Aibu to think that actually we should let the EU keep more vaccines that would have been sent here given their low vaccination rate and our high one.

[Kendodd]

Firstly, the EU have majorly fucked up vaccine deployment, there's no getting around that and no excuse.
But, if people are dying because of a vaccine shortage and vaccine is being sent to us to put into the arms of people very unlikely to die then the vaccine should be rerouted. A few caveats to this, that vaccine should be in people's arms (especially vulnerable people) as fast as possible and not still in shelves. Apparently the US has hundreds of thousands of doses of the AZ vaccine in storage unapproved when it could already be in arms somewhere else in the world.
I also wish the rest of the world would follow our example and delay the second dose to get more people protected. I think the (brilliant) tactic has been overlooked internationally.
This is a global issue and we should take a global view.
So iabu we should get the vaccine we ordered.
Or ianbu they need it more so should deploy it there.

On a purely selfish note shouldn't we want to slow the spread down in the EU as the more it is spreading the more chance of a mutation that will get past the vaccine.

I've read that the UK has put an embargo on exporting some drugs so not sure why that is different to vaccines.

@NoseinBook3

I also think most have forgotten the actions we received from the EU politicians when we were in the grip of the last wave.

No help. Just derision, article 16 and the closure of the ports... as well as the smear campaign against the only NOT FOR PROFIT vaccine.

They wanted to close ports to stop the Kent variant getting into europe. Aren't we about to do something similar to stop the spread from europe?

[quote littlepattilou]@Kendodd

YABVVVU. The EU can bore off. IDGAF about them.

The way they have behaved this past few weeks is DISGUSTING. They get NOTHING from us.[/quote]
exactly @littlepattilou is right we should vaccinate our own cats and dogs before we let the eu have any of our vaccine. they dont want it anyway.

Is nobody else finding the words 'let them die' in this post objectionable?

here

Previous page at 12.08.

we should vaccinate our own cats and dogs before we let the eu have any of our vaccine. they dont want it anyway.
Absolutely charming. I personally don't give a shit when I get mine, we're making slow progress but progress for the elderly and vulnerable they are the most important.
If the situation was reversed I'd never wish the bitter horror on the thread for anyone in the UK.
Afaik people are happy to have any vacine including AZ there was concerns they had to investigate I'm sure the same procedure would have been carried out on any vacine if clots appeared in patients.
It couldn't be ignored even if patients were high risk for clots prior to their injection.

Is nobody else finding the words 'let them die' in this post objectionable?
Well they are dying, about 3,000 people a day. It just sickens me that people seem to be celebrating this and saying they would rather vaccinate out dogs first. I've rarely seen such hatred of sick and dying human beings.

@Kendodd

Is nobody else finding the words 'let them die' in this post objectionable? Well they are dying, about 3,000 people a day. It just sickens me that people seem to be celebrating this and saying they would rather vaccinate out dogs first. I've rarely seen such hatred of sick and dying human beings.

Same. It's vile. I am usually open-minded and try to appreciate other people's points of view, but that is on another level.

(I feel I should confess to having copied and pasted those from the DM comments section to see how long it would be before someone objected - sorry - I was feeling particularly upset by how low MN had sunk recently.) They are genuine thoughts, though not mine, and also sadly clearly believable.

I'm going to leave MN for a bit I think. Sorry again

I rarely get involved in this sort of 'debate', but that has not done me any good and I'm stepping away from this site.

I follow Leave EU on Facebook, and know how some people think. I remember posts on there celebrating toddlers dying in the Med. Shameful what we've because, or perhaps always were.

No, it’s not sensible to suspend a vaccine when there’s a pandemic raging and thousands dying. As one scientist said, it’s like saying if we all run up that hill we will save ourselves from the tsunami that’s coming but actually let’s not as someone might trip and hurt their knee.

Many Europeans still don’t want any type of vaccine so I have very limited sympathy.

Toxicity on SM will go all ways and even on here you get fairly horrendous posts re high death count in U.K. as a stick to bash U.K. with

For DM - Best is to not read it as sends follower numbers up

Whatever is done, no vaccines must be wasted.

OP asks: "Aibu to think that actually we should let the EU keep more vaccines that would have been sent here given their low vaccination rate and our high one."

That's the very reason the EU should NOT 'keep' vaccines that we ordered: we are willing and able and super efficient at using them whereas the EU doesn't want to use them and isn't using them: it would be a waste of good vaccines and a pointless denial of them to us. Because we are so efficient, the faster we get our vaccine order, the faster we can get on with helping out our bordering neighbour Ireland, plus other countries in the world where they have less vaccine and less ability to get it.

@ancientgran From what I’ve read France and some EU countries may go on the red list but I don’t think that stops goods etc it just restricts the movement of people... and even then you can still visit that country if you can afford to quarantine in a hotel on your return.

@Kendodd I agree with you. My brother living in Ireland has type 1 diabetes and would have to wait longer than me to get his jab when I am in my 30s with no underlying health conditions. I don’t think that’s right.

It baffles me that the same people on here screaming for more lockdowns and frothing at the mouth over people going to the supermarket too many times, are probably the same people now saying that we shouldn’t share vaccines.

I agree the EU haven’t covered themselves in glory but ultimately what about actual people?! Those people living in those countries who have very right to be protected like we do.

Can you explain OP why you think we have a greater responsibility to save lives in the EU than here?

When we were leaving the EU, many people said we shouldn’t expect a trade deal with the EU that took our needs into account, as the EU should only be looking after its own interests.

Well poor trade deals also lead to deaths from poverty, and suffering for the U.K. population.

People will say we brought that on ourselves, just as the EU’s poor vaccine planning has brought their current situation on themselves.

We don’t have a greater responsibility to the EU than we do to any other trading block, and they don’t have any greater responsibility to us.

[quote Chazzy19876]@Kendodd I agree with you. My brother living in Ireland has type 1 diabetes and would have to wait longer than me to get his jab when I am in my 30s with no underlying health conditions. I don’t think that’s right.

It baffles me that the same people on here screaming for more lockdowns and frothing at the mouth over people going to the supermarket too many times, are probably the same people now saying that we shouldn’t share vaccines.

I agree the EU haven’t covered themselves in glory but ultimately what about actual people?! Those people living in those countries who have very right to be protected like we do.[/quote]
So you’ve had your vaccine in your 30s?

No wonder you’re ready to give away other people’s.

There are many in late 40s waiting

Such a self interested post

When you move away from the rhetoric that the U.K. and AZ are to blame for all. For which we’ll all suffer when AZ refuse to do this again.

It’s interesting to see the break down between EC and MS discussions and where the incompetence lies. The FT has coverage.

@Kendodd

OP, you appear to be wilfully ignoring all the posts telling you about the millions of jabs the EU are not using?

I'm not. I said in my very first post as long as they were used as fast as possible and later said that I agreed with India having an export ban until they've caught up. I get your wider point about poor countries though. Somebody said something on another thread ages ago that stayed with me. "Brown children die in their millions and nobody gives a shit, old white people dying though, stop the world!"

The title of this thread is Aibu to think that actually we should let the EU keep more vaccines that would have been sent here given their low vaccination rate and our high one. So the topic you raised wan't India, or "brown children", but the EU. (Yes, the poster you're responding too raised other countries/COVAX, but you focussed on the EU.)

So -

Given that the EU vaccination programmes are being hampered by the reluctance of their populations to actually be vaccinated - why do you think the limited supply should go to them? Given that those doses are not actually going to do anything for the EU because they won't actually use them?

Oh, and this was quite an interesting article on Sunday in the Times, about German and French attitudes to healthcare. I found it quite illuminating.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/faith-in-quack-cures-will-undermine-vaccines-95t69dkrg

@thecatsthecats

I think it's a bit above my pay grade to dole out advice on sharing vaccines like a mum arbitrating over a bag of sweets.

But as a businesswoman, I know that you can only make plans for yourself. Not through not caring for others, but because it's simply impossible to plan for everyone else's actions.

I also know that expending effort to deliberately block or undermine someone else's efforts is a waste of energy.

British people are no MORE worthy of the vaccine than others, but they are also no LESS worthy.

If European countries (not the EU) had great vaccine programs ready to roll, only lacking the doses, then maybe there's an argument. But they don't.

Nicely put

YABVU. They’re our vaccines. We took the chance and it paid off.

The EU majorly fucked up and I’ve never been more proud of voting Brexit.

What a disgusting thread. I’m ashamed of what the brexit mentality has done to the UK.