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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

My husband says “notallmen”

999 replies

Lastchancesalonco · 25/03/2021 07:18

NC for this! My teenage daughter and I were discussing the current outcry regarding violence against women and women living in fear, my husband entered the room, and immediately said it “wasn’t all men” and now men were “scared to do anything” wtf??? Scared to what exactly? Terrorise women? it’s very relevant I feel that my husband is a police sergeant! And although we do live in a very very low crime area so he doesn’t personally deal with many murders etc it’s mostly petty crime I KNOW he deals with domestic situations and has previously been very vocal about protecting people in domestic situations etc. This is very out of character for him, when pressed he said he felt people were “taking it too far” calling for a “6pm curfew” for men, when my daughter, who I’m ashamed to say was more vociferous than me because I was stunned, pointed out she effectively had an unofficial curfew for safety reasons, he seemed flustered like he hadnt thought of that, then he said “men are scared of attack too” and I said “who from? Who from? Not Denise on her way home pissed from her hen night is it? No it’s MEN you are scared of OTHER MEN” anyway he reflected a bit and was apologetic but I’m worried, he never used to be like this? Is he hearing some extremist narrative at work that poor white middle class men are under attack because the system that gives them every advantage is trying to be dismantled? He works with women and even a transsexual officer and has never shown any sign of prejudice or anything but acceptance for them and up till now never said anything concerning but he literally said “not all men” did we say it was??? I dunno it’s made me a bit sick, and I can’t help but wonder how a man who was previously totally on my wavelength about these things has changed to “but what about me”
Especially when we have a teenage daughter who will be going off to uni soon and won’t be in her safe little village! AIBU to take this so seriously or was he just being a giant selfish man baby and truly sees the error of his ways?

OP posts:
Hobbitytoes · 27/03/2021 16:17

This thread shows that we all have to take responsibility, no one is disputi g that we all have to listen and learn. But, so many posters seem hell bent on defending the rights of men not take responsibility as its not all men.

TheJerkStore · 27/03/2021 16:18

In fairness though Lola tin hat donned what is a man labelled as if he's angry?

There's a whole load of research on gendered language and how it negatively affects girls/women.

Women are bossy
Men are assertive

Women are ball breakers
Men are successful

Women are hysterical or emotional
Men have strong opinions

Male attributes are viewed positively in many aspects of society ( particularly in the workplace ) where are those associated with being female are used negatively against us.

RootyT00t · 27/03/2021 16:19

That's an interesting point.
We want men to challenge men for behaviour they don't agree with but women aren't allowed to challenge other women without all sorts of assumptions being made.

Mittens030869 · 27/03/2021 16:21

@RootyT00t

But I don’t think there is the same pressure on women to be nice to women as there is to be nice to men. Hence the MIL/DIL threads on MN, and the school gate dramas between mums.

RootyT00t · 27/03/2021 16:22

[quote Mittens030869]@RootyT00t

But I don’t think there is the same pressure on women to be nice to women as there is to be nice to men. Hence the MIL/DIL threads on MN, and the school gate dramas between mums.[/quote]
But that's a problem in itself.

Women's behaviour goes unchecked.

mbosnz · 27/03/2021 16:22

So I presume you are speaking out and challenging other white feminists when they don't consider black women in their discussions or when they deride woke people? Because why should I as a man challenge other members of my class if you won't?

It's your choice as to what you do. For me, I don't say 'well, why should I do this, if other's don't' - if it's what I consider is the right thing to do, I do it. I want to actively be part of a progressive solution towards a fairer, safer society for all.

RootyT00t · 27/03/2021 16:24

@mbosnz

So I presume you are speaking out and challenging other white feminists when they don't consider black women in their discussions or when they deride woke people? Because why should I as a man challenge other members of my class if you won't?

It's your choice as to what you do. For me, I don't say 'well, why should I do this, if other's don't' - if it's what I consider is the right thing to do, I do it. I want to actively be part of a progressive solution towards a fairer, safer society for all.

You mean like when feminists point blank refuse to worry about men's issues because why should they?
Robbo94 · 27/03/2021 16:26

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Mittens030869 · 27/03/2021 16:26

@RootyT00t

Yes, it’s a problem in itself, but there are plenty of threads where women’s behaviour can be challenged and is challenged, robustly as well. But that isn’t what this thread is about.

Why are you so reluctant to talk about male violence against women?

mbosnz · 27/03/2021 16:29

As a feminist, I worked a rape crisis counselling line. I was told I was not to provide our services to men who rang in crisis. At this point the crisis line and I parted ways, as I considered this unethical. As a feminist, I very much worry about the impact of toxic masculinity and it's impact on men, including them finding it hard to seek and harder to get, help when in an abusive domestic situation, high suicide rate, and murder rate.

However, respectfully, that is not what this thread is about. Perhaps if that is what is wished to be discussed, then another thread where that is the central focus could be started by those wanting to discuss that particular issue?

Hobbitytoes · 27/03/2021 16:29

I just have to laugh or I'll cry now. Of course women can challenge other woman. Where has it been said that they don't? Ooh, and where are all these feminists who don't care about men?

RootyT00t · 27/03/2021 16:29

[quote Mittens030869]@RootyT00t

Yes, it’s a problem in itself, but there are plenty of threads where women’s behaviour can be challenged and is challenged, robustly as well. But that isn’t what this thread is about.

Why are you so reluctant to talk about male violence against women?[/quote]
For someone reluctant to talk about male violence against women I spend a lot of time reading and discussing.... male violence against women.

Robbo94 · 27/03/2021 16:29

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RootyT00t · 27/03/2021 16:30

@Hobbitytoes

I just have to laugh or I'll cry now. Of course women can challenge other woman. Where has it been said that they don't? Ooh, and where are all these feminists who don't care about men?
There's one upthread whose response to a man who detailed the ways in which he has been violated by women while working as a bouncer was 'but did they rape you?' not one poster challenged it.

And across many threads, anyone daring to even smile in the direction of the NAMALT campaign is told they're an insult to murdered women. In fact I was told that. On this thread.

Chant353 · 27/03/2021 16:31

What most men mean by this statement is that not ALL men are responsible for the choices of a few. Which I believe is a valid point in today’s political climate. Whether or not a guy “calls out” some misogynistic behaviour does not make him accountable for someone else’s actions.

RootyT00t · 27/03/2021 16:31

@mbosnz

As a feminist, I worked a rape crisis counselling line. I was told I was not to provide our services to men who rang in crisis. At this point the crisis line and I parted ways, as I considered this unethical. As a feminist, I very much worry about the impact of toxic masculinity and it's impact on men, including them finding it hard to seek and harder to get, help when in an abusive domestic situation, high suicide rate, and murder rate.

However, respectfully, that is not what this thread is about. Perhaps if that is what is wished to be discussed, then another thread where that is the central focus could be started by those wanting to discuss that particular issue?

People keep saying that, but the thread where someone did raise that issue , the OP was absolutely annihilated and it was taken down in the end..

Re your helpline, that is appalling.

RootyT00t · 27/03/2021 16:32

@Chant353

What most men mean by this statement is that not ALL men are responsible for the choices of a few. Which I believe is a valid point in today’s political climate. Whether or not a guy “calls out” some misogynistic behaviour does not make him accountable for someone else’s actions.
Agreed
mbosnz · 27/03/2021 16:32

Robbo, as a woman, I've stepped into a lot of situations, too, a 5 foot nothing woman! Including a young fella in over his head with my total mess of a neighbour, who we took in and kept safe from what was a very unsafe situation.

We've also been involved with calling the police on a bad DV situation, and felt very sorry for the police when the people involved rounded on them.

No one is under any obligation to step in, that's up to them, and their conscience. The one time I didn't step in, a girl was being beaten up by a group, I was on my own, I didn't have a phone, and I was lost, and couldn't even tell anyone where we were! I still beat myself up, over that one.

Robbo94 · 27/03/2021 16:33

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RootyT00t · 27/03/2021 16:34

My most notable example was a friend of mine who intervened when a man got aggressive with his girlfriend in a bar.

She intervened, the boyfriend didn't. The boy broke her jaw and legged it. The girlfriend? Out with him, leaving my pal on the floor

Robbo94 · 27/03/2021 16:34

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Pan2 · 27/03/2021 16:37

This thread shows that we all have to take responsibility, no one is disputi g that we all have to listen and learn. But, so many posters seem hell bent on defending the rights of men not take responsibility as its not all men.

Yep, that's one of the most miserable parts of this thread, among others:

  • 'but it's not all men - no-one said it was.
  • my son/dad/OH will feel bad due to this - well IF he cant do a leap of imagination and see the perspective informed by women TELLING him the experience, then he will be worse than useless UNTIL he starts listening.
  • whataboutery on female violence and males being hurt - that isn't the topic here, focus?
  • what about the issues of black experience and feminism - the ultimate whataboutery.
  • the mens curfew issue - an attempt for men to see how women feel the need to police themselves - thrown up as a divergent argument.

I mean, what the hell WILL it take to allow us all to focus on the harm caused by men on women?

It's despairing.

RootyT00t · 27/03/2021 16:39

@Pan2

This thread shows that we all have to take responsibility, no one is disputi g that we all have to listen and learn. But, so many posters seem hell bent on defending the rights of men not take responsibility as its not all men.

Yep, that's one of the most miserable parts of this thread, among others:

  • 'but it's not all men - no-one said it was.
  • my son/dad/OH will feel bad due to this - well IF he cant do a leap of imagination and see the perspective informed by women TELLING him the experience, then he will be worse than useless UNTIL he starts listening.
  • whataboutery on female violence and males being hurt - that isn't the topic here, focus?
  • what about the issues of black experience and feminism - the ultimate whataboutery.
  • the mens curfew issue - an attempt for men to see how women feel the need to police themselves - thrown up as a divergent argument.

I mean, what the hell WILL it take to allow us all to focus on the harm caused by men on women?

It's despairing.

I haven't seen anyone saying their relatives will feel bad.

All the are doing is point out that the NAMAlT campaign has some valid points , becuase it does.

Pan2 · 27/03/2021 16:39

yes missed the "you can't expect men to intervene like superman."

Nope, and no-one has asked for that. For us men, the bar being asked for is a lot lower than that, but we seem to be unable to achieve even the most modest goal.

RootyT00t · 27/03/2021 16:40

@Pan2

This thread shows that we all have to take responsibility, no one is disputi g that we all have to listen and learn. But, so many posters seem hell bent on defending the rights of men not take responsibility as its not all men.

Yep, that's one of the most miserable parts of this thread, among others:

  • 'but it's not all men - no-one said it was.
  • my son/dad/OH will feel bad due to this - well IF he cant do a leap of imagination and see the perspective informed by women TELLING him the experience, then he will be worse than useless UNTIL he starts listening.
  • whataboutery on female violence and males being hurt - that isn't the topic here, focus?
  • what about the issues of black experience and feminism - the ultimate whataboutery.
  • the mens curfew issue - an attempt for men to see how women feel the need to police themselves - thrown up as a divergent argument.

I mean, what the hell WILL it take to allow us all to focus on the harm caused by men on women?

It's despairing.

It is related to the topic to talk about the relationship between females and males.

It just doesn't suit the agenda.