by looking at the school's bullying policy, which should be on the website. Make a complaint based on the paragraphs that he has breached.

The 11+ is not a thing in a lot of the country, thank god. He probably didn't even take the 11+.

[quote Scubalubs87]@MrsBertBibby

I benefitted from a Kent grammar school education and have taught many children who've gone on to Kent and Medway grammars. Can confirm definitely not posh. I've seen some insanely bright, working class kids claw themselves grammar school places.

The teacher was definitely out of order and needs to keep his personal views out of any comments he makes to your daughter. I too would suggest speaking to the head.[/quote]
It's the same round here, Bromley and Bexley areas. We have good grammars and children are selected on ability only, not background.

@phlebasconsidered

Usually in every year group there's an average kid who will get into grammar because the parents pay for tutoring. And two or three who are head and shoulders above that kid who won't because they can't tutor to the very specific test, the kid is entirely responsible for themselves because their parents are shiftworkers/ EAL/ not interested/ can't spare the time because they are flat out/ dealing with social service/immigration/housing etc etc etc.

So yes, I understand that teacher. Utterly. I have taught many amazing, brilliant, truly deserving kids in my 2 decade career and none of them have "benefitted" from a grammar school.

I see. So your disapproval of the system and/or the decision of a young child’s parents to pay for tutoring gives you (or any other teacher)- as adults- the right to make what at best could be considered belittling remarks to a 10/11 year old girl and at worst could be seen as bullying her? Over something said child has literally NO control over. How pathetic, unprofessional and disgraceful.

Frankly, your (or any teacher’s) view on this matter is totally irrelevant- it’s not your place to approve or disapprove, to pass judgment or comment. You are entitled to your own personal view, of course, but a professional would keep this view to themselves in these circumstances and be supportive of a child who is working hard.

If I have understood you correctly, and you do actually feel that the reasons you have given mean that this teacher was justified in belittling and upsetting (possibly even bullying) a child because her parents have arranged a tutor, then I think you should be ashamed of yourself.

She shouldn’t be treated like that even if she was “posh”, even if she did have a butler.

Ignore any comments about thicker skin. My DC goes to a grammar and it’s lovely with no sarky teachers at all. Many friends kids didn’t pass and they managed just fine. No thick skin needed if you find the best non grammar school and don’t make a big deal of it.
What this teacher said is appalling. I would hit the roof. Teachers are meant to set high expectations and applaud kids striving for more, for better.
Awful comment

What I don't understand is why 11+ counties like Kent and Bucks where the Grammar/Sec Mod system is still the default don't allow the schools to teach for the 11+. In my day, when that was the system in most of the country, schools most certainly did. At least that levelled the playing field a bit. Mind you the children who were likely to pass the 11+ got picked out pretty quickly at junior school and probably got more encouragement.

OP

I would make a formal complaint. On 2 counts. Firstly, your daughter’s teacher was told about this in confidence and asked not to mention it in class. He has not only ignored this request, he has broadcast it several times that you are aware of. Furthermore, he has used this information to deliberately ridicule a young child for whom he is supposed to be an encouraging, reliable/safe person in that child’s life. Which brings us to the second point- these comments are designed to ridicule, belittle and upset your daughter because he clearly has a chip on his shoulder about the 11+ and/or disagrees with tutoring. That is not acceptable behaviour from a teacher towards a pupil under any circumstances. He needs to be pulled up on it.

I’m not sure I’d simply complain to this teacher- who knows what he’ll say to your DD when no-one else is there to hear if you do? I would also flag up to your daughter that if he does say anything like this again, then she should let you know.

@Thehop

He’s bullying and belittling her. Go to the head. Vile behaviour.

I would, these are gross comments.

@phlebasconsidered it's teachers with your judgemental attitude that worry me.

Tutoring for the 11 plus can only help with time management and the format of the questions. Children still have to be of a certain standard to understand and answer correctly. Any dp can tutor their own dc for 11 plus. Its not difficult to get practice papers.

@phlebasconsidered

Usually in every year group there's an average kid who will get into grammar because the parents pay for tutoring. And two or three who are head and shoulders above that kid who won't because they can't tutor to the very specific test, the kid is entirely responsible for themselves because their parents are shiftworkers/ EAL/ not interested/ can't spare the time because they are flat out/ dealing with social service/immigration/housing etc etc etc.

So yes, I understand that teacher. Utterly. I have taught many amazing, brilliant, truly deserving kids in my 2 decade career and none of them have "benefitted" from a grammar school.

I'd seriously question why state school teachers can't teach bright children towards passing 11+. We're always told how it's a normal part of a teacher's job to differentiate and to stretch the brightest pupils: isn't teaching them the material to pass the 11+ if they want to try just as valid a means of stretching them as anything else?

I worked in Education for a long time. This is totally unacceptable. I would complain to the Headteacher but I would also want a Governor present. Children should be encouraged. It is very much the buzz word/ phrase to “ Be the best you can be.” He certainly isn’t encouraging your child to be the best she can be.
One of the schools that I worked in was very mixed with a lot of children from an area of deprivation( this was an Ofsted description) but we had one little girl who worked very hard, harder than most.She spoke another language at home but was the most fluent reader in the class from 6 year old. Wrote the most wonderful stories, was very artistic and excelled at Maths. She passed her SATs with 6s the highest we had ever had and she was able to go to the Grammar school in another town. We were all delighted for her and so were her classmates.She is excelling there according to a classmate that I know.

Lots of the children gained good marks because we encouraged them some of them went on to University ( the first in the family) or worked their way up. One of them was my Bank Manager for a few years. Some went into trades and are doing well.

Encourage your child and tell her to just do her best. I hope she passes and gets in.

We had a teacher like this, he thought he was cool, actually he was just bullying children, he asked an overweight girl in my class when she said she'd been bowling at the weekend for her birthday, if she was the ball, we were about 13.
I'd ask the head what their views are on grown men belittling little girls.

The teacher was entirely out of order.

Usually I'd say raise it first with him, but the breaking of a confidence and the repeated, ill-judged "ribbing", so close to bullying as makes no difference, of the child merits taking it upstairs.

@Strangekindofwoman I really regretted my use of the word claw as soon as I posted as It was totally the wrong choice to convey what I actually meant. Perhaps, for the super selective in other parts of the county and country, working class kids do have to claw places. But, in my part of urban Kent, lots of working class kids pass - many of them untutored. I still don't know whether I agree with grammars - and I hugely benefited from attending one - but, there are areas in which working class children are gaining places.

He has broken the law (breach of confidence) and could be sued. Secondly he has no idea! Grammar schools have children of various kinds in them. I would not use them as they are state schools and I pay school fees and even paying fees I don't have a butler so not sure what he is on about.

As you say he's taking the "joking" a bit far. Just have a word with him and I'm sure he will be apologetic and realise his error.

@Scubadivinginabox

Thanks so much for all your comments and support. This 11 plus thing is difficult enough without his 'funny' comments. I won't involve the head just yet but see what he says. I think maybe he does have a chip on his shoulder or thinks it's a private school she's going to. We're not paying for the tuition, her granddad is. We can't afford it. Or a butler's wages come to that.

You should train your DD to reply “yes, actually a butler would be lovely. Are you asking because you’d like to apply?”

I’m joking btw. But you are so not BU. Totally inappropriate on his part.

That is bullying. And by a teacher. By all means, in this instance, contact the school's headmaster and make a formal complaint. Bullying by teachers is unacceptible.

@Mamanyt

That is bullying. And by a teacher. By all means, in this instance, contact the school's headmaster and make a formal complaint. Bullying by teachers is unacceptible.

SPIT..."unacceptable." I do my best proof-reading immediately after hitting "send."

What a dick.

*phlebasconsidered(

Usually in every year group there's an average kid who will get into grammar because the parents pay for tutoring. And two or three who are head and shoulders above that kid who won't because they can't tutor to the very specific test, the kid is entirely responsible for themselves because their parents are shiftworkers/ EAL/ not interested/ can't spare the time because they are flat out/ dealing with social service/immigration/housing etc etc etc.

So yes, I understand that teacher. Utterly. I have taught many amazing, brilliant, truly deserving kids in my 2 decade career and none of them have "benefitted" from a grammar school.

So on this point, now there are pupil premium places and there should be more with grammar school placements, but the scenario is that the state school teacher does not prep kids for the 11 plus, and so how do these low income families learn about these places? How do they learn about fully funded private places? Well in more experience they don't.

Ofcourse you have working class and immigrant families who are very hot on the 11 plus and tutor their kids or pay for a tutor. But in my experience there are brilliant kids who miss out. I find the entire system ridiculous and yes I am someone who could afford to spend time looking at the process and my child got into some really excellent schools.

phlebasconsidered wrote the first 2 paragraphs and I tried to answer with the last 2 paragraphs in my post. Obviously I am not grammar material though!