To think Scottish Independence would be like a second Brexit?

[MinnieMous3]

Inspired by another thread, do you think Scottish Independence would be like a second Brexit?

As in, independence for independence’s sake rather than because it will actually benefit the country, leaving everyone in an expensive mess?

There seem to be so many parallels - a leader who is good at the battle cry but seems unable to produce a clear plan of what would happen afterwards, paranoia that the union in question is ‘out to get’ them in some way, and complete denial of the perks of being part of it.

I know this may get heated so please play nicely!

Well @Babdoc I know that you are a very intelligent woman (I'm a longtime poster recent name changer) but you're not an economist. In 2014 many economists were saying it was completely viable. I know that there was an opposing view also.

The financial aspect is my one small doubt about independence but I will wait until the analysis of the current situation is completed before making my final decision.

With regards to Scotland driving businesses away I think they would do anything to do the opposite so wouldn't take anything off the table including slashing corp tax.

To be fair, there is a lot of basic training available for people wanting to set up a small business, or who have recently done so. And it's free of charge. This has been stopped in England.

But the measures being taken against small hospitality businesses shows a real lack of concern for the hospitality industry and tourism in Scotland.

If Scotland went independent I would like it to be a neutral country, like Switzerland ( but without the Nazi gold), so we wouldn’t waste so much money on the military. The rest of the UK are free to move their nukes to wherever suits them best.

@WeeMadArthur I would love to be rid of them. I really would. There's just no need and the expense is eye watering.

I would be way more up for the independence debate if we weren't in the middle of a pandemic.

It pisses me off to high heaven when families are struggling so much just to feed their children that the SG are planning on wasting millions on another bloody vote potentially followed by billions in years of negotiations!

Brexit has taught us that it's a very very expensive process.
2014 referendum taught us that there is no plan for currency and that we would be blocked by Spain from joining the EU for a considerable time period.

Brexit has shown all the trade issues which occur.
There is zero information on how the economy will survive or function relying on oil is a no go. Electricity well England doesn't need Scotlands wind farms they have their own and can easily build more.
Water yep maybe big tariffs put on that.

I think with independence debate you get a large majority of vocal people who believe in independence at any cost.
I don't. I believe if it's right for the country and sustainable, not going to plunge the economy into tatters and people further into poverty.

In the middle of a pandemic when the economy is already on its arse and people are in bad poverty as a result no I don't believe it's right to start up with independence referendum again and drive away investment. As at the end of the day large companies want stability and certainty and a referendum vote with not even a certainty on what currency is the polar opposite of that!

I think Scottish independence is a matter for people who reside (or are from) Scotland

Yet so many English people have opinions on it, I hope we can grow out of the colonial attitude

@Tagagzjskva

I think Scottish independence is a matter for people who reside (or are from) Scotland

Yet so many English people have opinions on it, I hope we can grow out of the colonial attitude

So you think the EU should have no opinion on Brexit either?

Has it occurred to you just how much it would affect England and Wales? Or is Scotland suddenly all that matters?

If Independence is voted for and agreed, etc, then I think it would be much more complicated because Scotland does not have its own currency.
Also there are Government departments, such as DVLC, HMRC, Social Security, which I believe are for the whole UK.(I could be wrong on this.).
So, I actually think there would need to be a longer transition or negotiation, than with Brexit.
Secondly, just as with Northern Ireland, there would need to be a border. I understand that there are roads which currently criss cross the border, so I think this would need to be looked at acrefully.

If there is another IndyRef I hope to god it isn’t run like the Brexit one. I would hope that all the facts and figures being bandied about by both sides can be checked and verified by neutral parties so that it’s clear what the impact of leaving will actually be. I would like to know for a fact what chance Scotland had of joining the EU again before the vote, what impact it would have on taxes, trade etc. The last thing we need is another stab in the dark vote.

I imagine it would also be a nightmare to actually do, logistically.

Also I didn’t want Brexit and don’t want Scotland to leave. But that’s just me (I’m English - although I’m not really, I always put British in the forms as I’m part English, part Welsh and several parts foreign).

How can empires of any sort be justified in this day and age?

@Mylovelyhorsee

How can empires of any sort be justified in this day and age?

Is the EU an empire?

But @Scottishskifun if we don't deal with it then we're stuck for eternity with a government who don't give a shit about people struggling to feed their families.

@forfucksakenett

But *@Scottishskifun* if we don't deal with it then we're stuck for eternity with a government who don't give a shit about people struggling to feed their families.

So the answer is to plunge into worse economic ruin????

@MinnieMous3 I was talking about Britain. Your thread is about Scotland leaving Britain? You can say oh no but northern Irish people are British. No they aren’t, they’re Irish, or welsh people are British, again no, welsh and so on. I can’t see any argument justifying having a “Great Britain” which is basically a throwback from Imperial Britain.

@forfucksakenett

But *@Scottishskifun* if we don't deal with it then we're stuck for eternity with a government who don't give a shit about people struggling to feed their families.

Hardly stuck for eternity given the last referendum was in 2014 and that one was apparently once in a generation!

I don't believe in independence at any cost sorry! Large businesses will not invest if there is instability and many will leave we know this from the last referendum.

When the economy is on its knees and large parts are propped up by furlough now is definitely not the right time for it.

The SG love to blame Westminster for so many things but we are in control of large amounts of budget and many pay more taxes than in the rUK. But the SG did nothing in early Dec to help when furlough was tailoring off leading to further redundancies yet magically had enough money to give £500 to NHS workers and now a 4% pay rise. I'm not saying the NHS didn't deserve it they bloody do but it's about point scoring for votes when they did nothing to even help anyone in early Dec.

So no I don't believe in voting for a party which believes that independence should be at any cost when the country is on its arse, education is a mess and food banks have trebled. Money should be spent improving the shit storm we find ourselves in!

We know it will cost billions Brexit has taught us that and it's Scotland that's going to pay for it. England are hardly going to say yeah sure we will pay half the fee it's like Donald Trump insisting that Mexico would pay for his sodding wall!

Billions could be spent improving childrens lives now.

So - if there is to be an indyref every ten years or so, should independence happen, would there be a vote every 10 years about rejoining?

It just seems the pro indy types want repeated referendums until they get what they want, but then want to close the book.

[quote Mylovelyhorsee]@MinnieMous3 I was talking about Britain. Your thread is about Scotland leaving Britain? You can say oh no but northern Irish people are British. No they aren’t, they’re Irish, or welsh people are British, again no, welsh and so on. I can’t see any argument justifying having a “Great Britain” which is basically a throwback from Imperial Britain.[/quote]
Because that’s the name of the bloody island? Not an empire?

NI isn’t in Great Britain, it is however in the U.K., which is what I assume you’re referring to.

Get your facts right if you’re going to make such ludicrous assertions.

@Scottishskifun we'll need to agree to disagree. We're in charge of sticking plasters for poverty- education, health. We're not in charge of the mechanisms to help the poorest in society.

For as long as we have a Tory government they will have benefit cuts, sanctions and bedroom tax. The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer.

The once in a generation phrase was part of the campaign to get people to vote. It wasn't a legally binding promise. It wasn't even a promise. There has also been a significant material changes since then.

@Tagagzjskva

I think Scottish independence is a matter for people who reside (or are from) Scotland

Yet so many English people have opinions on it, I hope we can grow out of the colonial attitude

Some of the non-Scots upthread (myself included though I'm not actually in England) said that Scexit would be a price worth paying if we didn't have to listen to St Nicola anymore.

But we saw from Megxit that we still have to have whinging plastered all over the news no matter what country they are in.

[quote Mylovelyhorsee]@MinnieMous3 I was talking about Britain. Your thread is about Scotland leaving Britain? You can say oh no but northern Irish people are British. No they aren’t, they’re Irish, or welsh people are British, again no, welsh and so on. I can’t see any argument justifying having a “Great Britain” which is basically a throwback from Imperial Britain.[/quote]
What, are you talking about, Welsh people are British just like the Prussians, Austrians and Bavarians are Germanic. Actually the Welsh are more British than the English are, if you look at the history of the languages - I always laugh when English people moan about people speaking foreign languages when they are speaking Anglo-Saxon with some Norman French thrown in.

The once in a generation phrase was part of the campaign to get people to vote. It wasn't a legally binding promise.
Perhaps it could have been painted on the side of a bus then.

All of this is proving the OP's point in the title of the thread. Substitute "UK leaving EU" with "Scotland leaving UK" and you can see that the whole thing is pretty much the same as the Brexit campaign, only on steroids.

This is a really interesting thread....so much angst about Scotland having to go it alone and have to join the EU and how hard it would be...ladies just look towards our close neighbour, Ireland! They seem to be coping with their European Commissioner, 13 MEPs, their euro, their seat at the top table of the EU, their special relationship with the US, their freedom of movement across 27 Member States, opportunities for their kids, their language, their distinct culture and music and food and countryside and urban areas and post industrial zones...to quote Winnie Ewing: "stop the world, Scotland wants to get on"

Not a fan of Scottish independence nor was I a fan of Brexit tbf. I do wonder if the way SNP are treating women will be their downfall tbh. I liked the HoL debate on women recently and it finally felt like the adults were in the room. Wouldn't be in a hurry to vote them away.