My husband says “notallmen”

[Lastchancesalonco]

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

Show him this

@TheABC
Because 'low level' harassment or stalking they're not interested in. I used to practically scream, what does he have to do, beat me up? And basically yes. Even then was hard to prove. The evidence required for stalking, evidence the woman has to provide, is huge.
Only when they try to kill you or you have a witness then it seems serious enough.
Even then the evidence can be torn apart.

"I think saying all men should have a curfew is ridiculous . Be honest how would you feel if it was all women at home by 6 pm ?"

🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️ you've completely missed the point @VictoriaBun

@ifailed 'racism' is the belief in the superiority of one race over others. Not all white people are racist. Not all men are sexist. Not all straight people are homophobic. All of these people are privileged and benefit from a system stacked in their favour. Some of them recognise it and think it is abhorrent, and some even act to make things better.

I have been using the following analogy to try & explain how women feel; Imagine someone offered you 10 Maltesers (or whatever chocolate you prefer), but said four out of ten will be poo covered chocolate. Wouldn’t you be wary of ALL of them?

We know not all men are rapists/sexual offenders etc. However, we often don’t know which ones are until it’s too late. Thus I need to be wary of all of them.

Men who cite the “not all men” defence are not helping the conversation, we aren’t blaming all men, but if the overwhelming majority of these crimes are committed by men, then why aren’t more “good” men speaking out against it?

Here in Australia there are several high profile politicians in the news at the moment, as alleged perpetrators of sexual assault. These men in some cases were voted in to power to lead. I don’t have the words to explain how disgusting I find this whole situation. Our PM seemed more outraged that a parliamentary staffer wanked on one of the desks in Parliament House than when a woman was sexually assaulted in the same building. Again... I have no words.

I think on a knee jerk level, people that are generally supportive and seem to get it have been pushed over a line of defensiveness by the curfew idea. They are scared of being punished for the actions of others and losing rationality as a result. At least he seemed to take on board what you both said in response, I'd say that's better than a majority of other men, sadly.

I had something similar op, with my dh. He'd been listening to a Jeremy Vine show discussion. I took it as an opportunity to educate him. I think a lot of men, even good men, take it all very personally. I focused on explaining to him that from the time women reach adulthood they go out with lots of safety rules drummed into them: don't go out alone after dark; don't walk, get a taxi; carry your keys in your hand; cover your drink/ don't leave it unattended; shout fire, not rape if you're attacked etc etc. He genuinely didn't realise this. He did say "well there are some areas I wouldn't be safe walking around after dark" and I replied that as 97% of all violent crime is committed by men, he should be as worried as any woman about the epidemic of male violence that has persisted since time began.

Thing is, he's not a macho man, freely shows his feelings, gets enraged about 10yo overstepping boundaries with 4yo dd when they're playing rough and tumble ("ds, she's said no once, once is enough, get off"), shares all housework, is in every way all about equality and hates to see discrimination or bullying of any kind. He's a good man, a great husband and an amazing father and he regularly takes other men to task about their attitude to women etc.

It's so difficult to have a sensible discussion about this without men spouting "not all men" and I pointed this out to dh. It's not women who need to be standing up and shouting "this is wrong!" It's the good men out there, like my dh and yours op. We need more of those voices on our side - so it's a positive thing if we've managed to educate just two men.

@TheJerkStore

Women do not have an unspoken curfew.

Most women do. Most women feel unsafe going out after dark.

As a woman I find it so depressing to read how we have become this stereotypical hysterical women. Yes we have to be careful, yes there are dangers out there but to make our young women scared of all men is insane.

Calling women hysterical for getting angry about the issue of endemic male violence against women is textbook misogyny.
Women are belittled, sexually harassed, raped and murdered by men every day - this make me angry. It should make everyone angry.

But women in the uk are becoming hysterical in saying it is all men. Yes there are issues that need addressing and having conversations are a must but to say all men is moot point because its not.

As another poster said she would have missed out on enriching connections in her life should she assum all men were going to attack her.

This is what hysteria is blaming all men.

I also see you picked only parts of my comment and left out the bit about the spate of muggings on the elderly by a group of women... Not in the day either in the night time...when we are not being told that all women dare not venture out past dark.

Open conversation is needed but the op should not dismiss or belittle her husbands opinion instead she should take it at as a time to explore the conversation more.

I think it's excellent that as a police officer he has not already scared his daughter into the dangers of people after what he will see and have to deal with day to day.

I just read this as no tall men and was going to say YABU.

But actually it is not all men so YANBU

Does he also think all lives matter?

Its not all men but 97% of women have experienced it.

Btw your daughter is awesome.

OP men are right when they say not all men are violent.

But the vast, overwhelming majority of violent and sexual crime is perpetrated by men, and they have to accept that and help to do something about it.

Perhaps he thinks that that is how you see him? Violent and abusive. Does he want to stay wife a wife and daughter who have such an opinion of him.

It may be a sweeping generalisation describing our society but some people take it personally.

He probably said it because many women are trying to frame the problem as a battle of the sexes, rather than criminals against everyone else.

Dh works in a made dominated industry. In the middle of a blazing row, I pointed out to him that while they would talk about their weekends - going to the zoo, bbqs, mowing lawns etc, no one had ever come in and said “oh well, I shouted at my wife so much that I put her into the foetal position, I told her that she was ugly, I gave her a backhander and now she’s in the hospital with a broken cheekbone “.

Really, no one ever says this. But it still happens.

He couldn’t answer me over that.

The system in the uk is not stacked against us, sure there is room for improvement and discussion but to say it is stacked against us... Is well.. Hysterical.

Have you learnt about what women go through in other countires? We are not second class citizens here in the UK.

But it is his opinion.

@Christmasjoy

The system in the uk is not stacked against us, sure there is room for improvement and discussion but to say it is stacked against us... Is well.. Hysterical.

Have you learnt about what women go through in other countires? We are not second class citizens here in the UK.

Have you been through the system as a woman being attacked?

I saw a comment of Instagram recently that said the reason men were lashing out about all men is because they are looking back at their own past behaviour when they may have witnessed and ignored harassment of women.
Maybe they were pinging bra straps in school, maybe they 'took advantage' of a drunk girl, maybe they laughed along when other guys harassed women. All at a time when it was more 'socially acceptable', but now they have to look back and realise that they were assholes and that their actions weren't innocent and without consequences.

I think as a human being it is only natural to feel defensive when a generalisation puts you in the 'arsehole' bucket and that isn't how you see yourself.

It isn't all men, it is some men, but because those men don't walk around with a big sign above their heads women have to assume it's all men.

There is a difference and I can understand why someone who would never dream of hurting someone may be offended at being tarred with the same brush as those that do (and I say this as someone who was raped by a stranger on a night out)

Perhaps making a big deal out of this 6pm curfew for all men (to the extent that it was raised an discussed in the House of Lords) was not the best idea to get the majority of decent men on our side?

I know what was intended by it, but it was so obviously not going to be taken that way. Why do these things keep being done, it just provides ammo for the misogynists and doesn't help solve the problem.

It is clear that there are many women who do not feel safe put at night. Rather than suggesting (even in just a demonstrative way) that we should lock up all men at night (to give them a taste of their own medicine or something) we should be focussing efforts on engaging and demanding change from those who have the power to improve the situation - the government and the police and the men (and women) in power in those organisations. The reality is that many men are effectively powerless to change violence on our streets, so blaming them is not going to solve the issue and is just going to create and widen divisions.

@INB4

He probably said it because many women are trying to frame the problem as a battle of the sexes, rather than criminals against everyone else.

Because that does absolutely nothing to address how ordinary, non criminal men contribute to this culture every day.

Am I the only one staggered by the irony of the use of the term 'hysterical' in referring to the concerns of women, even here? 'Hysterical', from the womb, pertaining only to women, irrational etc. I can't remember the last time I referred to a man as hysterical, about anything.

@tikatoe yes it seems to be triggering these men. They feel uncomfortable because it makes them look at their own behaviour

Just tell him he's right, not all men. But the point is - how does a woman know whether this man in front of her is one of the ones who will abuse, assault, harass, stalk or rape her, until it happens?

We can't even trust those who are suppose to be there to help us. Most likely to be raped by someone we know. Police have seven times the rate of sexual offenders than other professions.

So until he can find a way for women to identify the bad men, women will continue to be wary of all men.

BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW UNTIL IT'S TOO FUCKING LATE.

Right on OP the sooner we can report these errant family members for wrongthink and re-education the better.
Do you not think relaying this fairly bog standard and uncontroversial conversation as potentially the result of an ‘extremist narrative’ is ridiculous? Reductive even?